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Brian Burke and the Leafs and Canucks

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Old
03-02-2012, 03:51 PM
  #1
Stephen
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Brian Burke and the Leafs and Canucks

If you look at Brian Burke's Leafs today, I think you'll find a lot of similarities to the Canucks team he had in the early 2000s. Starting up front, we have two wingers in Kessel and Lupul spearheading the attack. One is more of a skilled sniper with speed, the other is a bit more physical and plays with a bit of an edge. This seems to reflect the Naslund, Bertuzzi combo Vancouver had, the differences between those two's playing styles and the great chemistry they had. Our top two centers, Grabovski and Bozak, are smallish skilled guys who look a bit like Cassels and Morrison, both good players who were a notch below our two best wingers. Beyond that, the Leafs probably have a better stable of depth on the NHL roster, but both teams seem to be populated by a lot of 'temporary' players. We have Connolly, Armstorng, Lombardi, Crabb, they had Letowski, Hlavac, etc. The Canucks had the advantage of having the Sedins and Kesler and Burrows in the system, while we have Kadri, Colborne, Frattin playing part time roles, with a bunch of guys like Biggs, Ashton, etc in the system. The Canucks had Linden and Klatt as respectable good veteran voices, while we have none.

On defense, they were led by Jovanovski, which is our Phaneuf. They had a steady Swedish defenseman in Ohlund, we have an Ohlund lite in Gunnarsson. They had big young defensive defensemen in Brent Sopel and Bryan Allen, we have Luke Schenn and up till recently, Keith Aulie. They don't seem to have an answer for Liles as a veteran puck mover, or Jake Gardiner as a young puck mover with a lot of potential.

In net, they had Dan Cloutier/Felix Potvin/Garth Snow/Arturs Irbe/Sean Burke for a few years, while we've struggled with Toskala, Gustavsson, Giguere and Reimer the past few years.

They had a coach who probably stayed beyond his best before date in Marc Crawford, we have Ron Wilson.

Seems like Burke is following a personal blueprint of sorts after all. Whether things play out the way they do in Vancouver, we might get some clues about what Burke will get up to in the future by looking at his history with the Canucks...

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Old
03-02-2012, 03:53 PM
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hackm
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Vancouver was about a 15 year rebuild that didn't click until Burke was long gone.

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03-02-2012, 03:55 PM
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trentmccleary
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Sopel was a mistake prone offensive D-man in Vancouver.

Also, I wouldn't compare Kadri, Colborne and Frattin to the Sedin's and Kesler.

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03-02-2012, 04:08 PM
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The canucks didn't turn it around until Burke left and Nonis then traded for Luongo.
In fact, Burke struggled with goaltending for several years.
The leafs are on year 4 with Burke as GM

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03-02-2012, 04:14 PM
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So once Burke leaves and Nonis takes over, we can expect to trade for Cam Ward or Carey Price next to nothing, get to the SCFs and lose to the Sharks off a series of soft goals.

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03-02-2012, 04:15 PM
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Thrillingbroom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Sopel was a mistake prone offensive D-man in Vancouver.

Also, I wouldn't compare Kadri, Colborne and Frattin to the Sedin's and Kesler.
He said the Canucks had the advantage with Sedins and Kesler. Comparing doesn't mean they're equivalent.

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03-02-2012, 04:16 PM
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YogiCanucks
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I've been pretty critical of Burke (as I'm sure many of you know) but one thing he WILL do is ice very exciting teams. I think you can already see that with Lupul and Kessel (basically West Coast Express... out East).

In order of best to worst

Winning and Exciting - Canucks/Philly
Winning and Boring - St Louis/Nashville
Losing and Exciting - Leafs/LOLilers
Losing and Boring - Canucks circa 2006-2008

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03-02-2012, 04:24 PM
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GhettoHockey
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yeah the leafs are a young team who had a constant streak of really bad GM's... If only Burke really understood the structural problems to the team he might have not traded for Kessel, which in my opinion was his only bad move aside from not firing ron wilson.. b ut that aside the vancouver-Toronto comparison seems pretty legit... I think there is light at the end of the tunnel with Burkes plan...

What i mean is its kinda dumb and illogical for leafs fans to expect to go from a crap ass team 5 years ago to a team now that can contend and out-play teams like Detroit, Vancouver, Boston, Nashville.. etc etc... who have building properly for quite some time.
Also its dumb and illogical for Brian Burke to do the same thing with the leafs media and set a 5 year agenda... deep down he knows its not a 5 year rebuild but he has to play face in the media which is his job as the Leafs GM.. this is a long term process.

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03-02-2012, 04:29 PM
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Wonder if Wetcoaster has sniffed this out yet.

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03-02-2012, 04:43 PM
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Wonder if Wetcoaster has sniffed this out yet.
His Ctrl+V buttons are probably broken by now.

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03-02-2012, 04:48 PM
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Vancouver was about a 15 year rebuild that didn't click until Burke was long gone.
And u can argue Burke and NONIS built there team to what it is today. (Vancouver)

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03-02-2012, 04:51 PM
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Vancouver was about a 15 year rebuild that didn't click until the Sedins and Kesler hit their prime
this is more accurate

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03-02-2012, 04:54 PM
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I see a lot of Vancouver fans defecating on Burke and Nonis, but it should be noted their three most important players were all Burke/Nonis pickups.

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03-02-2012, 04:57 PM
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I see a lot of Vancouver fans defecating on Burke and Nonis, but it should be noted their three most important players were all Burke/Nonis pickups.
Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa were during Burke's time as GM. Luongo was picked up by Nonis? Someone will correct me. Their core was pretty much built by Burke

oh and in before a Canucks fan praises Gillis for re-signing them, lol.

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03-02-2012, 04:58 PM
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Goes to show it takes time.

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03-02-2012, 05:01 PM
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Burke got them the Sedins, Kevin Bieksa and Ryan Kesler. Nonis got them Roberto Luongo, Alex Burrows, Alex Edler and Mason Raymond. It's fair to say that those two men built the Canucks to what they are today and NOT Gillis. Upper management didn't have the patience to wait it out with both of them. It took time for most of those mentioned above to develop into quality players.

So why do most Nucks fans hate them again?

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03-02-2012, 05:05 PM
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Canucks fans HATE Burke for winning the cup in Anaheim

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03-02-2012, 05:06 PM
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Winreims
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vezna View Post
Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa were during Burke's time as GM. Luongo was picked up by Nonis? Someone will correct me. Their core was pretty much built by Burke

oh and in before a Canucks fan praises Gillis for re-signing them, lol.
So true.

Similar situation with Tallon in Chicago. He built the cup winning team while Stan Bowman contributed nothing.

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03-02-2012, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
Burke got them the Sedins, Kevin Bieksa and Ryan Kesler. Nonis got them Roberto Luongo, Alex Burrows, Alex Edler and Mason Raymond. It's fair to say that those two men built the Canucks to what they are today and NOT Gillis. Upper management didn't have the patience to wait it out with both of them. It took time for most of those mentioned above to develop into quality players.

So why do most Nucks fans hate them again?
Had no patience for a rebuild process and even though the fruits of that rebuild allow them to act smug now they won't let it go. Not that that makes them much different from a lot of the people in here.

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03-02-2012, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
Burke got them the Sedins, Kevin Bieksa and Ryan Kesler. Nonis got them Roberto Luongo, Alex Burrows, Alex Edler and Mason Raymond. It's fair to say that those two men built the Canucks to what they are today and NOT Gillis. Upper management didn't have the patience to wait it out with both of them. It took time for most of those mentioned above to develop into quality players.

So why do most Nucks fans hate them again?
This is why I really hope ownership is patient enough with them to let this all pan out. We really are starting to have a very bright future in Leaf Nation, though it's still a couple years away from truly bearing fruit, it seems. I'd rather be patient and see a young team built that can compete for a long, long time, than see a quick-fix win-now team be assembled just because it's faster. Faster does not mean better.

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03-02-2012, 05:13 PM
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LeafOfBread
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Originally Posted by vezna View Post
Kesler, Sedins, Edler, Bieksa were during Burke's time as GM. Luongo was picked up by Nonis? Someone will correct me. Their core was pretty much built by Burke

oh and in before a Canucks fan praises Gillis for re-signing them, lol.
Pretty sure Edler was a Nonis draft pick. Burke's contract was not renewed right after the playoffs ended in '04, so I'm pretty sure Nonis was there at the draft. And yes Luongo was a Nonis trade.

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Old
03-02-2012, 05:17 PM
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Winreims
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Originally Posted by IBeL13f View Post
This is why I really hope ownership is patient enough with them to let this all pan out. We really are starting to have a very bright future in Leaf Nation, though it's still a couple years away from truly bearing fruit, it seems. I'd rather be patient and see a young team built that can compete for a long, long time, than see a quick-fix win-now team be assembled just because it's faster. Faster does not mean better.
I agree. I have patience with Burke, but it's a different situation with Ron... But Vancouver's situation years ago with Burke was much different than ours. They weren't going through a "normal" rebuild. They still managed to make the playoffs on a consistant basis WHILE picking up great players in the draft. That's what seperates us from them back then. Burke hasn't been able to get this team into one playoff spot in four years. And when you add those four years with the other four years we've missed the playoffs, fans are getting even more restless.

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03-02-2012, 05:18 PM
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Kessel. Lupol, Grigs/Gal/Forsberg, Grabo vs. Sedins, Kesler, Burrows

Schenn, Gardiner, Phaneuf vs. Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis

If it works out that way I could see it. Kadri sitll has the potential to be slotted in the forward portion somewhere.

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03-02-2012, 05:21 PM
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IBeL13f
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Originally Posted by Winreims View Post
I agree. I have patience with Burke, but it's a different situation with Ron... But Vancouver's situation years ago with Burke was much different than ours. They weren't going through a "normal" rebuild. They still managed to make the playoffs on a consistant basis WHILE picking up great players in the draft. That's what seperates us from them back then. Burke hasn't been able to get this team into one playoff spot in four years. And when you add those four years with the other four years we've missed the playoffs, fans are getting even more restless.
For sure. I guess that because I look at the Burke-era Leafs and the Pre-Burke-era Leafs as two totally different things I just assume other people look at it that way too.

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03-02-2012, 05:22 PM
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number72
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Originally Posted by IBeL13f View Post
This is why I really hope ownership is patient enough with them to let this all pan out. We really are starting to have a very bright future in Leaf Nation, though it's still a couple years away from truly bearing fruit, it seems. I'd rather be patient and see a young team built that can compete for a long, long time, than see a quick-fix win-now team be assembled just because it's faster. Faster does not mean better.
I agree with faster is not better. And Burke did himself no favours with his hot air suggestion to fans that he was not interested in long 5 year rebuild but rather an accelerated retool.

The important thing is what he promised MLSE in terms of the rebuild and if likewise he talked up and promised a quick couple year ducks style retool. Given the ownership change, he may survive for a while.

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