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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part IV

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Old
06-13-2012, 05:10 PM
  #926
Nuclear SUV
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Originally Posted by CHRDANHUTCH View Post
goes back to Washington state footing the bills after the construction of both SAFECO/Centurylink Fields, Nuclear, Sonics were asking then and were told no..... Key Arena was renovated once and isn't the issue that Key isn't up to standards, and was silenced for 18 months, fwiu.... add to that, isn't KA a historic site?
- State didn't fund Safeco Field. It was King County, with the exception of people who bought stadium specific lottery scratch tickets and license plates outside of King County.

- Seahawks stadium, now CenturyLink was state related, after residents in the state of Washington voted to build it in a state wide referendum.

- The state of Washington has never issued any moratorium on arena/stadium financing.

- Howard Schultz never seriously tried to build/finance new arena. He never did any serious lobbying nor played any hardball.

- Key Arena was almost a totally new arena in 1995. The main roof supports are the only relic from the original building. It is still a quality venue in great condition. If it were located in giant parking lot, it would still be a viable NBA facility. But since it is on public land, it is tough to squeeze enough alternate revenue out of the sucker without subsidy. Ballmer-Sinegal were willing to subsidize out of own pocket to keep team at Seattle Center. Plan was to do new Key Arena, but if footprint was too small, build new arena at the Memorial Stadium site.

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06-13-2012, 05:40 PM
  #927
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11,386 fans at Key Arena, February 2011:


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Old
06-13-2012, 10:42 PM
  #928
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I heard a part of it (I was in meetings for most of it). But they usually put a podcast of it up.

Also speculation that a NHL ownership group would consist of the Mccaw family, Along with Don Levin
Would be a logical tandem. One that Gary Bettman would trust with getting a team up and running in a jiffy, if so required.

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06-14-2012, 05:09 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
- Washington isn't anti-business. Our economy is currently one of the tops in the nation, driven by private enterprise. Your home state is anti-business, not mine.

- When did Washington stop sports venue construction? AAA Cheney Stadium in Tacoma, new Wenatchee Arena, ShoWare Center, Comcast Center, HUSKY STADIUM!? Have you even set foot into Washington before? You have said many incorrect things in your three brief posts!

- Read my above posts. New arena was ready to happen, but Okies needed to sell the team to Microsoft's Ballmer & Costco's Sinegal first. S-B were hoping the Schultz lawsuit and the city forcing the team to honor lease would force Bennett's to sell.

- The only reason the Sonics are gone is Howard Schultz sold team in a quick, late night sale, despite objections from junior partners. So quick that the Kansas City media got whiff of it first and yours truly had to tip off the Seattle Post-Intelligencer (R.I.P.) that the man buying the team was on record (in USA Today) as vowing to bring the NBA to OKC. Aubrey McClendon, founder of Chesapeake Energy admitted while team was still in Seattle that they had zero intention of keeping team in Seattle. That forced Howard Schultz to sue Bennett-McClendon to save face. That lawsuit was dropped after Nickles and Ceis caved in and settled the city's lease lawsuit.
Your correct. Washington State is way more pro business than almost any other state. When living in Nevada I knew people who still registered their car in WA to save $. Very much a pro business hub.

The starbucks guy wanted out and there wasn't a good arena situation to find a better bid than the OKC guy. Stern didn't see a new arena coming so couldn't care less about Seattle. Relocation and new arenas go hand in hand one didn't happen and the other did cause and effect relationship Stern underestimated Seattle but probably figured eventually they'd be back (around the same time they'd have replaced Key Arena cause it wasn't happening.)


An NHL team would rely greatly on regional support coming from over an hour drive. Locking in exclusively Saturday home games (like the Bruins have) and making NBA only play Fri and Sunday would be very important.


Sadly though the NBA team is going to be in the drivers seat, NHL sucess sort of depends on them being worse and in a more inconvenient location. A decent team sharing the same building will kill the NHL.

New Orleans or Sacramento should be in Seattle next fall IMO. Their team will be defending champs get basketball back there, even the WNBA team is past their prime.

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06-14-2012, 05:27 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
A decent team sharing the same building will kill the NHL.
No it won't.

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06-14-2012, 06:10 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
Your correct. Washington State is way more pro business than almost any other state. When living in Nevada I knew people who still registered their car in WA to save $. Very much a pro business hub.

The starbucks guy wanted out and there wasn't a good arena situation to find a better bid than the OKC guy. Stern didn't see a new arena coming so couldn't care less about Seattle. Relocation and new arenas go hand in hand one didn't happen and the other did cause and effect relationship Stern underestimated Seattle but probably figured eventually they'd be back (around the same time they'd have replaced Key Arena cause it wasn't happening.)


An NHL team would rely greatly on regional support coming from over an hour drive. Locking in exclusively Saturday home games (like the Bruins have) and making NBA only play Fri and Sunday would be very important.


Sadly though the NBA team is going to be in the drivers seat, NHL sucess sort of depends on them being worse and in a more inconvenient location. A decent team sharing the same building will kill the NHL.

New Orleans or Sacramento should be in Seattle next fall IMO. Their team will be defending champs get basketball back there, even the WNBA team is past their prime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
No it won't.
How so, gstommylee? I'm tending to agree with the previous poster here. An NHL team would likely depend on a significant regional draw, similar to that of the Mariners, and since it's pretty much public knowledge that Hansen is in this for the NBA, they would likely be the primary tenant in there. So how can an NHL team function in there under those conditions, especially since this market I don't think really has been tested out yet in terms of exhibition games, TV ratings, etc.? This area has only had ONE preseason game in recent history - that one up in Everett a few years ago - and our TV ratings numbers here are never going to be accurate for the Cup Finals because they don't account for the people who choose CBC over NBC. And as I believe someone said earlier here, with CBC on basic cable here locally, a lot of people watch that over Doc and Edzo. And of course, let's also not forget that most fans here are more familiar with the NBA than they are the NHL.

Not saying that I don't want an NHL team here or that I don't think it will work, but I think we need to be careful here about expecting the moon with this market. It'll be better than Phoenix, of course, but is this market a slam dunk success out of the gate? I'm not going that far.


Last edited by snovalleyhockeyfan: 06-14-2012 at 06:15 PM. Reason: clarity
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06-14-2012, 10:16 PM
  #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
Your correct. Washington State is way more pro business than almost any other state. When living in Nevada I knew people who still registered their car in WA to save $. Very much a pro business hub.

The starbucks guy wanted out and there wasn't a good arena situation to find a better bid than the OKC guy. Stern didn't see a new arena coming so couldn't care less about Seattle. Relocation and new arenas go hand in hand one didn't happen and the other did cause and effect relationship Stern underestimated Seattle but probably figured eventually they'd be back (around the same time they'd have replaced Key Arena cause it wasn't happening.)


An NHL team would rely greatly on regional support coming from over an hour drive. Locking in exclusively Saturday home games (like the Bruins have) and making NBA only play Fri and Sunday would be very important.


Sadly though the NBA team is going to be in the drivers seat, NHL sucess sort of depends on them being worse and in a more inconvenient location. A decent team sharing the same building will kill the NHL.

New Orleans or Sacramento should be in Seattle next fall IMO. Their team will be defending champs get basketball back there, even the WNBA team is past their prime.
won't be New Orleans, CTTEM, Hornets already will be under the umbrella OF Tom Benson will, per draft.....

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06-15-2012, 10:00 AM
  #933
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There was about 4-6k at least at the sonics rally yesterday. Let's hope it has a huge impact on the city and county council.

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06-15-2012, 10:11 AM
  #934
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
There was about 4-6k at least at the sonics rally yesterday. Let's hope it has a huge impact on the city and county council.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tml?cmpid=2628

For those of you who want to know more about what went down at yesterday's rally, here's an article about it from, gasp, the Times.

BTW, Mike Salk from 710 ESPN is taking on the Times editorial board:

http://mynorthwest.com/422/692788/Co...-Seattle-Times

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06-15-2012, 11:27 AM
  #935
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tml?cmpid=2628

For those of you who want to know more about what went down at yesterday's rally, here's an article about it from, gasp, the Times.

BTW, Mike Salk from 710 ESPN is taking on the Times editorial board:

http://mynorthwest.com/422/692788/Co...-Seattle-Times
I respect Salk more since he started taking on the times editorial board.

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06-15-2012, 01:17 PM
  #936
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I respect Salk more since he started taking on the times editorial board.
Same here.

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06-15-2012, 03:11 PM
  #937
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KOMO's Ken Schram latest media figure to announce support for new arena

I want to make all of you aware that the arena will be the subject of tonight's commentary by Ken Schram on KOMO 4 News at 6:00:

http://www.komonews.com/opinion/kens...159220165.html

"Schrambo" is in support of new arena, and suggests politicians should pay attention to the groundswell of arena support that was seen yesterday.

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06-15-2012, 03:38 PM
  #938
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More media support for arena:

Everett Herald

The Wenatchee World

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Old
06-15-2012, 04:27 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
I want to make all of you aware that the arena will be the subject of tonight's commentary by Ken Schram on KOMO 4 News at 6:00:

http://www.komonews.com/opinion/kens...159220165.html

"Schrambo" is in support of new arena, and suggests politicians should pay attention to the groundswell of arena support that was seen yesterday.
That's a surprise to see schram supporting the arena.

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06-15-2012, 06:47 PM
  #940
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That's a surprise to see schram supporting the arena.
I think what Schram is looking at here is in the numbers. 3,500 or whatever the hell number of people that were down there yesterday (the anti-arena commenters on the Times comment board on that story I linked earlier seem to think there was not as many people there as it looked) may only be a fraction of the kind of actual support there really is. If Hansen, let's say, could have rented out Key Arena tonight or tomorrow for a rally similar to yesterday's, there's a good chance based on the numbers from yesterday that they would have jammed the place to the gills.

Schram may be suggesting here that this issue may be something that incumbent pols could use to help grab a few extra votes this fall. Although I will say that there has only been one race the last four years where I feel the Sonics' loss cost the incumbent his office, and that was the Seattle City Attorney's race last time around three years ago, when Tom Carr got tossed out and replaced by the existing city attorney, Pete Holmes, who strangely has not been asked by anyone his view on this proposal. I would have to guess Holmes would have to look it over to make sure it complies with that I-91, no?

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06-15-2012, 06:56 PM
  #941
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question: could the Tacoma Dome be a temp venue for an NHL team?

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Old
06-15-2012, 07:02 PM
  #942
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question: could the Tacoma Dome be a temp venue for an NHL team?
No. They removed the ice rink equipment years ago.

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06-15-2012, 07:06 PM
  #943
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Originally Posted by snovalleyhockeyfan View Post
I think what Schram is looking at here is in the numbers. 3,500 or whatever the hell number of people that were down there yesterday (the anti-arena commenters on the Times comment board on that story I linked earlier seem to think there was not as many people there as it looked) may only be a fraction of the kind of actual support there really is. If Hansen, let's say, could have rented out Key Arena tonight or tomorrow for a rally similar to yesterday's, there's a good chance based on the numbers from yesterday that they would have jammed the place to the gills.

Schram may be suggesting here that this issue may be something that incumbent pols could use to help grab a few extra votes this fall. Although I will say that there has only been one race the last four years where I feel the Sonics' loss cost the incumbent his office, and that was the Seattle City Attorney's race last time around three years ago, when Tom Carr got tossed out and replaced by the existing city attorney, Pete Holmes, who strangely has not been asked by anyone his view on this proposal. I would have to guess Holmes would have to look it over to make sure it complies with that I-91, no?
If the rally was on a Saturday at the Key arena we would hit over 10k.

Pete Holmes has been involved with the arena process since day 1 and i think a independent lawyer that has a expertise of sport laws i believe is also involved. So Holmes is aware of what the MOU says.

Plus on June 29th the city council committee has a meeting involved the arena proposal and I-91.

But good grief the the anti-arena commenters are annoying as heck on so many levels.

I happen to agree with Schram regarding the election. If this arena deal gets voted down it'll become an election issue and will be used against those that voted it down.


Last edited by gstommylee: 06-15-2012 at 07:12 PM.
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06-15-2012, 11:24 PM
  #944
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If it's got such wide public support, why not put it to a referendum in Seattle and King County? The referendum could even include clause exempting itself from I-91, thereby pre-empting a potential court challenge.

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06-15-2012, 11:55 PM
  #945
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If it's got such wide public support, why not put it to a referendum in Seattle and King County? The referendum could even include clause exempting itself from I-91, thereby pre-empting a potential court challenge.
There doesn't need to be another public vote. The seattle voters had their say with I-91. Doing another vote is meaningless nevermind they would just voter it down anyways. The issue is not everyone actually taken their time to read the agreement and some believe that they are going to be forced to pay for it regardless of what the agreement says thus voting against it on the false assumption that they will have to pay for it.

Although the last time there was a sports related item was the WNBA storm's lease and the city couldn't prove that was I-91 complaint and passed resolution making it exempt from I-91. But this is too big of an issue to try to pull that.

The thing is with I-91 it was never actually tested. This is the first major sports facility proposal since I-91 was approved by the voters.


Last edited by gstommylee: 06-16-2012 at 12:09 AM.
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06-16-2012, 12:22 AM
  #946
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If it's got such wide public support, why not put it to a referendum in Seattle and King County?
It would take too long. It would pass and isn't controversial, so let the elected leaders do their job and get the thing rolling ASAP so Hansen and company can go shopping for some teams.

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06-16-2012, 07:40 AM
  #947
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There doesn't need to be another public vote. The seattle voters had their say with I-91. Doing another vote is meaningless nevermind they would just voter it down anyways. The issue is not everyone actually taken their time to read the agreement and some believe that they are going to be forced to pay for it regardless of what the agreement says thus voting against it on the false assumption that they will have to pay for it.

Although the last time there was a sports related item was the WNBA storm's lease and the city couldn't prove that was I-91 complaint and passed resolution making it exempt from I-91. But this is too big of an issue to try to pull that.

The thing is with I-91 it was never actually tested. This is the first major sports facility proposal since I-91 was approved by the voters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuclear SUV View Post
It would take too long. It would pass and isn't controversial, so let the elected leaders do their job and get the thing rolling ASAP so Hansen and company can go shopping for some teams.
Both of you are right, but Nuclear, I think that if this went to a public vote (all of King County BTW would get to vote since the county also has tax skin in this game) it would probably fail, I'd estimate 60-40%. Especially if they ran the thing in November with the large conservative vote which is likely for the general election.

GS, the issue IMO is not that people haven't taken the time to read the damn thing, it's that people don't want to read the damn thing and want to just use the same talking points they have used for years on this issue. Ignorance by convenience. They're not going to care that the taxes raised from this come from the arena only, they see tax money is involved and they immediately think "Oh, I'm going to pay!" then they oppose it. And it doesn't help that the Times editorial board is feeding a lot of this in their pages, I think because they are in cahoots with the Port.

This same attitude exists all over this region - anyone remember the vote several years back on a bond to help pay for basic modernization and upgrades at the T-Dome which failed? And you wonder why they had to get a private DONATION in order to clean the roof down there recently.

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06-17-2012, 12:25 AM
  #948
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Originally Posted by gstommylee View Post
There doesn't need to be another public vote. The seattle voters had their say with I-91. Doing another vote is meaningless nevermind they would just voter it down anyways. The issue is not everyone actually taken their time to read the agreement and some believe that they are going to be forced to pay for it regardless of what the agreement says thus voting against it on the false assumption that they will have to pay for it.
Interesting attitude from from a resident of a country that participates in toppling dictatorships around the planet, in the name of promoting democracy.

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06-17-2012, 10:56 AM
  #949
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The US and local governments are actually Republics, not democracy. We elect representatives to govern. In addition, we are allowed to participate by initiatives and referendums - but why let facts get in the way of a good, old fashioned "the US is evil" rant.

BTW - speaking of initiatives, the city of Seattle already passed an initiative on stadium funding and it passed. It says the city must receive a return on its investment equal to the rate on 30yr US treasury bonds (currently 2.7% or so). If this deal complies with that already passed initiative why should there be another vote? Should opponents who filed that initiative get to just keep on voting and voting until they get the desired result?

See, the founding father's saw this likely outcome, which is why we are are a Republic, not a democracy. We elect representatives to lead ... let them lead.

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06-17-2012, 01:35 PM
  #950
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Interesting attitude from from a resident of a country that participates in toppling dictatorships around the planet, in the name of promoting democracy.
So why are you taking this off topic?

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