We've got the Suter thread up and running so why not discuss Detroit's other possible marquee target in the off-season.
Here we have in Parise a superstar goal scorer and forward who is presently in the prime of his career. Now, Parise is coming off injuries last season but is this year, on pace for a very respectable 30 goals and 60-65 points.
I would certainly think, if he stays healthy, that having Uncle Pavel as a new line-mate could only improve his chances at scoring even more goals. With Pavel as a line-mate I would expect 35-40 goals from Parise and somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-70 points for at least the next three to four, possibly five seasons. I am unsure what type of contract in-terms of length he would want. But ideally for me, six years at 7-7.5 a season is the contract I might look to sign him at.
six years at 7-7.5 a season is the contract I might look to sign him at.
Your thoughts?
it would be good for the next 2 years then you would see people turn on him and say he is over payed and that we should trade for a 1st round pick
but seriously if he would sign for that i would be pumped
Anything at around 7 to 7.5 million of a cap hit sounds right. Though if it is 8 to 8.25 for a shorter contract that'd be fine as well. One of my favorite non-Wing players, he works hard, is a leader, and above all is not a bad guy.
He is probably worth less than Suter simply because legit 1# defensemen are ultra-rare, even more so because Suter's best years are still ahead of him.
Not to knock Parise though, he is one hell of a player and the Wings would be really, really lucky to pick him up. A line of Z-Pav-Parise would make probably be the best line in hockey for the foreseeable future, though Z is probably going to play center on the second line due to the lack of depth there with Fil playing Wing. (Even though Parise plays left wing, I think he could manage if he had Z and Pav feeding him the puck.)
For the longest time I've been on Plan A. Suter than Plan B. Parise camp.
Now I'm warming up to the idea of Plan A. Parise, Plan B Suter.
If Suter hits UFA he will command at least 1~2M more than Parise (top 10 D is much more rare than top 20 winger)
I think we can do D by committee approach (all 3 lines sharing similar minuts)
Kronwall - White
Q - E
Kindl - Smith/UFA
Yes, much worse than this year but I think it's do able especially if we sign top 4 caliber D. The main point is our D is much younger(only Kronwall is over 30) than our top 6 forwards. We need a young core top 6 forward.
Datsyuk is 33, Z is 31, Franzen is 32. Only young top 6 forward we have is Flip. I'm assuming letting Hudler go if we sign Parise. Yes, we have way more forward prospects than D, but I think Parise can keep our top 6 great until the younger players can develop in AHL and NHL.
Anything at around 7 to 7.5 million of a cap hit sounds right. Though if it is 8 to 8.25 for a shorter contract that'd be fine as well. One of my favorite non-Wing players, he works hard, is a leader, and above all is not a bad guy.
He is probably worth less than Suter simply because legit 1# defensemen are ultra-rare, even more so because Suter's best years are still ahead of him.
Not to knock Parise though, he is one hell of a player and the Wings would be really, really lucky to pick him up. A line of Z-Pav-Parise would make probably be the best line in hockey for the foreseeable future, though Z is probably going to play center on the second line due to the lack of depth there with Fil playing Wing. (Even though Parise plays left wing, I think he could manage if he had Z and Pav feeding him the puck.)
Maybe, maybe not. I see him going for the same price as Suter. A player like Parise is hard to come by as well. Good two-way player, perennial 30+ goal scorer (hasn't scored less than 31 goals since his rookie season) with the potential for 40, maybe even 50 if he plays with Dats+Z.
I agree with everyone above. 7-7.5M cap hit with 9M/year for a length of time.
Maybe, maybe not. I see him going for the same price as Suter. A player like Parise is hard to come by as well. Good two-way player, perennial 30+ goal scorer (hasn't scored less than 31 goals since his rookie season) with the potential for 40, maybe even 50 if he plays with Dats+Z.
I agree with everyone above. 7-7.5M cap hit with 9M/year for a length of time.
I'm just going with how much teams have been paying for defensemen in FA and in trades(White was a total steal IMO).
I believe that defense is at a premium right now, and while confirmed 30 goal scorers, under 30 no less, are few and very far between, there is just more of them than legit #1 Defensemen.
However, I'd rather have Parise right now because he could be had for probably a bit less, and what this top 6 needs more than size is a consistent goal scorer. Franzen and Hudler are inconsistent, Bert is just there,and Fil, Dats, Z are all more of the play-maker mold. Interject a player who is a hard working, two-way, goal scorer and the top 6 looks much better(with Hudler leaving to make bank as a FA):
Parise-Dats-Bert
Fil-Z-Franzen
Though if Nick retires, Suter becomes a much higher priority.
basically same as suter, but if one is not available, the other becomes more valuable.
I'm not sure missing out on one makes the other more valuable at least not in Parise's case.
If we miss out on Suter, the next best UFA defenceman is a big step down so we'd probably be relying on Lidstrom coming back or D by committee. If we miss out on Parise there are still options that aren't quite as good but would also be slightly or in some cases considerably cheaper.
Semin, Doan, Penner, Jagr, and Selanne are all potential UFA's providing they don't retire or re-sign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84
7 yrs for 48 million. I'd rather trade for Nash though.
Why give up assets for a player that is worse than the guy we can get for just cash?
Other than being bigger, I'm not sure there is anything Nash is better at than Parise. If Parise would take the 48 million you suggested he'd also be a million a year cheaper than Nash.
7 yrs for 48 million. I'd rather trade for Nash though.
Why? Parise will be UFA so he won't cost any assets. Yes his deal might be a bit worse but we don't have to give good young roster player + 2 great prospects + 1st rounder
I understand trying to acquire Nash if Parise/Suter are gone but if not I will go for UFA route first
I prefer Nash and believe he's the superior talent. I also don't think Parise is coming here. Would rather trade a player like Flip that will demand 5 million plus on the market and some unproven prospects. This is all hypothetical of course.
I prefer Nash and believe he's the superior talent. I also don't think Parise is coming here. Would rather trade a player like Flip that will demand 5 million plus on the market and some unproven prospects. This is all hypothetical of course.
What about Nash is superior to Parise other than his measurables? Parise out performs him in virtually every category. Having seen that he is all the way back from his knee ailment, i am much more comfortable going after Parise and he cost nothing to get except money. I likewise think it will be a tall order to actually get him, because Suter should be our priority.
Last edited by The Zetterberg Era: 03-03-2012 at 02:05 AM.
I would take Parise over Suter only because A) I think Lidstrom is coming back next year and B) I think Weber will bolt for UFA next summer. But even if Weber isn't a UFA next year, that class is still much better than this one (Enstrom, Edler, and Vlasic to name a few) and we'll know more about our young guys like Kindl and Smith.
So my quasi-realistic theory for how this summer goes down sounds like this....
After this year Homer walks off in to the sunset.
We let Stuart and Hudler walk. We resign Helm for <2mil, and Abby for ~1.2mil.
We convince Nick to stick around for one more year for a reduced salary, so 1yr at 5 mil.
July 1st rolls around and we call Parise and offer an 12 year $90million dollar deal (Breakdown: 12+12+12+9+9+9+7+7+7+2+2+2, Cap hit =7.5/yr). I think and hope he would accept that offer. If not then I go negotiate the same type of deal with Suter, and fill the hole with a good free agent option (I also like Grabovski alot) or fill from within with Nyquist or Tatar.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m)
Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)
Drew Miller ($0.837m) / Darren Helm ($1.912m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)
Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.250m)
/ / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m)
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.750m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Jakub Kindl ($0.883m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Joey MacDonald ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,567,044; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $732,956
7 yrs for 48 million. I'd rather trade for Nash though.
You'd rather give up assets for a more expensive (and not necessarily a better) player?
Aside from injuries, Parise would be a great addition. Nash is a big body and has excellent skill but I'd worry less about what's between the ears with Parise than with Nash.
as i predicted and 100% guarnteed, this whole nash-saga would become exactly like the dany heatley fiasco of a few years ago and the minute howson went public with nash's desire to be moved it became just that.
a young power forward recently signed to a long term deal with a cap hit of 7.5million, with a NTC and a very specific list of teams he would be willing to go to, player asks for trade, media made full aware of it,GM lost all leverage and bryan murray was already quoted as saying so.
their is 0% chance nash starts next season as a blue jacket, its now a toxic enviroment for lack of a better word.
i am going to again predict the asking price and the actual return for nash will be about half of what people on hf boards think.
nobody, i mean nobody, predicted heatley would bring back just michalek and thats all he did.
as i predicted and 100% guarnteed, this whole nash-saga would become exactly like the dany heatley fiasco of a few years ago and the minute howson went public with nash's desire to be moved it became just that.
a young power forward recently signed to a long term deal with a cap hit of 7.5million, with a NTC and a very specific list of teams he would be willing to go to, player asks for trade, media made full aware of it,GM lost all leverage and bryan murray was already quoted as saying so.
their is 0% chance nash starts next season as a blue jacket, its now a toxic enviroment for lack of a better word.
i am going to again predict the asking price and the actual return for nash will be about half of what people on hf boards think.
nobody, i mean nobody, predicted heatley would bring back just michalek and thats all he did.
You could be right, but Heatley's value was diminished further by him "vetoing" a trade to Edmonton, that would have netted Ottawa a better return.
Its possible Nash would do the same since he has that right, but only time will tell.
Columbus isn't going to do us any favors though, even if his price drops we'll probably have to offer more than any non-divisional team to land him.
I prefer Nash and believe he's the superior talent. I also don't think Parise is coming here. Would rather trade a player like Flip that will demand 5 million plus on the market and some unproven prospects. This is all hypothetical of course.
Nash has a little more talent, not a lot. And what little Parise is missing to equal his talent, he more than makes up for in effort, defensive play and tenacity. Unlike Nash, who can't set up a play and floats on defense. I'd rather have Parise any day.
Nash has a little more talent, not a lot. And what little Parise is missing to equal his talent, he more than makes up for in effort, defensive play and tenacity. Unlike Nash, who can't set up a play and floats on defense. I'd rather have Parise any day.
wasnt nash used in a checking role in the 2010 Olympics and wasnt that canada's best line?
i think Nash's defensive abilities are for the most part over-looked or his shortcomings exaggerated.
If we were able to get any of these 3 (tho I think getting Nash is unlikely) it would improve the wings for years. In an article recently (sorry my memory is bad) it speculated that Parise & Suter are great friends and may want to go somewhere as a package deal. Highly unlikely, but wow if there is any truth to it.
wasnt nash used in a checking role in the 2010 Olympics and wasnt that canada's best line?
i think Nash's defensive abilities are for the most part over-looked or his shortcomings exaggerated.
Nash got 1st line minutes during the Olympics, he had more minutes as a forward than anyone not named Crosby.
Even with all that ice time there were only 3 forwards on the entire roster with less points than him, (Thornton, Bergeron and Morrow) and he also managed to pull off the 3rd worst +/- on the whole team.
He's had some good performances at WC's but the Olympics weren't really his shining moment.
