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Death to the Undertaker....The all purpose Fire McPhee thread

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Old
03-11-2012, 11:29 AM
  #276
BTCG
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Originally Posted by Raikkonen View Post
Those Red Wings who might realistically face Nashville in the first round and lose?
It's a testament to them, and it really says something about their drafting, that there is still a player or 2 from that era on that team still playing... all these years later.

Given the fact that Lidstom may retire after this season, I'd watch the Wings closely during this years SCP.

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03-11-2012, 11:36 AM
  #277
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Yzerman did change his game.

And yes, that change was an important factor.

But the truth is, it was just one of many changes the Wings made that turned things around.

They also went out and got Scotty Bowman to coach.

The entire team embraced a defenceive system, and just as big a change as Yzerman becoming a 2-way player, was Paul Coffey being shown the door.

The addition of Brendan Shanahan was also a key change.

AND... the addition of Mike Vernon between the pipes made a huge difference.



Let's just look at Yzerman. I don't make this statement as a homer fan. I honestly believe it: Yzerman was a much better player than AO ever was, or ever will be.

AO does not have the ability to change his game in the manner that Stevie Y did.

My point as to GMGM's drafting is a very important point: George McPhee does not value 2-way forwards, and this lack is a glaring hole in the Cap's armour.

IMO: Ted needs to hire a good hockey analyst to come in and appraise the team, and make changes from that level... on.
AO's story is not finished just yet.

I surely believe he can become a better player. He is just 26 years old.

Both were great goal scorers, Yzerman a better passer/playmaker, Ovechkin much much more physical.

Again back in 94 it was WIDELY believed Yzerman was "selfish" and couldn't change his game. In hindsight those experts were wrong. At the time tho, in their defence, there was no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Sometimes you just have to believe in a player as a GM and fan. I see too many people jumping off the AO bandwagon. I am not one of them.

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Old
03-11-2012, 12:00 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
AO's story is not finished just yet.

I surely believe he can become a better player. He is just 26 years old.

Both were great goal scorers, Yzerman a better passer/playmaker, Ovechkin much much more physical.

Again back in 94 it was WIDELY believed Yzerman was "selfish" and couldn't change his game. In hindsight those experts were wrong. At the time tho, in their defence, there was no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Sometimes you just have to believe in a player as a GM and fan. I see too many people jumping off the AO bandwagon. I am not one of them.



Let me say this: it's nice to talk hockey with someone who knows the game inside & out, as you do.

But there are many, MANY more issues with the Caps, other than AO.

BUT... let's finish up AO.

Yes, AO is more physical. But that is pretty much the only edge I'd give him over #19.
Let's not forget: Yzerman became not only a 2-way forward. He became a Selke award winning forward.

I'll never forget watching his last Cup performances. He led that Red Wing's team to the Stanley Cup literally, on "1" leg.

Over the last few months of that season, it was one of the most incredible atheletic performances I've ever witnessed.

The heart, passion, pride, and skill he displayed was something I've never seen equalled.

So, it's really not fair to AO to compare him to Steve Yzerman.

But back to the team: IMHO, the league is pretty much these days, a 2 line league.

You need at least 2 solid lines to prevail in the league at this time.

The Caps, at best, have a line and a half.

So to me, this is the biggest indictment of GMGM that I see. To fail to make the moves to acquire the players we needed is just inexcusable.

The D is.... well, what else is new? As you noted, quite correctly, Tinordi remains, unreplaced, all these years later.

You're aware of my defenceive equation of balance: for every offenceive D man you have, you need at least 2 stay at home types. This has been out of balance.... for years.

The goaltending... well, it's still inadaquate, but frankly, has been better over the past few years than it was for a long time. And truth be told, the improved goaltending has had more to due with this teams improvement over the past few years than anything else. But, we can discuss this more.... later.

The coaching remains inadaquate. I'm convinced that DE was retained because he's running a lot of the show, behind the scenes, while the Caps do the Wizard of Oz in the front:

"PAY NO ATTENTION to the man behind the curtain...."

It's been proven to me countless times... that teams tend to revert to their season form when the going gets tough during the playoffs.

I'm afraid that that is our future, should we be lucky enough to make it down the road a bit in the playoffs.


Last edited by BTCG: 03-11-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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Old
03-11-2012, 12:09 PM
  #279
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Again its easy to look at Yzerman's body of work while Ovechkin's is not complete.

I don't give Yzerman the edge in goal scoring tho. If anything Ovy would have that.

I agree with you about GMGM's neglect of the D. That has to change. But we do have a better deeper D this year than in years past.

Our goaltending hasn't been up to snuff this year but both goalies have it in them to step up.

Without Backstrom we clearly are hurting up front. Next year we will have Kuznetsov hopefully.

I'm not ready to write off GMGM, Ovechkin or the Caps team just yet. I stand by my prediction..we make the playoffs as an 8 seed and we upset whoever we face. Then the snowball will start rolling downhill.

I don't agree with the regular season/playoff thing you have...

Too many times (Caps in 90 for instance) have I seen teams with mediocre reg season step up in the playoffs. The North Stars in 91 are an example too..

All we need is a bit of confidence and I think most here will be shocked at what they see.

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03-11-2012, 12:13 PM
  #280
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Some huge differences between those Red Wings and these Caps:
1. Bowman
2. A GM that built up a talented team but was also not afraid to make big moves, e.g. Coffey.
3. Center depth. Yzerman, Fedorov, Larionov = holy cow

The Caps are all kinds of unbalanced right now -- no center depth, too young/no leader on D, franchise player not meshing with the team game, etc. But it's not really the players that a lot of fans are worried about -- it's the holy trinity of owner/GM/coach. They have been pretty good at developing assets, but there's no evidence that they know how to put a winner together.

As far as the Ovi bandwagon.. I think his contract is too damn huge and risky to expect people to calmly weather a spectacular drop-off in performance. If he can recover, that's great. But if he can't, the team might be screwed for a decade. Hard to blame the fans from being pretty distraught about that..

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03-11-2012, 12:29 PM
  #281
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I want to separate these quotes, as I think we're going a bit off-topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Again its easy to look at Yzerman's body of work while Ovechkin's is not complete.

I don't give Yzerman the edge in goal scoring tho. If anything Ovy would have that.
I think you have a vision of AO... but frankly, even if we play devil's advocate and accept it, the fact is: he hasn't been that player in a few years, now. Hard to understand too: he only plays on half the ice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I agree with you about GMGM's neglect of the D. That has to change. But we do have a better deeper D this year than in years past.
Now I'm confused. The D cannot change. We're past the deadline.

Deeper? Until yesterday, he wasn't playing his depth. It's one thing to keep guys like Knuble and HamerL... but why keep em if you don't play them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Our goaltending hasn't been up to snuff this year but both goalies have it in them to step up.


Without Backstrom we clearly are hurting up front. Next year we will have Kuznetsov hopefully.

I'm not ready to write off GMGM, Ovechkin or the Caps team just yet. I stand by my prediction..we make the playoffs as an 8 seed and we upset whoever we face. Then the snowball will start rolling downhill.


I don't agree with the regular season/playoff thing you have...

Too many times (Caps in 90 for instance) have I seen teams with mediocre reg season step up in the playoffs. The North Stars in 91 are an example too..

All we need is a bit of confidence and I think most here will be shocked at what they see.

Look, I love ya bro, but half your post dwells on hope, while the other half seems to be conceeding the season. Worse, you don't dare look beyond the very near future.

That's what McPhee has done to you.... and I'm sorry, but lingering on the exception (like the 91 North Stars) instead of having the confidence to embrace a future based on us making our own breaks speaks volumes as to how lost this franchise and its fans are right now.

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Old
03-11-2012, 01:09 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
Some huge differences between those Red Wings and these Caps:
1. Bowman
2. A GM that built up a talented team but was also not afraid to make big moves, e.g. Coffey.
3. Center depth. Yzerman, Fedorov, Larionov = holy cow

The Caps are all kinds of unbalanced right now -- no center depth, too young/no leader on D, franchise player not meshing with the team game, etc. But it's not really the players that a lot of fans are worried about -- it's the holy trinity of owner/GM/coach. They have been pretty good at developing assets, but there's no evidence that they know how to put a winner together.

As far as the Ovi bandwagon.. I think his contract is too damn huge and risky to expect people to calmly weather a spectacular drop-off in performance. If he can recover, that's great. But if he can't, the team might be screwed for a decade. Hard to blame the fans from being pretty distraught about that..
Imo, getting rid of Cheveldae and tinkering with their goalies helped Detroit along with getting Draper and Maltby. I like Draper a lot on the Jets. At the time he was a throw in for the Essensa trade. Essensa didn't work out too great, but they addressed it by getting Vernon. They made the trades to address their positional needs and weaknesses to go with their younger, drafted players.

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Old
03-11-2012, 04:53 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by artilector View Post
Some huge differences between those Red Wings and these Caps:
1. Bowman
2. A GM that built up a talented team but was also not afraid to make big moves, e.g. Coffey.
3. Center depth. Yzerman, Fedorov, Larionov = holy cow

All 3. Absolutely.

Creating a dynasty like that is like creating a great painting, a great novel or a great song in the sense that everything you do matters.

In a great novel, every metaphor will be precise. Every character will be logically consistent. Every artistic choice is critical. See Dostoevsky for a great (Russian) example.

Or think of Steve Jobs at Apple. He obsessed over every detail inside and outside on the Mac, the iPhone and iPad.

A hockey GM has to be like that. You can't make many blunders. The Laich contract was a blunder (too much money for an average player--utility infielder). Nylander was a blunder. Joel Ward was a blunder. Varly was a blunder. Neuvy is a blunder. Corvo, Belanger were blunders in that they were passive trades. Too small.

Ovie has been beautiful and I'm still a believer. Backstrom and Alzner are both all we could hope for. Fedorov was great.

Knuble was good until 2010. A mistake since. Jagr was a blunder. Cassidy was a blunder. Boudreau was great until 2010. McPhee should have canned him after the Montreal debacle.

Overall, the Caps are a crude and clunky product. We need a GM who will integrate the assets into a winning whole.

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Old
03-12-2012, 08:08 AM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
I want to separate these quotes, as I think we're going a bit off-topic.



I think you have a vision of AO... but frankly, even if we play devil's advocate and accept it, the fact is: he hasn't been that player in a few years, now. Hard to understand too: he only plays on half the ice.



Now I'm confused. The D cannot change. We're past the deadline.

Deeper? Until yesterday, he wasn't playing his depth. It's one thing to keep guys like Knuble and HamerL... but why keep em if you don't play them?





Look, I love ya bro, but half your post dwells on hope, while the other half seems to be conceeding the season. Worse, you don't dare look beyond the very near future.

That's what McPhee has done to you.... and I'm sorry, but lingering on the exception (like the 91 North Stars) instead of having the confidence to embrace a future based on us making our own breaks speaks volumes as to how lost this franchise and its fans are right now.
RE: AO - One thing about the kid is that he ALWAYS shows up in the playoffs. The "it" is still in him. Just needs to be brought out. Confidence will do this. He's not playing with it now and he hasn't in more than a year..but that doesn't mean he never will again.

RE: The D - I meant going forward over the offseason (if GMGM is still here) he needs to restructure his thinking about the D. Also having depth is great but really you don't ever want to have to use that depth! Injuries/suspensions happen tho and instead of inserting Tyler Sloan we can go with Hamrlik or Erskine.

RE: This season - My belief is that the biggest hurdle this team has is making the playoffs. Once in I like our chances. McPhee will be gone if we falter.

RE: Doing damage in the playoffs - Just look at Montreal a couple years back or Philly as the 8th seed. You can go back to Edmonton's run as an 8 seed too. There are PLENTY of examples of teams who have mediocre regular seasons and make a run in the playoffs. I just used the 90 Caps and the 91 Stars as simple examples. There are many many others.

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Old
05-12-2012, 09:19 PM
  #285
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The man who hired DH must go...buahahaha who am I kidding? Ernie f*ing Grunfeld got extended.

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05-12-2012, 10:12 PM
  #286
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The Caps will not win until they hire a competent GM.

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05-12-2012, 10:15 PM
  #287
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His comments after beating Boston to the effect of 'I have no idea how we beat this team' were alarming. At least fake some sense of being in command and being able to explain what's happening. It goes to show how much luck is seemingly relied upon rather than unflinching self-criticism and attention to detail.

That said...he's teflon.

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05-12-2012, 10:17 PM
  #288
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His comments after beating Boston to the effect of 'I have no idea how we beat this team' were alarming. At least fake some sense of being in command. It goes to show how much luck is seemingly relied upon rather than unflinching self-criticism and attention to detail.
Zero direction and completely oblivious. It'll come down to the owner to realize this...not likely.

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05-12-2012, 10:17 PM
  #289
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Should be fired, won't be fired. /thread

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05-12-2012, 10:20 PM
  #290
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I have said it many times, if you hate Dale, you need to hate McPhee too. This is his body of work. Or is the bottom line that imperative to only hire coaches with no experience? Is this largely the norm around the leagues top franchises?

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05-12-2012, 10:29 PM
  #291
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I'd certainly dump McPhee. He is the perfect mediocrity. I'm angry that Leonsis has been so goofy about this man.

Hunter has been great. The new GM will have to choose the coach, though.

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05-12-2012, 10:36 PM
  #292
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Should be fired, won't be fired. /thread
Yep.

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05-12-2012, 11:06 PM
  #293
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Should be fired, won't be fired. /thread
Pretty much sums up the whole sorry franchise...

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05-12-2012, 11:10 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Should be fired, won't be fired. /thread
That should be the new nickname, lol:
George "Should be fired, won't be fired" McPhee

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Old
05-12-2012, 11:14 PM
  #295
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That should be the new nickname, lol:
George "Should be fired, won't be fired" McPhee
Meh, I think a shorter version fit's his M.O. a bit better:

George "Should/won't" McPhee.

He should throw a huge offer at Suter. He won't.
He should trade away some of the homegrown players on the roster. He won't.
He should cull the on-ice non-playing staff. He won't.
He should get a true 2C. He won't
etc....

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05-12-2012, 11:28 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Meh, I think a shorter version fit's his M.O. a bit better:

George "Should/won't" McPhee.

He should throw a huge offer at Suter. He won't.
He should trade away some of the homegrown players on the roster. He won't.
He should cull the on-ice non-playing staff. He won't.
He should get a true 2C. He won't
etc....
George "No effin vision" McPhee.
George "The Big Incremental" McPhee.

In the end, I don't think he's really scared of making moves, I just think he doesn't have a clear vision of what team he wants to build. Bad design = leaky ship, and no matter how he tries to patch it up, something keeps leaking.

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05-13-2012, 12:25 AM
  #297
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Way too many years over due. Only thing worse would be Button, McGuire, or Milbury.
you guys can have sather. even swap and we'll throw in a bag of pucks. if that doesn't do it you can have the Knicks and the Jets too.

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05-13-2012, 12:30 AM
  #298
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I have said it many times, if you hate Dale, you need to hate McPhee too. This is his body of work. Or is the bottom line that imperative to only hire coaches with no experience? Is this largely the norm around the leagues top franchises?
i cant believe the hate for mcphe. you were going no where with fat boy. he makes a change beats th e cup defender and take the number 2 teams in points to a 7 game nail biter. but he sucks?

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05-13-2012, 12:35 AM
  #299
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i cant believe the hate for mcphe. you were going no where with fat boy. he makes a change beats th e cup defender and take the number 2 teams in points to a 7 game nail biter. but he sucks?
You know, childish name-calling is probably the best way to earn credibility on here.

Well done.

Try getting educated on the situation with the Capitals first, and then maybe you can come back here and actually put forth some intelligent dialogue.

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05-13-2012, 01:00 AM
  #300
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You know, childish name-calling is probably the best way to earn credibility on here.

Well done.

Try getting educated on the situation with the Capitals first, and then maybe you can come back here and actually put forth some intelligent dialogue.
You made a good point a couple days ago. It's like Scotty on Star Trek. Never tell your captain what's actually possible. Tell him what he's asking is impossible, then do it and come off like a miracle worker.

Boudreau made winning look easy in the regular season, so losing in the playoffs looked like underperformance.

Hunter made winning look impossible, so doing anything in the playoffs looked like a ******* miracle.

And he comes off smelling like roses.

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