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Death to the Undertaker....The all purpose Fire McPhee thread

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03-05-2012, 06:30 PM
  #151
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Do you think McPhee thinks the core is rotten, that he made a bad coaching decision, or neither?

To me, him thinking neither is wrong would be the greatest indictment, and that appears to be his position.

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03-05-2012, 06:34 PM
  #152
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Just thinking now, maybe the Caps dodged a bullet with Vermette?

5 games 0 points -2 on a hot team, not making a good transition thus far.

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03-05-2012, 06:35 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Liberation View Post
Just thinking now, maybe the Caps dodged a bullet with Vermette?

5 games 0 points -2 on a hot team, not making a good transition thus far.
Looks like he'd fit right in on the Capitals.

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03-05-2012, 06:37 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Do you think McPhee thinks the core is rotten, that he made a bad coaching decision, or neither?

To me, him thinking neither is wrong would be the greatest indictment, and that appears to be his position.
what do you want him to do in march?

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03-05-2012, 06:38 PM
  #155
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what do you want him to do in march?
Resign

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03-05-2012, 06:38 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Do you think McPhee thinks the core is rotten, that he made a bad coaching decision, or neither?

To me, him thinking neither is wrong would be the greatest indictment, and that appears to be his position.
I don't think he's ever going to come out and say "I screwed the pooch" on Dale. However, I do think you'll see it when he's not asked back and there's a short quick "thanks for your service".

I don't think he'll ever come out and say "I think our guy with a lifetime contract who was an MVP is dragging us down".

I think he has more savvy than to say what he might want to say out in the media. Right now, he has some tough choices, and turning a significant problem into something that's beyond repairable (Ovechkin) is a bit hard to do. If you think he can't win, you can't bad mouth him in the media before you make a move with him.

If you think Dale was a screw up, you can't really say it mid final stretch. You also give more leeway to the clowns who might be in the lockerroom if you sell a guy out before the season is done.

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03-05-2012, 06:39 PM
  #157
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Wanted him to do something 3 days before March.

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03-05-2012, 06:40 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I don't think he's ever going to come out and say "I screwed the pooch" on Dale. However, I do think you'll see it when he's not asked back and there's a short quick "thanks for your service".

I don't think he'll ever come out and say "I think our guy with a lifetime contract who was an MVP is dragging us down".

I think he has more savvy than to say what he might want to say out in the media. Right now, he has some tough choices, and turning a significant problem into something that's beyond repairable (Ovechkin) is a bit hard to do. If you think he can't win, you can't bad mouth him in the media before you make a move with him.

If you think Dale was a screw up, you can't really say it mid final stretch. You also give more leeway to the clowns who might be in the lockerroom if you sell a guy out before the season is done.
I wasn't implying an answer to my question, other than my fear is that he thinks nothing is wrong. And my basis for that fear is that he didn't sell at the deadline.

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03-05-2012, 06:42 PM
  #159
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It was reported on here that McPhee stated clearly in a radio interview that Hunter would be back next year.

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03-05-2012, 06:44 PM
  #160
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I am not sold on GM at the draft table. Is it about his scout budget, or not? I don't follow prospects like most but it seems many here could make our 1st round picks over the past 10 years and I would probably be fine with it.

Regardless if you think he has done great I think he drafted a core that is flawed. If he is going to live by the draft, he can't just take BPA, he has to also consider organizational needs. He has focused on D, but he never moves any; he could have taken a few more centers IMO. So during our window to win a cup under Bruce, we were too young on D. Green, Sarge, Carlson, just weren't ready to lead us to a cup. The fill in vets, more close to support guys. C depth, lacking. C's develop faster, D slower. Tick tock if you wanted Ovi to lead us to a cup.

George seems to do well not getting fleeced in deals, but that same strength could be a weakness in that it makes him gun shy to pull the strings on a big move.

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03-05-2012, 06:44 PM
  #161
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GMGMs is at the time where his tenure has been long enough and the 'rebuild'/beginning of the AO era is past that job security will be a lot less naturally. Whenever there is a change (no one has their job forever) I just hope Mahoney and the scouting crew they have is kept intact.

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03-05-2012, 06:45 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
I wasn't implying an answer to my question, other than my fear is that he thinks nothing is wrong. And my basis for that fear is that he didn't sell at the deadline.
You have to find someone willing to take assets to sell at the deadline.

Really, the only players who they were going to think about selling were Hamrlik, Ward and maybe another misfit toy. You're not getting someone taking Roman off your hands. Ward you might have to pay someone to take.

Knuble, possibly, though I think the idea is that at some point he could find his game when it got tighter and he might help you more in the room and on the ice than a 5th round pick would.

Sure, I guess you can trade Wideman, Semin or something but to me that says "I don't have ANY faith in a team with a former MVP winner, a 40 goal scorer, and what most felt was a darn good goalie".

I think he was dealt a bad hand, and there's no real way to make those kind of moves without just folding on the season.

No GM, with the owner they have who needs the playoff and ST dollars like Ted desperately needs, is going to rightfully sell things off for a pick or a future in what's probably a poor draft.

In actuality, the clubs who might have actually spent on Wideman or something else, are probably also your closet rivals for a spot or you might see him in the playoffs if you do make it in.

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03-05-2012, 06:48 PM
  #163
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It's simplistic to just say he never drafted C's or added players who fit those roles.

They've paid guys, acquired guys and developed some players who never improved or got better to the point of where they fit in that 2nd line role. They've gone through a pretty lengthy list in that hole.

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03-05-2012, 06:48 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I am not sold on GM at the draft table. Is it about his scout budget, or not? I don't follow prospects like most but it seems many here could make our 1st round picks over the past 10 years and I would probably be fine with it.

Regardless if you think he has done great I think he drafted a core that is flawed. If he is going to live by the draft, he can't just take BPA, he has to also consider organizational needs. He has focused on D, but he never moves any; he could have taken a few more centers IMO. So during our window to win a cup under Bruce, we were too young on D. Green, Sarge, Carlson, just weren't ready to lead us to a cup. The fill in vets, the same, close to support guys. C depth, lacking.

George seems to well not getting fleeced in deals, but that same strength could be a weakness in that it makes him gun shy to pull the strings on a big move.
Drafting 18 year olds one has to go with the BPA draft wise.

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03-05-2012, 06:49 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
It was reported on here that McPhee stated clearly in a radio interview that Hunter would be back next year.
He said the same about the core as well IINM.

If that's more than rallying the troops then this org. is quite possibly fubar.

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03-05-2012, 06:53 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
It was reported on here that McPhee stated clearly in a radio interview that Hunter would be back next year.
Would kind of undermine Hunter the rest of this season if GMGM were to be ambiguous as to who the coach would be next season.

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03-05-2012, 06:53 PM
  #167
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getting nothing for some of these outgoing turds is going to be one of the bigger blemishes on GMGM's mediocre resume imo. especially when you look at what some guys fetched. especially wideman...jeez, what a ******* waste. almost certainly couldve netted a low 1st from some team thinking hes a guy that'll put them over the top, yet the caps turned that down in favor of 6 weeks of turnovers and getting shutout at home over and over.

AWESOME.

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03-05-2012, 06:59 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
You have to find someone willing to take assets to sell at the deadline.

Really, the only players who they were going to think about selling were Hamrlik, Ward and maybe another misfit toy. You're not getting someone taking Roman off your hands. Ward you might have to pay someone to take.

Knuble, possibly, though I think the idea is that at some point he could find his game when it got tighter and he might help you more in the room and on the ice than a 5th round pick would.

Sure, I guess you can trade Wideman, Semin or something but to me that says "I don't have ANY faith in a team with a former MVP winner, a 40 goal scorer, and what most felt was a darn good goalie".

I think he was dealt a bad hand, and there's no real way to make those kind of moves without just folding on the season.

No GM, with the owner they have who needs the playoff and ST dollars like Ted desperately needs, is going to rightfully sell things off for a pick or a future in what's probably a poor draft.

In actuality, the clubs who might have actually spent on Wideman or something else, are probably also your closet rivals for a spot or you might see him in the playoffs if you do make it in.
It was reported by Friedman that there were multiple offers of futures for Hamrlik. GMGM apparently balked because he wanted a young forward. So yeah, you were getting someone taking him off your hands. You were just too stupid to make a deal.

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03-05-2012, 07:04 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
It's 14 years of failure no matter how you want to argue pointless crap.


In the 12 seasons since the Finals visit his teams have:

* Missed the playoffs 5 times
* Lost in the 1st round 5 times
* Lost in the 2nd round 2 times as the higher seed.

Season 15 looks like another playoff miss or 1st round exit at best.

Now maybe my standards of excellence are a little higher than yours, but that's failure in my eyes. Not saying he hasn't done some good things, but his time is done. He's had enough of a chance to build this "consistant contender" that he and Ted flap their lip about all the time.

But hey, keep on defending the Captain of the Titanic.
I'm not defending the Captain of the Titanic. I quite clearly said he should be fired.

I'm attacking faulty logic and incorrect reasoning. It hasn't been 14 years of failure. Year 1 wasn't a failure. 2005-2008 weren't failures--the were in a rebuild. Several other playoff years likely shouldn't be considered failures. If your only barometer for non-failure is winning a Cup, then every single GM in the league has a very large failure percentage.

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03-05-2012, 07:08 PM
  #170
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I'm not one that thinks he should automatically go.

I think it's hard to argue with making the playoffs if he should make them, and putting together what should have been a pretty good team on paper.

Sure, it blew up in his face, and I think he deserves a lot of blame for that. However, I also think that if either Green or Backstrom is healthy for the season, and we're not having this conversation. If that's my opinion, then I don't particularly think it's fair to see him go. I do think you have to look at the team, and the ownership as best you can in 5 year windows. Not 14, not 2, but 5. In the last five, they've made the playoffs most of the time (so far they haven't in this one). While they've botched the deal when they got there, it's such a crap shoot that most of the teams take a while to get over the hump.

I wouldn't be completely against his firing, I just worry about what comes next if he does go.

Right now, as I see it, the team should still have another window of 4-5 seasons with a lot of resources and a decent chance of something special. It's not as dire as some have made it out to be (as they're constantly in the game to make themselves look good even if they're pushing losing hands) though there are some serious decisions that must be made. I just wonder if you whack the guy, if it doesn't get worse and farther away from the solution to the puzzle than closer.

the next guy in might make a trade, give away one of the best assets of the club for a small return and turn it into a team that can't make the playoffs instead of should have made them.

I still, in my heart of heart, want to see what this club does with a coach with a real track record. not some guy they called out of Canada who has one foot still in Canada and the whole "I can roll out of here anytime I feel like it" behind him. Give them a coach with a system, with some fire, and with some record, and I think we're not having these concerns.

God knows, I also have no real desire to see some of the names thrown out anywhere near the draft board. Say what you will about McPhee, but he can find first rounders, and that's something they do have this coming draft.


I also laugh a bit that the people who were clamoring for Bruce's head are the same ones with the pitch forks after McPhee. What happens when their latest whipping boy is gone? Drive Ovechkin out? Ted? Some of you just want change for change sake and are deep down in side happy to see them screw up so you can score internet points.
You're coming down on those who want change, but then talk right above in your post about how you want a different coach yet again? Ironic, I'll give you that.

If you're paying close attention, most of the Fire Bruce Crew, has run away into hiding. The few left are too busy spouting off about how "we look better" while we continue to lose.

Very good post until you lost it all in the last paragraph with the mention of some mythical lynch mob.

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03-05-2012, 07:08 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I'm not defending the Captain of the Titanic. I quite clearly said he should be fired.

I'm attacking faulty logic and incorrect reasoning. It hasn't been 14 years of failure. Year 1 wasn't a failure. 2005-2008 weren't failures--the were in a rebuild. Several other playoff years likely shouldn't be considered failures. If your only barometer for non-failure is winning a Cup, then every single GM in the league has a very large failure percentage.
You're not a big picture guy. I get that now. As long as you agree his time is done, there's nothing more to argue about. I really don't want to waste any more time dissecting his chronic failures when they're well documented.


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03-05-2012, 07:10 PM
  #172
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You're not a big picture guy. I get that now.
So being a 'big picture' guy means painting an entire tenure with one brush, without actually filing in any details? Got it.

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03-05-2012, 07:15 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Do you think McPhee thinks the core is rotten, that he made a bad coaching decision, or neither?

To me, him thinking neither is wrong would be the greatest indictment, and that appears to be his position.
That's why sometimes you need a fresh perspective. It's clear to me his judgement about the core of this team and the parts he's brought in to round them into a contender is severly flawed.

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03-05-2012, 07:16 PM
  #174
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all of these are wrong, we've had a lot of vets over these few years, our chemistry has been fine, and i think BB is a decent coach and its to early to judge hunter. at the end of the day our team just isnt as good as the other teams this isnt a hockey movie its 95% on how good the players are
Um, you are flat out wrong.

How long have you been a Caps fan? I dont say that to be rude, but as a serious question? He had a terrible locker room during the Adam Oates years, and then again during the Jagr years. Really awful.

Chemistry?? Hershey had a great locker room in 2006, along with Boudreau, and that graduated to the Caps. Now that GMGM has had to go out and acquire people, the chemistry is all akilter again, and its obvious on the ice. The fact that 2 of his recent acquisition, Hamrlik and Vokoun, are openly complaining, also speaks volume (as well as the negative comments by departed Caps like Cooke, Bradley, Steckel, and Morissonn...to name a few).

Vets?? Name a single vet, other than Federov, who has had a major impact on a McPhee team? Lang maybe? Knuble? Who else? 3 vets in 14 years? Most teams can get that many in a 1-2yr window tops.

Coaches?? Boudreau was a hire due to BB's perseverance, not GM's amazing acumen. Cassidy bombed, Hanlon bombed, and now Hunter is nearing "bomb" category too. Who has he gone out and "gotten" that's done anything good, from a coaching standpoint?

You are wrong on all counts, I am sorry to say (really sorry, as I wish I was wrong...were I, this team would be light years ahead of where it is right now)

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03-05-2012, 07:16 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
So being a 'big picture' guy means painting an entire tenure with one brush, without actually filing in any details? Got it.
Keep oversimplifying to keep the argument alive? I guess some people just love to argue for the giggles.


Answer me the one key question about Ted's Big Plan. Is this team the perrenial Cup contender that he stated as the goal of the organization? The answer is no. The guy in charge of making that happen is GMGM. Not sure that anything else needs to be said.

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