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Death to the Undertaker....The all purpose Fire McPhee thread

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03-05-2012, 07:17 PM
  #176
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McPhee fails the little picture thing too.

Pre-Jagr he overestimated the shelf life of his D -to the point of extending dinosaurs and not looking for replacements. During the rebuild, he never brought in role models, veterans, players who were good at their positions. That looks to be huge now as the core is mentally fragile and has shown no improvement at their position in some 5 years. And obviously during the contending years, he never even tried to build a well rounded team. The year we had our best shot at the cup, two of our top five dmen are currently out of the NHL.

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03-05-2012, 07:19 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Keep oversimplifying to keep the argument alive? I guess some people just love to argue for the giggles.
Whatever, dude. Labeling GMGM's tenure a failure is disingenuous at best. It's nothing but rabble-rousing.

He's done lots of good for the organization and gotten it to it's highest point ever.

Unfortunately, he failed to capitalize on the new organizational heights, and made a series of mistakes over the past 3 years (not the past 14) that should cost him his job.

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03-05-2012, 07:22 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Whatever, dude. Labeling GMGM's tenure a failure is disingenuous at best. It's nothing but rabble-rousing.

He's done lots of good for the organization and gotten it to it's highest point ever.

Unfortunately, he failed to capitalize on the new organizational heights, and made a series of mistakes over the past 3 years (not the past 14) that should cost him his job.
Answer me the one key question about Ted's Big Plan. Is this team the perrenial Cup contender that he stated as the goal of the organization? The answer is no. The guy in charge of making that happen is GMGM. Not sure that anything else needs to be said.

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03-05-2012, 07:27 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Answer me the one key question about Ted's Big Plan. Is this team the perrenial Cup contender that he stated as the goal of the organization? The answer is no. The guy in charge of making that happen is GMGM. Not sure that anything else needs to be said.
The team was absolutely a perennial Cup contender from 2008-2011. They were seeded 2nd, 1st, and 1st in the East. The failure to capitalize in the playoffs combined with the failure to stay elite this season is what should cost him his job.

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03-05-2012, 07:29 PM
  #180
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You have to find someone willing to take assets to sell at the deadline.

Really, the only players who they were going to think about selling were Hamrlik, Ward and maybe another misfit toy. You're not getting someone taking Roman off your hands. Ward you might have to pay someone to take.

Knuble, possibly, though I think the idea is that at some point he could find his game when it got tighter and he might help you more in the room and on the ice than a 5th round pick would.

Sure, I guess you can trade Wideman, Semin or something but to me that says "I don't have ANY faith in a team with a former MVP winner, a 40 goal scorer, and what most felt was a darn good goalie".

I think he was dealt a bad hand, and there's no real way to make those kind of moves without just folding on the season.
No GM, with the owner they have who needs the playoff and ST dollars like Ted desperately needs, is going to rightfully sell things off for a pick or a future in what's probably a poor draft.

In actuality, the clubs who might have actually spent on Wideman or something else, are probably also your closet rivals for a spot or you might see him in the playoffs if you do make it in.
How exactly was he dealt a bad hand? Backstrom going down?

Green was hurt last season, hence Wideman. Back up plan, that was working out "ok" before Backstrom went down.

Backstrom goes down....what back up plan? GMGM chose to be beholden to one player, the one thing he couldnt have happen. Murphy's law, it happens. Laich was his back up? Guy cant even center a 2nd line, unfortunately.

That's more bad planning than it is a bad hand.


Last edited by Ridley Simon: 03-05-2012 at 07:35 PM.
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03-05-2012, 07:33 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Keep oversimplifying to keep the argument alive? I guess some people just love to argue for the giggles.


Answer me the one key question about Ted's Big Plan. Is this team the perrenial Cup contender that he stated as the goal of the organization? The answer is no. The guy in charge of making that happen is GMGM. Not sure that anything else needs to be said.
Unfortunately, THIS.

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03-05-2012, 07:35 PM
  #182
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Oh please, now we're rewriting history with hindsight?

The answer to that question is 'yes'. Like I said, the three teams from 2008-2011 were good enough to win the Cup. A little bit of luck in the 2009 playoffs and the 2010 playoffs and they're in the Conference Finals, at least.

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03-05-2012, 07:39 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
McPhee fails the little picture thing too.

Pre-Jagr he overestimated the shelf life of his D -to the point of extending dinosaurs and not looking for replacements. During the rebuild, he never brought in role models, veterans, players who were good at their positions. That looks to be huge now as the core is mentally fragile and has shown no improvement at their position in some 5 years. And obviously during the contending years, he never even tried to build a well rounded team. The year we had our best shot at the cup, two of our top five dmen are currently out of the NHL.
The mistakes he made during the late 90's are the same ones he's making now. He couldnt round out the team, and he hired coaches that created more problems than solved them.

Jagr, Lang, Oates, Bondra...with a D consisiting of Kwiatkowski, Doig, and trash. Coached by Cassidy. Good lord that was frustrating as we had a lot of potential, and he hired a kindergarten teacher to teach astro physics.

Now its the same thing, he cant round out the team. Different problems and reasons, but the same basic issues. And Hunter, while I love him for all he was as a player, probably was not the right hire for this team, right now. Maybe he will be, if things turn around.

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03-05-2012, 08:37 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by usiel View Post
Drafting 18 year olds one has to go with the BPA draft wise.
Is BPA how Detroit did it, I am not so sure what Nill's resume will say. To me, Russians and goalie needs seem to cloud "BPA", its not always so cut and dried. I will assume he has failed you in that regard and that you agree with me. Perhaps his bumped up scouting budget had an opposite effect. He should have just followed consensus and ignored them all.

Again point being he ended up with a lot of dmen. Yet flat out refuses to move any to address teams weaknesses. Deal breakers, all of them. Probably including Sarge.

I wonder if he can even afford to pay them all if they all pan out, as it seems he does with his hold dealbuster strategy.

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03-05-2012, 08:38 PM
  #185
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Pretty sure Detroit's drafting is below average. (Average at best.)

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03-05-2012, 09:01 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
The team was absolutely a perennial Cup contender from 2008-2011. They were seeded 2nd, 1st, and 1st in the East. The failure to capitalize in the playoffs combined with the failure to stay elite this season is what should cost him his job.
Paper Tiger and you know it...

2nd round loss as the best result and 2 other embarassing eliminations does not equal a legit contender. It equals what the rest of the NHL called us and we all hated them for it....regular season champs.


Last edited by CapitalsCupFantasy: 03-05-2012 at 09:07 PM.
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03-05-2012, 09:14 PM
  #187
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We didn't lost to MTL cause we couldn't play defense or score. We lost cause we played the hottest goaltender that was ever seen in the playoffs. It was all bad luck.

But then everyone was like "DEFENSE FIRST OR WE WILL NEVER WIN"

Look how that turned out. Face it, we need to go back to Run N Gun with this team

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03-05-2012, 09:31 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
We didn't lost to MTL cause we couldn't play defense or score. We lost cause we played the hottest goaltender that was ever seen in the playoffs. It was all bad luck.

But then everyone was like "DEFENSE FIRST OR WE WILL NEVER WIN"

Look how that turned out. Face it, we need to go back to Run N Gun with this team
did you forget what happened in the first half of the 2010-2011 season?

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03-05-2012, 09:35 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
Pretty sure Detroit's drafting is below average. (Average at best.)
I guess to be fair, picking late in the 1st round year after year after year will eventually catch up to you.

Since both Datsyuk and Zetterberg were both in the late 90s, most of their success has been early-mid rounds, but not a ton of legit fulltime super talented NHLers in the 2000s so far. Have no idea how the numbers compare around the league.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...gs_draft_picks

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03-05-2012, 09:37 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
How exactly was he dealt a bad hand? Backstrom going down?

Green was hurt last season, hence Wideman. Back up plan, that was working out "ok" before Backstrom went down.

Backstrom goes down....what back up plan? GMGM chose to be beholden to one player, the one thing he couldnt have happen. Murphy's law, it happens. Laich was his back up? Guy cant even center a 2nd line, unfortunately.

That's more bad planning than it is a bad hand.
I maintain he had an unplayable hand. Not really bad planning per say. Sure, it's nice to have 3 deep at a position of need, but it's not rational. They were 3 deep at the scoring center slot to begin with (Nick, Marcus and Brooks (even if he's a 3rd in all probability)). I don't think you can be three deep in the #1 spot unless you spend 3 top 5 picks on it.

No way you can bet on having 3 of your best players be out of sorts or hurt. Throw into the mix at the deadline the realization that ownership is probably needing the playoff cash. Needing to get people to reup for tickets that are going up in price yet again. Needing a winner in this town.

Getting a new coach. Having Dale come in and be pretty mediocre at best. Bruce worked, why not Dale?

Combined with injuries, and not exactly knowing what you have. If Backstrom can come back next week, it would have looked stupid to sell. If Green regained form (and he's getting better), they're a different team as well. They're a different team completely when those two are in the lineup.

If you sell, and they both come back, you look like a royal idiot.

In a salary cap era, you're going to have holes. You overpaid on Laich, though I maintain it's market rate for his services if you want to keep him. You probably did it because he's one of the guys who most feel is what you want to be (hard worker, two way, dedicated, NA player), so you're probably a bit short at #2 if Johansson doesn't make significant progression this season. Can't really get a #2 center at the deadline either, as there were none really to be had for a fair cost and term.



And yes, there's a witch hunt. There are some who aren't happy with anything in these parts. It's typical of fans in many cities of many sports, but it's funny to watch.

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03-05-2012, 09:39 PM
  #191
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I think the better question to ask is, with a few tweaks, can a core of Ovechkin, Backstrom, Green, and 7 million of player (or 3 and 4 tossed around or whatever), compete to win a Cup?

If it can't, then the team has a lot more trouble than just getting a new GM.

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03-05-2012, 09:49 PM
  #192
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did you forget what happened in the first half of the 2010-2011 season?
How did that work out in the playoffs? Same thing. IMO worse

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03-05-2012, 09:50 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Chimaera View Post
I maintain he had an unplayable hand. Not really bad planning per say. Sure, it's nice to have 3 deep at a position of need, but it's not rational. They were 3 deep at the scoring center slot to begin with (Nick, Marcus and Brooks (even if he's a 3rd in all probability)). I don't think you can be three deep in the #1 spot unless you spend 3 top 5 picks on it.
Come on man. You know how bad center depth of Backstrom-Johansson-Laich is. Backstrom was coming off a terrible season. Johansson is a child, has 5 concussions and was coming off a 30 point season. Laich is horrible defensively at the center position and has shown to be a 25-35 even strength point producer; he is criminally overrated.

That's lottery level bad and flat out idiotic to count on. To start the season with that was a gamble, not a reasoned decision.

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03-05-2012, 10:26 PM
  #194
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did you forget what happened in the first half of the 2010-2011 season?
That was because of the stupid defensive change after the Montreal loss...

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03-05-2012, 10:28 PM
  #195
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Anymore I can hardly tell who is sarcastically intentionally posting incorrect information to mock people and who is seriously just that wrong. The list of people I am actually sure know the basic chronology of this team is staggeringly short.

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03-05-2012, 10:36 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by mrwarden
Anymore I can hardly tell who is sarcastically intentionally posting incorrect information to mock people and who is seriously just that wrong. The list of people I am actually sure know the basic chronology of this team is staggeringly short.
I think I know which one it is in the most recent such post.

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03-05-2012, 11:16 PM
  #197
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Pretty sure Detroit's drafting is below average. (Average at best.)
You're kidding, right?

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03-05-2012, 11:20 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by G3 LesPaul View Post
We didn't lost to MTL cause we couldn't play defense or score. We lost cause we played the hottest goaltender that was ever seen in the playoffs. It was all bad luck.

But then everyone was like "DEFENSE FIRST OR WE WILL NEVER WIN"

Look how that turned out. Face it, we need to go back to Run N Gun with this team
The run 'n' gun worked by masking the lack of high caliber offensive weapons outside our Young Guns. It made guys like Fleischmann and Laich look like legitimate second line scorers. The problem is, it just doesn't work in the playoffs. Teams are no longer conserving energy, so they'll take the effort to run with you and shut down that style of play. Then those guys where were producing above their level stop producing, and you're left with nothing in the way of offensive production outside the Young Guns again. Without adding significantly to our scoring forward depth, running and gunning won't work in the playoffs.

I think this is McPhee's biggest flaw. He thinks so highly of his players that he overvalues and overestimates them, and then refuses to admit his mistakes until they've become blatantly obvious to even the most casual fan. Sometimes overvaluing you players can workout great, particularly if you can get other GMs to believe you (the Witt trade, or more recently the Varlamov trade), and it keeps you from doing something stupid and impulsive (see Mike Milbury's tenure as a GM). More often though, it bites you in the ass (Flash as the 2C, the Schultz and Laich contracts), and those small mistakes add up. The Caps don't have any Scott Gomez level anchors, but the return they're getting on guys like Ward, Hamrlik, Poti, Schultz, and Erskine is virtually non-existant, and those salaries add up (to 13.63M to be precise, all of which will still be there next year if McPhee can't recognize the waste and get rid of them). In a cap world, those mistakes are a major issue that can cripple a contending team. That's enough room for Parise + Suter right there, but instead it's going to waste.

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03-05-2012, 11:22 PM
  #199
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You're kidding, right?
Absolutely not. Of course I get a response like that though; Detroit's amazing drafting is possibly the most common myth among less informed hockey fans. I read something specific written about it, but I can't remember where at this point. It's pretty conclusively the case though. I did a quick search and found this basic information: http://www.topcornerhockey.com/module_1-5yrs.html

Average games played per drafted player:
Last 5 years: Detroit is 28th
Last 7 years: Detroit is 26th
Last 10 years: Detroit is 29th
(Capitals are 12th, 16th, 28th)

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03-05-2012, 11:31 PM
  #200
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You're kidding, right?
Since they picked Franzen in the 3rd round in 2004, they've been downright bad. From 2005 to 2011, only Red Wings draft picks have reached double digits in career goals - Justin Abdelkader (10), Darren Helm (23), and Shawn Matthias (15, and none with the Wings). They haven't had a defenseman reach the NHL level since Jakub Kindl, the 19th overall pick in 2005. Most of the players who are currently producing on their roster were drafted long ago or were acquired in trades. That's not to say they don't have some good prospects in development, but they've certainly hit a rough patch.

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