HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Carey Price: What's he worth?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-06-2012, 07:27 PM
  #201
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
As one of the initiators of this debate on the value of Carey Price, I am truly surprised that there are so many who have doubt that our goalie is a superstar. And here I thought I was in the microscopic minority!

Someone wrote that we should be glad to have Price although he will never be a Dryden or Roy-> that we should be happy that he is above average and therefore deserves the raise that awaits him. This tortures me to no end. Perhaps I've been spoiled by being a witness of many Stanley Cup victories but to me, an "above average" goalie does not leave me satisfied. In the era of parity, an above average goalie gives you nary an advantage and does not deserve the salary consensus that is emerging in this thread.

Many hockey fans can recognize bad goaltending. It's not only giving up goals that could be saved, but the timing of those goals, the body language with which that goalie mocks his own team, the mental ineptitude to allow goals in key moments of a game. We booed Roy in that famous Detroit game because although the team was playing bad, Roy's attitude was poor and one could see that he had given up. Body language. We booed Red Light Racicot because if you ever saw him play, you could feel that he had no idea what he was doing and simply tried to square himself to puck location - possibly the worst goalie I ever saw. These side examples come to mind now in my discussing Price ... I just realized that what I don't like about him is this sense that he is not as mentally even keeled as had been posited from his draft onwards. I've seen him exhibit his emotions subtly and not so subtly but consistently. This of course is a separate topic altogether.

I will stick to my thesis that Price does not merit superstar status, that we should trade him while his perceived value is high or barring that to offer him a salary at a reasonable rate for RFA years alone. I submit that if one wants to use metrics, not to use GAA, save % and the like. Instead, look at body language and try to quantify that. Or try to quantify performance under "stress" i.e. with a one goal lead, with a two goal lead, at a one goal deficit, in shootouts where one's team is at advantage and disadvantage. Like I said before, statistics cannot tell the whole story not because the math is inexact but because we are not measuring the right things or simply cannot. Hence the feeling of a truth.
I still think trading him would be crazy. We have no replacement for him and we'd just be creating one hole to fill another.

Not a superstar? Okay. But I don't know if there really is a superstar goalie in this league anymore. The ones who can consistently put up the numbers and games that Price does though are few and far between. If we deal him I think we'd really regret it.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 07:28 PM
  #202
Ollie Williams
Registered User
 
Ollie Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,916
vCash: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointed Finger View Post
As one of the initiators of this debate on the value of Carey Price, I am truly surprised that there are so many who have doubt that our goalie is a superstar. And here I thought I was in the microscopic minority!

Someone wrote that we should be glad to have Price although he will never be a Dryden or Roy-> that we should be happy that he is above average and therefore deserves the raise that awaits him. This tortures me to no end. Perhaps I've been spoiled by being a witness of many Stanley Cup victories but to me, an "above average" goalie does not leave me satisfied. In the era of parity, an above average goalie gives you nary an advantage and does not deserve the salary consensus that is emerging in this thread.

Many hockey fans can recognize bad goaltending. It's not only giving up goals that could be saved, but the timing of those goals, the body language with which that goalie mocks his own team, the mental ineptitude to allow goals in key moments of a game. We booed Roy in that famous Detroit game because although the team was playing bad, Roy's attitude was poor and one could see that he had given up. Body language. We booed Red Light Racicot because if you ever saw him play, you could feel that he had no idea what he was doing and simply tried to square himself to puck location - possibly the worst goalie I ever saw. These side examples come to mind now in my discussing Price ... I just realized that what I don't like about him is this sense that he is not as mentally even keeled as had been posited from his draft onwards. I've seen him exhibit his emotions subtly and not so subtly but consistently. This of course is a separate topic altogether.

I will stick to my thesis that Price does not merit superstar status, that we should trade him while his perceived value is high or barring that to offer him a salary at a reasonable rate for RFA years alone. I submit that if one wants to use metrics, not to use GAA, save % and the like. Instead, look at body language and try to quantify that. Or try to quantify performance under "stress" i.e. with a one goal lead, with a two goal lead, at a one goal deficit, in shootouts where one's team is at advantage and disadvantage. Like I said before, statistics cannot tell the whole story not because the math is inexact but because we are not measuring the right things or simply cannot. Hence the feeling of a truth.
Trade him to be replaced by who? What about after the RFA years? What can we fall back on if we are forced to downgrade at the goalie position by greedily throwing our young starting goaltender away? We don't have a shining offense to make up for the loss. We also don't have a stellar defense to make up for it. One thing we do have is solid goaltending. I don't think anyone in their right mind would let that go away, not in his RFA years at least.

What if everything you say about him is true? Why would anyone give us anything for Price?

Ollie Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 07:44 PM
  #203
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
With all the second round picks they got this year, they should draft a goalie.
I hate the idea of using high draft picks on goalies, but even I have at least 4 goalies on my "top prospects" list(s) this year as potential "high" draft picks. I agree, if a good pick is going to be burned on the chance to find a good goalie who might eventually succeed Price, this might be the year/draft to do it.

Off that topic, and back to the "worth" of Carey Price, there's no sense in even exploring the trade avenue, imo. At one point they had two goalies playing equally well with bright futures ahead of each of them. That was the one time when there was the luxury of a choice, and the Habs probably made the safe choice (not necessarily the "best", as has been explored on both sides quite extensively to this point). There's no choice anymore - Price was it, and with everyone else who could have been an eventual "contender" (Sanford, Desjardins) shown the door, he's still it. There hasn't been enough time to develop a strong/promising enough backup yet, so best to stick with the best we've got (as long as he's not too expensive), because he is too damn good to trade and hope the return works out better for the Habs in the long run.


Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 03-06-2012 at 07:53 PM.
Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 08:39 PM
  #204
the
Registered User
 
the's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
I really love Carey but man am I starting to wonder if goalies are overrated in general. You put together a team like STL and you can have Budaj starting 60 games and do well.

If Price's demands are outlandish, ie. over 5.5M/yr then I would look to deal him for another decent young goalie and a forward.
That statement really pissed me off,it's really a insult to the amazing work both Halak and Elliot did this season.Next time,watch some games when the blues play instead of magically thinking that the Blues D stops everything and that they don't need a goalie.

the is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 09:13 PM
  #205
dynastyREredux
Where's the Doritos?
 
dynastyREredux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: All over Canada
Posts: 1,246
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to dynastyREredux
Quote:
Originally Posted by the View Post
That statement really pissed me off,it's really a insult to the amazing work both Halak and Elliot did this season.Next time,watch some games when the blues play instead of magically thinking that the Blues D stops everything and that they don't need a goalie.
The difference in Halak's SV% pre and post hitchcock is pretty stunning, even going back to last year. There's no doubt Halak is good and Elliott is pretty good too but both guys have their stats dramatically inflated.

dynastyREredux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 09:13 PM
  #206
KareyPrice
Registered User
 
KareyPrice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 757
vCash: 500
I cant believe people here are for trading Price the kid is 24 I believe and has already done a lot more then what other top goalies have done by their age most goalies hit their prime around 26-27 and we have seen Price play well for the last 2 years who knows how much better he can be. We are talking about a goalie who can play 70ish games and play well it would be crazy to trade him and I think his value is in the 5M range

KareyPrice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 09:26 PM
  #207
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the View Post
That statement really pissed me off,it's really a insult to the amazing work both Halak and Elliot did this season.Next time,watch some games when the blues play instead of magically thinking that the Blues D stops everything and that they don't need a goalie.
Halak's numbers are night and day since Hitch took over. That's not to say he doesn't deserve credit but you can't dismiss the Hitchcock effect.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 09:53 PM
  #208
haburger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,130
vCash: 500
only 3 other goalies reached 100 wins faster than price.to even think about dealing him is beyond moronic.

haburger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:23 PM
  #209
Sports1131
Registered User
 
Sports1131's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Boston/Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,169
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Sports1131 Send a message via MSN to Sports1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Halak's numbers are night and day since Hitch took over. That's not to say he doesn't deserve credit but you can't dismiss the Hitchcock effect.
Halak has certainly benefited from Hitchcock's defensive structure, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in Jaro's October stats. He had a TERRIBLE start to the season -- far below anything he's ever done at any level -- and has since been one of the best in the NHL.

Maybe his overall stats wouldn't be quite as impressive without the coaching change, but I have absolutely no doubt his numbers would have been trending significantly upwards. To believe otherwise would mean you think he's one of the worst goalies in the league (which he was for the first six games) but I don't think anyone could make that claim.

I still think Halak is the better goalie, but I'm not completely convinced at this point. I just think people are giving far too much weight to a six-game stretch and overlooking what has otherwise been a fantastic season.

Sports1131 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:26 PM
  #210
the
Registered User
 
the's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Halak's numbers are night and day since Hitch took over. That's not to say he doesn't deserve credit but you can't dismiss the Hitchcock effect.
I think that even whitout Hitchcock Jaro could probably have the same amount of success he's having right now.With that being said,I understand where people are coming from and can't deny that Hitchcock's system is helping Jaroslav a bit but to say that Budaj could do the same job is unfair to the amazing work that both Jaro and Elliot are doing for St-louis.

the is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:50 PM
  #211
BadHabit
Registered User
 
BadHabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,583
vCash: 500
Magnets: How do they work?

BadHabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:52 PM
  #212
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by price131 View Post
The difference in Halak's SV% pre and post hitchcock is pretty stunning, even going back to last year. There's no doubt Halak is good and Elliott is pretty good too but both guys have their stats dramatically inflated.
His GAA has been positively affected by the coaching/system change that took place, that's for sure. His SV% is almost exactly what it was the year we traded him, though. Over the long haul, he has proven to be at least as good as advertised when St.Louis picked him up. The extra shutouts have certainly helped the ol' SV%, but at least give him credit for successfully posting those shutouts, and let's also recognize the 7 losses he got posting a SV% of 0.920 or better in the game. Used to read a lot of QQ's when that was happening to Price so often.

The funniest part about all of this, is that I was told at the time that Montreal was a better team than St.Louis, and that playing for them against the big, tough Western conference was going to be the end of Halak. Focus enough on building the right team, and who technically has the better goalie between you and your opponent can easily become academic.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 10:55 PM
  #213
Guess
Registered User
 
Guess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Brossard, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 273
vCash: 500
Carey Price is worth more than Halak at this point, I would say. But if you don't include their ages, Halak would definitely be worth more.

Pros:
-He's big and quick
-Solid positional play

Cons:
-Doesn't block corners properly
-Inconsistency ala Theodore

Halak:

-Extremely agile
-Blocks corners excellently
-Consistent
-Weakness is top corners

Guess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 11:00 PM
  #214
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
His GAA has been positively affected by the coaching/system change that took place, that's for sure. His SV% is almost exactly what it was the year we traded him, though. Over the long haul, he has proven to be at least as good as advertised when St.Louis picked him up. The extra shutouts have certainly helped the ol' SV%, but at least give him credit for successfully posting those shutouts, and let's also recognize the 7 losses he got posting a SV% of 0.920 or better in the game. Used to read a lot of QQ's when that was happening to Price so often.

The funniest part about all of this, is that I was told at the time that Montreal was a better team than St.Louis, and that playing for them against the big, tough Western conference was going to be the end of Halak. Focus enough on building the right team, and who technically has the better goalie between you and your opponent can easily become academic.
His save percentage last season was .910. And he was horrible this year until Hitch showed up. Again, I think he would've turned it around anyway but there's no doubt that Hitch has been a huge help.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 11:02 PM
  #215
Lafleurs Guy
Registered User
 
Lafleurs Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 20,346
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sports1131 View Post
Halak has certainly benefited from Hitchcock's defensive structure, but I don't put a whole lot of stock in Jaro's October stats. He had a TERRIBLE start to the season -- far below anything he's ever done at any level -- and has since been one of the best in the NHL.

Maybe his overall stats wouldn't be quite as impressive without the coaching change, but I have absolutely no doubt his numbers would have been trending significantly upwards. To believe otherwise would mean you think he's one of the worst goalies in the league (which he was for the first six games) but I don't think anyone could make that claim.

I still think Halak is the better goalie, but I'm not completely convinced at this point. I just think people are giving far too much weight to a six-game stretch and overlooking what has otherwise been a fantastic season.
I think he would've turned around too. But he'd be nowhere near as good as his numbers are now. Both he and Elliott's numbers are absolutely ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the View Post
I think that even whitout Hitchcock Jaro could probably have the same amount of success he's having right now.With that being said,I understand where people are coming from and can't deny that Hitchcock's system is helping Jaroslav a bit but to say that Budaj could do the same job is unfair to the amazing work that both Jaro and Elliot are doing for St-louis.
Better? Sure. As good as they are now? No way. Hitch does this wherever he goes. He's a goaltender's dream.

Lafleurs Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 11:15 PM
  #216
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
His save percentage last season was .910. And he was horrible this year until Hitch showed up. Again, I think he would've turned it around anyway but there's no doubt that Hitch has been a huge help.
The whole team, particularly the defense (especially on special teams), was playing horribly until Hitch showed up, if we're honest. Halak also had a really good game in the 2-1 loss to the Wild before Payne was fired, and really only had 3 "bad" games in the other 7 he started at the beginning of the season (pulled once). Also, dunno how much of a part it played, but they also had back-to-back 4 game road trips to start the year. Made for a tough first 13 games for Davis Payne and the Blues.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-06-2012, 11:22 PM
  #217
Poulet Kostopoulos
Registered User
 
Poulet Kostopoulos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haburger View Post
only 3 other goalies reached 100 wins faster than price.to even think about dealing him is beyond moronic.
And in front of a mediocre defense in most times and lately, a disgusting one.

"beyond moronic" is one of the traits of this fanbase.


Last edited by Poulet Kostopoulos: 03-06-2012 at 11:28 PM.
Poulet Kostopoulos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:08 AM
  #218
Perrah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
His GAA has been positively affected by the coaching/system change that took place, that's for sure. His SV% is almost exactly what it was the year we traded him, though. Over the long haul, he has proven to be at least as good as advertised when St.Louis picked him up. The extra shutouts have certainly helped the ol' SV%, but at least give him credit for successfully posting those shutouts, and let's also recognize the 7 losses he got posting a SV% of 0.920 or better in the game. Used to read a lot of QQ's when that was happening to Price so often.

The funniest part about all of this, is that I was told at the time that Montreal was a better team than St.Louis, and that playing for them against the big, tough Western conference was going to be the end of Halak. Focus enough on building the right team, and who technically has the better goalie between you and your opponent can easily become academic.
You realize his sv % was under .900 before hitchcock and was a whopping .910 (which is below avg on some scales people use on this board to judge other goalies) last year after that great start right? The blues became the big tough team in the west. There is a reason they give up less than 2 goals a game and I am curious what the number is just under hitchcock.

Hell in half the games he plays they have to jazz up routine saves to get him in the highlights on sportscenter.

Build a team the right way is correct but saying halak hasnt immensely benefited from the hitchcock system is a touch ridiculous.

Perrah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:34 AM
  #219
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the View Post
That statement really pissed me off,it's really a insult to the amazing work both Halak and Elliot did this season.Next time,watch some games when the blues play instead of magically thinking that the Blues D stops everything and that they don't need a goalie.
So they magically became amazing the minute Hitchcock was hired? Elliott is the same guy Ottawa ran out of town last year because he was brutal. Halak was very mediocre last year. It's quite a coincidence that both are suddenly "amazing".

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:37 AM
  #220
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guess View Post
Carey Price is worth more than Halak at this point, I would say. But if you don't include their ages, Halak would definitely be worth more.

Pros:
-He's big and quick
-Solid positional play

Cons:
-Doesn't block corners properly
-Inconsistency ala Theodore

Halak:

-Extremely agile
-Blocks corners excellently
-Consistent
-Weakness is top corners
Price is no more inconsistant than Halak. He hasn't had a great year but has been one of our better players.

I think on the open market Price has at least 50% more value than Halak if both were available for trade.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:40 AM
  #221
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Price is no more inconsistant than Halak. He hasn't had a great year but has been one of our better players.

I think on the open market Price has at least 50% more value than Halak if both were available for trade.
... says the person who calls himself "Carey Price".

You haven't a clue what anyone's value is, least of all someone whom you've named yourself after.

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:45 AM
  #222
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
You realize his sv % was under .900 before hitchcock and was a whopping .910 (which is below avg on some scales people use on this board to judge other goalies) last year after that great start right? The blues became the big tough team in the west. There is a reason they give up less than 2 goals a game and I am curious what the number is just under hitchcock.

Hell in half the games he plays they have to jazz up routine saves to get him in the highlights on sportscenter.

Build a team the right way is correct but saying halak hasnt immensely benefited from the hitchcock system is a touch ridiculous.
First bolded point: it was 6 games.

Second bolded point: That is both selling Halak short, and having no appreciation for goalies who make things look easy.

You can't find me anywhere on here saying that the entire team isn't benefiting from the coaching change. In fact, you'll find me directly suggesting otherwise. But realize that the bulk of how Hitchcock's system affects Halak is through reducing the number of quality chances (even at their "worst", the Blues weren't giving up lots of shots, just lots of ridiculously high quality chances), not some kind of administered skill/performance-enhancing serum.

Halak is still doing what he did best here (and better than Price, I submit), and that's stop the first shot. Tidying up after those is affected by an improved system and more motivated work from the players, and the Blues are doing a better job of that among other things, but it also a secondary concern to your goalie being able to make the first save.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:56 AM
  #223
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
... says the person who calls himself "Carey Price".

You haven't a clue what anyone's value is, least of all someone whom you've named yourself after.
Do you actually have anything intelligent to add or just want to post garbage?

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:59 AM
  #224
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
First bolded point: it was 6 games.

Second bolded point: That is both selling Halak short, and having no appreciation for goalies who make things look easy.

You can't find me anywhere on here saying that the entire team isn't benefiting from the coaching change. In fact, you'll find me directly suggesting otherwise. But realize that the bulk of how Hitchcock's system affects Halak is through reducing the number of quality chances (even at their "worst", the Blues weren't giving up lots of shots, just lots of ridiculously high quality chances), not some kind of administered skill/performance-enhancing serum.

Halak is still doing what he did best here (and better than Price, I submit), and that's stop the first shot. Tidying up after those is affected by an improved system and more motivated work from the players, and the Blues are doing a better job of that among other things, but it also a secondary concern to your goalie being able to make the first save.
Halak is just more mentally strong... And ever will be.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:40 AM
  #225
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,475
vCash: 500
If you think we're in trouble because of putting the wrong value on a goalie, look at the 2010 and 2011 Flyers off-seasons!

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.