Who sticks out in your mind as the best non-star in NHL history? A guy who had the skill and numbers to be one of the top players in the League, but never a franchise player or never considered "best" at any point in time?
I immediately think of Marian Hossa, a player who at his absolute best was a 101 point two way beast. He could do it all, but he could never quite elevate himself to being considered the best in the NHL, though it's no fault of his that he had to compete with Sakic, Forsberg, Jagr, Iginla, Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin in his prime years.
Ron Francis? Although he might be borderline this is the impression the Hockey Scouting Reports give. I guess he was a franchise player too. Nevermind.
- 6 yr consecutive stretch he averaged 44.8 goals/season
- 2 100+ point seasons
- 1 Lady Byng
- 1 2nd team All-Star
During his NHL tenure he was 6th total in goals scored....among the top 11, he's the only one not in the HoF.
- Dionne
- Gretzky
- Bossy
- McDonald
- Trottier
-- Middleton
- Lafleur
- Goulet
- Perrault
- Shutt
- Kurri
During that 6 year stretch, only Bossy, Gretzky and Dionne scored more goals than him.
Only Gretzky, Bossy, Dionne, Trottier scored more points than him. He was tied in 5th with Federko. Lafleur was behind him.....all in the HoF except for him.
Only Simmer and Gretzky had a better shooting percentage than him.
Only Bossy, Gretzky and Dionne had more Even Strength goals than him. He was tied with McDonald at 4th. He was 6th in PP goals. Tied for 6th in SH goals. 9th in +/-.
Yet he was never considered a true superstar....always a "great" forward but never a superstar.
The first name to come to mind for me is John Tonelli. You wouldn't consider him a superstar, but the thing about him is that you would want him on your team, in a playoff series, over loads of superstar players - even some HHOF players.
The first name to come to mind for me is John Tonelli. You wouldn't consider him a superstar, but the thing about him is that you would want him on your team, in a playoff series, over loads of superstar players - even some HHOF players.
Yeah I was influenced by someone saying Henri Richard that made the bar very high for superstart.
Does Lemaire is in the HOF with no Lafleur playing for an other team ?
I dont know, I agree his name doesnt scream superstar. There were some picks I like: Middleton, Bellows, Desjardins etc. but Richard and Lemaire? HOF cut is a good start to evaluate superstars from regular stars and even then there are some intersting cases:
Lindros and Bure - that would be odd, but Bondra was leading scorer twice and never a face of the league, Zubov - this is definitely a very good choice. Does Kovalev count?
Way too good of a player to be mentioned in this thread. Even Michel Goulet was too good to be an option in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadLuke
Is Johan Franzen a superstars ?
No he isn't at all. But he wasn't the player Tonelli was either. And I am pretty sure by the end of his career there won't be a push for him to get into the HHOF. Tonelli still falls short in my book, but there have been good cases made for him. You won't see that for Franzen.
Ray Whitney
Today I have checked Coyotes scoring and he is their leader in 39 years. This isnt the first time I see him so high and still it's surprise me.
Interesting career.
No he isn't at all. But he wasn't the player Tonelli was either. And I am pretty sure by the end of his career there won't be a push for him to get into the HHOF. Tonelli still falls short in my book, but there have been good cases made for him. You won't see that for Franzen.
But Franzen have about the same amount of playoff goal in less than half the games.
Franzen Playoff: 83 37 35 72
Tonnelli Playoff: 172 40 75 115 (a lot of game in the ends of the 70, early 80 with the highest gbg ever).
Maybe Tonnelli had a lot of intangible to make for the udge gap in offensive production (I was only born in 1984).
Who sticks out in your mind as the best non-star in NHL history? A guy who had the skill and numbers to be one of the top players in the League, but never a franchise player or never considered "best" at any point in time?
Per that definition, it might be Mike Bossy. Was never his team's franchise player and was never the best player in the NHL.
But I really don't think that's what you're trying to get at, since he was clearly one of the biggest superstars of his day.
But Franzen have about the same amount of playoff goal in less than half the games.
Franzen Playoff: 83 37 35 72
Tonnelli Playoff: 172 40 75 115 (a lot of game in the ends of the 70, early 80 with the highest gbg ever).
Maybe Tonnelli had a lot of intangible to make for the udge gap in offensive production (I was only born in 1984).
Intangibles for sure go in Tonelli's favour. So much of what he did never ended up on the scoresheet. But even so, Franzen has never matched Tonelli's best regular seasons.
Even though he had 1500+ career points, Mark Recchi was a journeyman first line forward (nine teams, PIT/PHI twice), and for the most part wasn't considered to be on the level of a Joe Sakic or Paul Kariya.
Ron Francis? Although he might be borderline this is the impression the Hockey Scouting Reports give. I guess he was a franchise player too. Nevermind.
Francis is a great pick. I don't think he was considered a superstar at any point in his career, but he put together a mighty fine career
Even though he had 1500+ career points, Mark Recchi was a journeyman first line forward (nine teams, PIT/PHI twice), and for the most part wasn't considered to be on the level of a Joe Sakic or Paul Kariya.
Another good pick, though I think Francis was a better "nonsuperstar" player
