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Death to the Undertaker....The all purpose Fire McPhee thread

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Old
02-06-2013, 05:22 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by Capitlols View Post
I could easily see Ted promoting Ross Mahoney to GM. Don't know how I'd feel about that.
I think Mahoney comes off as extremely capable, and obviously the way amateur scouting has run under him in the last decade is encouraging. The major problem, to me, is that he has been a significant part of the organization as it oversaw the culture many are blaming for the mess the team is in. It's possible he would bring a different attitude, but it seems impossible to predict.

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02-07-2013, 06:19 AM
  #627
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Get rid of McPhee. If he knew the game he'd look at what he's done and resign.

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02-07-2013, 07:53 AM
  #628
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Get rid of McPhee. If he knew the game he'd look at what he's done and resign.
I am sure you are being sarcastic here. GMGM is a competitor with lots of confidence and he would never throw in the towel like that.

For all the venom here being thrown at him suddenly (deservedly so I may add) lets be real about the situation:

We have some strong young players on the roster who are going thru growing pains (Carlson, Alzner, Holtby, Neuvirth, Johansson, Orlov) a new system with a promising coach (I do like the tempo Oates plays with and his positive outlook on things) and a couple top end prospects (Kuznetsov, Forsberg) in the pipeline. If Wilson works out he will def be a great contributor and fill a huge need.

Assume this is a throwaway season and we tank. Seems like we will get a stud with a top pick. Also if we look at the trade deadline there are alot of teams who would look at guys like Ribiero, Poti, Hamrlik etc and we could get some decent draft picks for the lot of them.

I don't feel this is a team that needs to be blown up. I still insist we are rebuilding here and have been for the last couple years with all those young players taking on key roles.

It seems like its a perfect storm of suck that has hit us this year and there is definitely no puck luck we are getting and almost everyone having a down year.

I wouldn't be terribly uncomfortable to just get through the season while making strides but not enough to crawl out of lottery position.

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02-07-2013, 08:54 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I think that's a fair way to evaluate a GM.

It sure seems like a shortfall of George to me. His vision appears to horde core and maybe one year the cup will be ours.

Playing devils advocate, the game has changed in the past 10 years. George doesn't see the need for a bouncer any longer. It was unheard of to not have one, not too long ago (ignoring the Detroit model).

My point, a GM may well be forced to adapt. Perhaps to compete within a division built around a certain style, a team like Philly changes significantly overnight. Things don't always go as planned, and he needs to be quick to adapt.

GM seems very static in his approach.
Not true, Randy. He traded DellaRovere for DJ King just 2 years ago, because he wanted an enforcer. He just chose the wrong enforcer (surprise!) as King couldnt play anymore.

Oddly enough, this move came *after* GMGM determined we did NOT need an enforcer in 2009...only to see him reverse course a year later.

That small tidbit is the exact problem with George. He waffles around with "how to win", and doesnt follow any one clear path. Hell, the ONLY true path he ever did was the Leonsis mandate to build thru the draft in 2004. Many thought that was a GMGM choice he forced on Leonsis, but in my mind, it's probably the opposite. Many on here state that Leonsis has forced his will on GMGM in the past (Cassidy, Jagr, etc)...then its probably true with the build thru the draft mantra too, yes?

Again, GMGM has NO PLAN. Now that he has been left to his devices, post Ovechkin, its painfully obvious.

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02-07-2013, 09:10 AM
  #630
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Well, the game has changed.

I see what you are saying but King may not be the best example.

Him floundering on the need for a goon as hockey has all but been removed fighting (short of Hendy offering up himself as a punching bag), is actually closer to the only thing I give him a pass for. I felt he was trying to be ahead of the curve.

I believe he was attempting to copy the Detroit model for a cup. Bruce often spoke against fighting. But Ovi was taking the role of enforcer, and George tried to address it.

The bigger problem is him being a former fighter not seeing the need to have a tough team, or getting players tough to play against across the lineup, not one guy on 4 and a 7.

That is him floundering more, IMO. Mega flounder. All he needs to do is look in the mirror to see what this team needs.

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02-07-2013, 09:13 AM
  #631
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When did Bruce speak against fighting?

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02-07-2013, 09:17 AM
  #632
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
When did Bruce speak against fighting?
I mean he did play Brashear a ton when he was here and had a lot of confidence in him for the most part.

He really liked Erskine as well.

DJ King did kinda suck in hindsight so there was a strong justification for BB not to play him.

One of the worst mistakes we made was letting go of BB. I wonder how he is doing in Anaheim?

Ridley,

I agree with you. George knows how to get good value and good buys when it comes to ingredients but he is CONSTANTLY changing his recipe. Good chefs don't do that.

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02-07-2013, 09:27 AM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
I'm as opposed to Burke as you are, but how many of those cup-winning GMs have even been GMs for a second team? Maybe they didn't win with another team because their original team rewarded their success with job security?

Seriously though, **** Burke. I don't care about experience. Experience can easily be as bad as it is good, especially for someone as stubborn as Burke. Just look at the terrible habits it's cemented in some of the players on this team. I'd rather have Oates as GM/coach than Burke.
(Ok, not specifically directed at you, Liberati0n)

I think most of the Burke hate is directed at Burke the character, not Burke the GM. Burke is a "Cherry light" in that he is a lightning rod for discussion in the sport of hockey. He doesnt pull any punches, he talks openly and blatantly, and he adores the limelight. Main difference tween him and Cherry is that Burke was still actually IN THE GAME, and not sitting up on his balcony taking pot shots at people (ala Cherry), without putting his own ass on the line as a GM.

Burke has as many successes as failures. One can slant his success as being someone elses main work (Murray), but by the same token, the same can we said for his failures (Ferguson).

I honestly think he did a pretty decent job in TO. That team was terrible when he got it, and he was simply not *allowed* to rebuild the correct way, as that is not OK in Toronto. They had been without a winner for a long time, so he was in an unenviable position of having to try and win now as well as rebuild completely. How exactly is one supposed to do that???? That's why you saw the Kessel trade debacle. Had he not been in "win now" mode for that city, that never would have happened.

He left the team far more talented that he inherited, with a more set tone for the future. I call that a success in some ways, granted its marginal. People act like the Leafs team he took over had been a playoff regular. Please.

I'd be fine with Burke. I've yet to see an instance where he took over a program and made the program worse. Facts are, he has made all of them better, IMO. How much better is the actual crux of the discussion.


Last edited by Ridley Simon: 02-07-2013 at 10:23 AM. Reason: typos
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Old
02-07-2013, 11:11 AM
  #634
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog/...itals-turn-now
Quote:
"We haven't figured out a way to get past the second round of the playoffs," Leonsis said. "I expect us to be good this year and good [in the future]. Until I see that we're not trying to do things to make us a team that can win the Cup, then I'll know it's time. I think George is constantly trying to make us that team."
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean but suffice it to say there's plenty more BS to be served up.

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02-07-2013, 11:13 AM
  #635
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Proof that George has confidential pictures of Ted.

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02-07-2013, 11:24 AM
  #636
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I wonder if they ever considered an experienced coach(s).

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02-07-2013, 11:26 AM
  #637
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I am shocked to hear the owner of the company spouting the company line that he created.

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02-07-2013, 11:28 AM
  #638
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I wonder if they ever considered an experienced coach(s).
God I would have killed for Jon Cooper last season. He's not even an "experienced" coach at the NHL, but every bench he's run as a head coach has been ridiculous.

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02-07-2013, 11:28 AM
  #639
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Until I see that we're not trying to do things to make us a team that can win the Cup
Uhh, they keep playing JFS. That dude sucks.

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02-07-2013, 11:40 AM
  #640
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
When did Bruce speak against fighting?
I remember a few times him talking after games, not wanting to get into putting goons on the ice late, or questioning opposition coaches doing it. Someone else has got to remember this. I like fighting. I listen to these things.

Bruce certainly felt he had no use for King. He rarely even dressed him and Erskine for a while there.

He would never put King on the ice late in games up a few goals. Bruce never touched off a brawl but putting his goons out.

Sometimes actions speak louder than words, which means I cannot find the quotes I heard.

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02-07-2013, 11:46 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I remember a few times him talking after games, not wanting to get into putting goons on the ice late, or questioning opposition coaches doing it. Someone else has got to remember this. I like fighting. I listen to these things.

Bruce certainly felt he had no use for King. He rarely even dressed him and Erskine for a while there.

He would never put King on the ice late in games up a few goals. Bruce never touched off a brawl but putting his goons out.

Sometimes actions speak louder than words, which means I cannot find the quotes I heard.
So in other words...he didn't speak against fighting.

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02-07-2013, 12:15 PM
  #642
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So in other words...he didn't speak against fighting.
I get the idea that Bruce liked to let his best players play and the worst players sit the bench. Apparently that's actually a decent idea and why he wins so many games.

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02-07-2013, 12:22 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by IkeaMonkey View Post
I get the idea that Bruce liked to let his best players play and the worst players sit the bench. Apparently that's actually a decent idea and why he wins so many games.
Yeah. He played Brashear a ton b/c he deserved it. King was a scratch a great majority of the team b/c he deserved it.

Dale is the one who banished Erskine it seemed. Over the years Bruce played him alot.

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02-07-2013, 12:44 PM
  #644
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
So in other words...he didn't speak against fighting.
I may have heard wrong, or, you are wrong.

Fighting comes in different flavors. He and all coaches are fine with that instantaneous competitive fight.

What I heard was probably after the end of game sore loser or scripted fights. Probably after Bradley got destroyed, or maybe after Downie went after Ovi.

You never heard him say he likes those fights. You certainly rarely to never saw him loading up on goons late in games on the road, the game decided.

He also stated he does not condone fights in camp from players trying to get recognized. That means he has spoken against meaningless fighting.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 02-07-2013 at 01:06 PM.
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02-07-2013, 12:50 PM
  #645
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(Ok, not specifically directed at you, Liberati0n)

I think most of the Burke hate is directed at Burke the character, not Burke the GM. Burke is a "Cherry light" in that he is a lightning rod for discussion in the sport of hockey. He doesnt pull any punches, he talks openly and blatantly, and he adores the limelight. Main difference tween him and Cherry is that Burke was still actually IN THE GAME, and not sitting up on his balcony taking pot shots at people (ala Cherry), without putting his own ass on the line as a GM.

Burke has as many successes as failures. One can slant his success as being someone elses main work (Murray), but by the same token, the same can we said for his failures (Ferguson).

I honestly think he did a pretty decent job in TO. That team was terrible when he got it, and he was simply not *allowed* to rebuild the correct way, as that is not OK in Toronto. They had been without a winner for a long time, so he was in an unenviable position of having to try and win now as well as rebuild completely. How exactly is one supposed to do that???? That's why you saw the Kessel trade debacle. Had he not been in "win now" mode for that city, that never would have happened.

He left the team far more talented that he inherited, with a more set tone for the future. I call that a success in some ways, granted its marginal. People act like the Leafs team he took over had been a playoff regular. Please.

I'd be fine with Burke. I've yet to see an instance where he took over a program and made the program worse. Facts are, he has made all of them better, IMO. How much better is the actual crux of the discussion.
My biggest problem with Burke is that he is too severe an answer to McPhee's lack of an identity/etc. Burke will stick to his attitudes and his "philosophy" so stubbornly that he'll make really stupid moves. His arrogance to self-criticism ratio is also horrible, which furthers the first part of the problem.

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02-07-2013, 01:03 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
My biggest problem with Burke is that he is too severe an answer to McPhee's lack of an identity/etc. Burke will stick to his attitudes and his "philosophy" so stubbornly that he'll make really stupid moves. His arrogance to self-criticism ratio is also horrible, which furthers the first part of the problem.
Honestly...at this point...who gives a ****? If Burke comes in here and deals 12 guys...can we do any worse than last place in the league?

Now....if he deals our #1 pick that we will get ****ed out of in the tumbler...then I'd be pissed. Deal Brouwer, Wolski, Green, Ribs, Holtby/Neuvy? **** it. do it.

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02-07-2013, 01:09 PM
  #647
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Honestly...at this point...who gives a ****? If Burke comes in here and deals 12 guys...can we do any worse than last place in the league?

Now....if he deals our #1 pick that we will get ****ed out of in the tumbler...then I'd be pissed. Deal Brouwer, Wolski, Green, Ribs, Holtby/Neuvy? **** it. do it.
Come on, you know he'll trade that pick.

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02-07-2013, 02:27 PM
  #648
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02-07-2013, 02:38 PM
  #649
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02-07-2013, 02:59 PM
  #650
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog/...itals-turn-now

I don't even know what that's supposed to mean but suffice it to say there's plenty more BS to be served up.
Reminds me of the Mel Brooks Musical/Movie "The Producers", where they realized that it would be financially more advantageous to put on a stinker Broadway musical rather than a quality one.

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