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Old
03-02-2012, 05:37 PM
  #101
Saugus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
The amount of RIDICULOUS proposals they have to endure is amazing.
It certainly is.

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Originally Posted by Cocoa Crisp View Post
I'm assuming Merrill untouchable in a deal for Schneider?
Not nearly as untouchable as Larsson, but management and the fans are both high on him. Schneider is one of the few players I'd be ok with moving him for, but obviously I have no idea what Lou's thoughts on that are.

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Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
You do realize that the proposal is based on the hypothetical, that Parise will NOT be resigned and will test the FA market, right?

It clearly says, the "rights to Parise" in the proposal. There's a big difference.
It doesn't matter. The inclusion of Larsson immediately makes it a ludicrous proposal.

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Old
03-02-2012, 05:40 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
It doesn't matter. The inclusion of Larsson immediately makes it a ludicrous proposal.
Explain

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Old
03-02-2012, 05:43 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
Explain
The best way to acquire a young #1 defenceman is to draft him. Teams generally do not trade them unless another #1 defenceman is coming back. Larsson is a young #1 defenceman, and he is expected to anchor the Devils' defence for the next several years, therefore he will not be traded. For that and other reasons, your proposal is completely unrealistic.

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Old
03-02-2012, 05:47 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
The best way to acquire a young #1 defenceman is to draft him. Teams generally do not trade them unless another #1 defenceman is coming back. Larsson is a young #1 defenceman, and he is expected to anchor the Devils' defence for the next several years, therefore he will not be traded. For that and other reasons, your proposal is completely unrealistic.
Who would you look to replace Brodeur after retirement?

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03-02-2012, 05:48 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
Who would you look to replace Brodeur after retirement?
I have no idea, and my thoughts on it don't matter, but Schneider is hardly the only option, and if the price for him is Larsson, Lou will correctly look elsewhere.

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03-02-2012, 06:07 PM
  #106
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I have no idea, and my thoughts on it don't matter, but Schneider is hardly the only option, and if the price for him is Larsson, Lou will correctly look elsewhere.
The price for him isn't simply Schnieder. And I'd argue that Lamoriello is smart enough to know that he's the best available, especially for a transition team, which NJ is becoming. The other options out there have inflated stats from playing a trap system and would most likely not do well in NJ like Bryz in Philly.

Also lets say that Parise tests the FA like this proposal suggests, who will you replace him with? The UFA this year isn't offering a lot of options. Getting Booth to fill that void would be a good option.

Throw in Tanev whom looks promising and a potential 1st and I don't see why this is as ludicrous as you suggest.

The potential to lose Parise for nothing has got to at least entertain the idea that Larsson could be had for a package similar to this, no?

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:15 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
I think the offer sheet mentality is so overblown due to the rarity of their occurence. Every year, people say "Will Yandle be offer sheeted? Weber? Parise? Suter? Doughty? Callahan? Schenn?" And every year, those players aren't offer sheeted.

That being said, with the goalie situation in Vancouver, I think this is one of the exceptions. I do believe Schnieder has a very real chance of being sheeted, but not for a huge deal. Perhaps 3 years, decent money. It puts Vancouver into an interesting spot since they won't get a huge deal in return (maybe a 1st + 3rd) but it's also going to force them to hang onto a essentially underused asset with Luongo being the starter.
You still have to get Schneider to sign it, Schneider has built a great reputation for himself and I just don't see Schneider as a type of guy who will sign it,. I'm sure Gillis and him will have a talk after the season and Gillis letting him know that we'll trade him so he can get his shot as the #1. Schneider has been such a team 1st type of guy I don't see him forcing or doing anything to hurt or bring bad blood between him and the Canucks when he's thought of so highly and built a great relationship and respect from the Canucks management team.

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:23 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
The price for him isn't simply Schnieder. And I'd argue that Lamoriello is smart enough to know that he's the best available, especially for a transition team, which NJ is becoming. The other options out there have inflated stats from playing a trap system and would most likely not do well in NJ like Bryz in Philly.

Also lets say that Parise tests the FA like this proposal suggests, who will you replace him with? The UFA this year isn't offering a lot of options. Getting Booth to fill that void would be a good option.

Throw in Tanev whom looks promising and a potential 1st and I don't see why this is as ludicrous as you suggest.

The potential to lose Parise for nothing has got to at least entertain the idea that Larsson could be had for a package similar to this, no?
Chris Tanev as a potential #1D... You're lucky if he becomes a top-4 D.

Just stop. From a neutral perspective, there is nothing in the world that would make NJ downgrade Larsson.

If anything, the idea of losing Parise would make NJ hang onto Larsson even tighter.

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:25 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
That being said, with the goalie situation in Vancouver, I think this is one of the exceptions. I do believe Schnieder has a very real chance of being sheeted, but not for a huge deal. Perhaps 3 years, decent money. It puts Vancouver into an interesting spot since they won't get a huge deal in return (maybe a 1st + 3rd) but it's also going to force them to hang onto a essentially underused asset with Luongo being the starter.
The thing is, 3 years at decent money, the Canucks match... The Canucks can then hold onto him for the year (if I recall correctly, can't trade for a year) and then trade the year or two after... To make cap room for Schneider at decent money isn't an issue...

It's the 1-year deal that would have me concerned... where he becomes an UFA next year, and the Canucks can't trade him in that time... With this said though, my feeling is that Schneider is ready (not only skill wise, but mentally as well - my feeling is that he feels that his apprenticeship gig is over, and he's ready for the full time job) to be a #1 starter next year... I don't think he signs a 1-year deal... Even ignoring the relationship stuff, the chances are the Canucks match (I don't believe the Canucks are going to assume the fetal position and just let Schneider go for nothing, or below what they feel is good value, without a big fight), and Schneider is stuck as the backup yet again for the whole year, without the possibility of being traded in the year...

To me, it's in everybody's interest - the Canucks, the team that wants Schneider the most, and Schneider himself, that a deal be made that moves his rights this summer (and probably early summer to sort things out, probably at the draft)...

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:27 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Chris Tanev as a potential #1D... You're lucky if he becomes a top-4 D.

Just stop. From a neutral perspective, there is nothing in the world that would make NJ downgrade Larsson.

If anything, the idea of losing Parise would make NJ hang onto Larsson even tighter.
Reading comprehension much? Tanev AND a potential 1st

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:42 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
Reading comprehension much? Tanev AND a potential 1st
Sorry, you used "whom" in the wrong context that pointed to something you didn't mean. That was my bad.

But regardless, Tanev will be a #4-5, Booth is a #2 LW, and the first will be 25+. The difference between Larsson + Parise's rights and that package is far more than Schneider, and that, is my point.

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:49 PM
  #112
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This trade proposal made my head hurt a little bit...

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:53 PM
  #113
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Lol I stopped reading when I saw Larsson

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Old
03-02-2012, 06:58 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Sorry, you used "whom" in the wrong context that pointed to something you didn't mean. That was my bad.

But regardless, Tanev will be a #4-5, Booth is a #2 LW, and the first will be 25+. The difference between Larsson + Parise's rights and that package is far more than Schneider, and that, is my point.
Oh you're right, 'whom' magically changed that first 'and' in the sentence into 'as'. Don't blame your poor reading comprehension on a word that has no bearing on what you thought you read.

Tanev might be a 4-5 but has potential to be better then that. He impressed all Canuck fans during the playoffs that year. Booth would be a #1 LW on NJ if he went there. Late first, but still a first. Maybe add in next years 2nd if you don't think it's enough.

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03-02-2012, 07:04 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
Oh you're right, 'whom' magically changed that first 'and' in the sentence into 'as'. Don't blame your poor reading comprehension on a word that has no bearing on what you thought you read.

Tanev might be a 4-5 but has potential to be better then that. He impressed all Canuck fans during the playoffs that year. Booth would be a #1 LW on NJ if he went there. Late first, but still a first. Maybe add in next years 2nd if you don't think it's enough.

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Old
03-02-2012, 07:08 PM
  #116
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If I had a nickel for every trade proposal rejected by Devils fans...

This would never go through though.

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Old
03-02-2012, 07:20 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
Oh you're right, 'whom' magically changed that first 'and' in the sentence into 'as'. Don't blame your poor reading comprehension on a word that has no bearing on what you thought you read.
Clearly you don't know when and when not to used 'whom'. I said my bad, I was just explaining why i misread it.

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Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
Tanev might be a 4-5 but has potential to be better then that. He impressed all Canuck fans during the playoffs that year.
Right now, Tanev is barely an NHLer. He could become a #5-6.

Tanev is a RD. If he really has top-4 or higher potential, then he would have gotten some looks in the top-4 when Salo was out. That's what the Sharks have done with Demers, and Braun.


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Booth would be a #1 LW on NJ if he went there.
This guy would disagree with that



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Originally Posted by canuklehead View Post
Late first, but still a first. Maybe add in next years 2nd if you don't think it's enough.
1) A late first is technically a first, but the 25th-30th pick has about a 33% chance of becoming an career NHLer. Not as valuable as everyone seems to think.

2) There's the obligatory "add a 2nd rounder" that this thread has been missing, pack it up!

Seriously, there are two players that would be worth Larsson to NJ, and a trade involving them would never happen.

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03-02-2012, 07:26 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Right now, Tanev is barely an NHLer. He could become a #5-6.

Tanev is a RD. If he really has top-4 or higher potential, then he would have gotten some looks in the top-4 when Salo was out. That's what the Sharks have done with Demers, and Braun.
Not that it changes anything in regards to this proposal but you're off base here discussing Tanev. He did get a shot with Edler and played quite well. He's 'barely and NHLer' because the organization doesn't want to rush him. He definitely has top 4 upside but needs to gain more strength first.

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03-02-2012, 09:00 PM
  #119
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Not that it changes anything in regards to this proposal but you're off base here discussing Tanev. He did get a shot with Edler and played quite well. He's 'barely and NHLer' because the organization doesn't want to rush him. He definitely has top 4 upside but needs to gain more strength first.
Rush him? The point is that Canucks fans are always complaining about needing more RHD depth, and even though their top defensive prospect who is 22, not a baby, is a RHD, has not gotten an extended look.

But, in regards to my post, I'm sorry, I meant to write #4-5, not #5-6. My typing skills are fleeing me today.

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03-02-2012, 09:10 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Rush him? The point is that Canucks fans are always complaining about needing more RHD depth, and even though their top defensive prospect who is 22, not a baby, is a RHD, has not gotten an extended look.

But, in regards to my post, I'm sorry, I meant to write #4-5, not #5-6. My typing skills are fleeing me today.
Yes, rush him. Gillis is on record saying that Tanev is NHL ready but he would prefer to have him play top pairing minutes in the AHL instead of being the 6/7 defenseman. His AHL coach Craig McTavish is also on record saying Chris is the best defenseman in the AHL, so they're obviously happy with how he's been progressing down there.

We're very happy with Tanev's development over the past two seasons since he signed with the Canucks. He's as close to a certainty to make the roster next season as a prospect can get.

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Old
03-02-2012, 09:39 PM
  #121
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No point in rights to Parise as part of the deal. Instead if there is any major trade, he would be a 2nd trade after and only if NJD can't sign him. Otherwise he'll just hit UFA and try to sign him there. And since that's one of the main points of this deal, this is going no where.

Also it sounds like MB will be back for another year. His recent play as well as his responds sound like he's playing another year. Larsson is also a franchise dman that won't be traded unless he struggles badly next season. To a point where he's demoted... (which is almost impossible). Best bet for 'nucks fan is hope Tanev or Kcon develops into a franchise dman (not likely but much more likely than trading for a young dman who looks like a franchise dman) or just be happy with Elder who is playing like a franchise dman anyways.

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Old
03-02-2012, 11:17 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Right now, Tanev is barely an NHLer. He could become a #5-6.

Tanev is a RD. If he really has top-4 or higher potential, then he would have gotten some looks in the top-4 when Salo was out. That's what the Sharks have done with Demers, and Braun.
As it's been pointed out, MG went on record saying he would rather keep Tanev down playing big minutes as the #1 for the majority of the season, preparing him for the end stretch and playoffs.

He's now in the lineup, and won't be sent back down. I'm not just throwing Tanev into the conversation like a Raymond or something. Canuck fans actually like him and see lots of potential there.


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This guy would disagree with that

My bad I swore Kovi played on the right. Doesn't he and Parise play on the same line? Does Parise take the right then?

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Old
03-03-2012, 12:07 AM
  #123
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As it's been pointed out, MG went on record saying he would rather keep Tanev down playing big minutes as the #1 for the majority of the season, preparing him for the end stretch and playoffs.

He's now in the lineup, and won't be sent back down. I'm not just throwing Tanev into the conversation like a Raymond or something. Canuck fans actually like him and see lots of potential there.
He's definitely like Sharks fans value Demers and Braun. Good chance of being a top-4, hopefully something more.

But, for a player like Larsson, a Demers or a Braun or a Tanev doesn't help much.

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My bad I swore Kovi played on the right. Doesn't he and Parise play on the same line? Does Parise take the right then?
He has, so he can, but he is a LW.

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Old
03-03-2012, 02:13 AM
  #124
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As it's been pointed out, MG went on record saying he would rather keep Tanev down playing big minutes as the #1 for the majority of the season, preparing him for the end stretch and playoffs.

He's now in the lineup, and won't be sent back down. I'm not just throwing Tanev into the conversation like a Raymond or something. Canuck fans actually like him and see lots of potential there.




My bad I swore Kovi played on the right. Doesn't he and Parise play on the same line? Does Parise take the right then?
he does play on the right wing right now.... but naturally hes a left wing.

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Old
03-03-2012, 02:17 AM
  #125
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Don't see Schneider going to Jersey. Tampa or CBJ make the most sense, Tampa more-so than anywhere else and they have a boat load of picks.

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