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So you want a gritty, two-way forward, who can play 2C or 3W, scores 40-50 points most years (but is having an off year), and will be making over 4M a year for the next few years. You want another Brooks Laich. Personally, I think Laich is overpaid, and I've got no interest in giving up major assets for another one. If we're making a big move over the summer, it should be for someone who can actually play 2C, like Plekanec or Zajac.
Difference is: Duby is younger, in my humble opinion has bigger offensive upside and also brings more physical/agitating play to the table.
Habs won't deal Plek; that's crazy talk.
Same with Zajac.
So what's better: to stand pat (again?!) or pull off a deal that might turn to be a success (it might not) and fix our problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TullyNYR
Far from it. NY is the best place for the game he plays.
For his style of play - yes, but does he really want to get <16 mins TOI/G? I think he'd rather play somewhere where he'll get more ice.
Johansson, the lesser of the Caps 2 1st's and the rights to Wideman for Dubinsky and Sauer.
Johansson can easily slot in as 3C, the 1st can be used as a piece if NYR want to go after the rights of Parise, and they get a chance to sign Wideman to be PPQB/2nd pair puckmover they need before free agency.
Dubinsky brings a lot of intangibles that the Caps need. Grit, charachter, leadership, two-way play, versatility among other things, can play 2C but is probably better as 2LW. Sauer could be a really good complement to Orlov.
Johansson, the lesser of the Caps 2 1st's and the rights to Wideman for Dubinsky and Sauer.
Johansson can easily slot in as 3C, the 1st can be used as a piece if NYR want to go after the rights of Parise, and they get a chance to sign Wideman to be PPQB/2nd pair puckmover they need before free agency.
Dubinsky brings a lot of intangibles that the Caps need. Grit, charachter, leadership, two-way play, versatility among other things, can play 2C but is probably better as 2LW. Sauer could be a really good complement to Orlov.
1. Johansson won't be traded. NYR have Anisimov/Stepan for 2/3C.
2. NO WAY rights for ANY UFA player cost you a 1st. Look at Ehrhoff, Wisniewski, Hamhuis, etc.
3. Caps don't need a D unless they trade Hamrlik AND lose Wideman. If they do either, they don't need another D having Marshall, Kundratek and McNeill who can be situational recalls. They have 7 in Hamr/Wides, Orlov, Green, Carlson, Alzner, Ersk, Schultz.
For his style of play - yes, but does he really want to get <16 mins TOI/G? I think he'd rather play somewhere where he'll get more ice.
Tortorella will give him more TOI when Dubinsky deserves that time on ice in terms of point production, and Dubinsky knows that. He also wouldn't rather play somewhere else, as he loves New York.
Difference is: Duby is younger, in my humble opinion has bigger offensive upside and also brings more physical/agitating play to the table.
Habs won't deal Plek; that's crazy talk.
Same with Zajac.
So what's better: to stand pat (again?!) or pull off a deal that might turn to be a success (it might not) and fix our problems.
Dubinsky's just 3 years younger than Laich. He's also only reached 50 points once (while Laich's done it twice) so I don't know what your basing your offensive assessment on. Dubinsky might be a little grittier, but it's not a big difference.
As for Pleks and Zajac... If Habs fans are to be believed, Eller and Desharnais make Plekanec expendable, especially if the return will help them rebuild. Zajac is more of a pipe dream, but the Devils are doing pretty well without him. With Zubrus' recent play and Henrique's great season, it's not out of the question that he could be moved.
Dubinsky's just 3 years younger than Laich. He's also only reached 50 points once (while Laich's done it twice) so I don't know what your basing your offensive assessment on. Dubinsky might be a little grittier, but it's not a big difference.
As for Pleks and Zajac... If Habs fans are to be believed, Eller and Desharnais make Plekanec expendable, especially if the return will help them rebuild. Zajac is more of a pipe dream, but the Devils are doing pretty well without him. With Zubrus' recent play and Henrique's great season, it's not out of the question that he could be moved.
Don't believe the Habs fans
Three years is not "just". 3 years means Laich had 3 more attempts to reach that 50 point plateau.
Dubi has 337 hits and 253 PIM in last three seasons. Laich has 304 and 105 respectively. Though they ARE similar (no doubt), but I still think that as an offensive force and agitator, Dubi is more talented. Also, look at this. Points at the age:
1. Johansson won't be traded. NYR have Anisimov/Stepan for 2/3C.
2. NO WAY rights for ANY UFA player cost you a 1st. Look at Ehrhoff, Wisniewski, Hamhuis, etc.
3. Caps don't need a D unless they trade Hamrlik AND lose Wideman. If they do either, they don't need another D having Marshall, Kundratek and McNeill who can be situational recalls. They have 7 in Hamr/Wides, Orlov, Green, Carlson, Alzner, Ersk, Schultz.
1. Either of them can play W.
2. I don't think you can compare either of those UFA's to Parise, but ok it might be steep. So instead you pick at no. 16 (?), not the worst idea either.
3. Wideman shouldn't be resigned, Caps don't have that capspace. Erskine, Hamrlik and Schultz are all not good enough to be part of a contenders top-6, at least 2 of them shuld be traded. So yes, Sauer would be gladly welcomed!
2. I don't think you can compare either of those UFA's to Parise, but ok it might be steep. So instead you pick at no. 16 (?), not the worst idea either.
3. Wideman shouldn't be resigned, Caps don't have that capspace. Erskine, Hamrlik and Schultz are all not good enough to be part of a contenders top-6, at least 2 of them shuld be traded. So yes, Sauer would be gladly welcomed!
1. But for the Caps, trading away MJ90 doesn't make sense. My idea was to put Dubi and MaJo on the same line. MaJo is more of a playmaker, Dubi is more defensive-minded.
2. Agreed.
3. Caps have 20 million assuming cap stays at 64,3. 8 guys to sign. Most key players (aside from Green and Carlson) are signed. Carly won't get a huge contract, I think around 2M-ish. So they have space. The question is if they want to use it on Wideman. And I don't think GMGM will trade THAT many d-men. In his interviews he made it clear he isn't going for an overhaul whatsoever.
I don't think Dubinsky is good enough as a 2C solution. If the Caps are gonna spend significant assets, would rather they look elsewhere..
Names? Dubinsky to me looks like the only solid centerman on the block now. Everybody else will take much more to get him. Though signing Grabovski as an UFA is an option, I think he'll sign in T.O.
Names? Dubinsky to me looks like the only solid centerman on the block now. Everybody else will take much more to get him. Though signing Grabovski as an UFA is an option, I think he'll sign in T.O.
Well, it's hard to talk about who's gonna be available in the summer. But it doesn't really matter, because either way I don't see Dubinsky as the answer.
The Caps need a legit 2C.
If a legit 2C is available for a bearable price, for the sake of argument lets say Plekanec, I'd rather the Caps spend the assets to go after a guy like that. If it costs more, so be it.
If a legit 2C is not available, I wouldn't want the Caps to get someone just for the sake of getting someone. That doesn't make sense to me. A marginal upgrade over the current options at center is not going to get us anywhere.
Until the Caps find a legit 2C and (hopefully) "the big stabilizer" on D, I wouldn't want to them to spend prime assets on complementary players, unless it's some sort of an amazing deal..
1. But for the Caps, trading away MJ90 doesn't make sense. My idea was to put Dubi and MaJo on the same line. MaJo is more of a playmaker, Dubi is more defensive-minded.
2. Agreed.
3. Caps have 20 million assuming cap stays at 64,3. 8 guys to sign. Most key players (aside from Green and Carlson) are signed. Carly won't get a huge contract, I think around 2M-ish. So they have space. The question is if they want to use it on Wideman. And I don't think GMGM will trade THAT many d-men. In his interviews he made it clear he isn't going for an overhaul whatsoever.
IMO, Johansson shouldn't be a 2C on a contender. I'd like Dubinsky as a 2LW, but that spot should belong to Laich, who's overpaid for 3C and not skilled enough for 2C.
I wish our 2nd unit would be Laich-Zajac-Semin next season, and that GMGM could sign Stoll as 3C for < $3M and play him with Brouwer and Chimera. Ward is great defensively, but overpaid as well, and if McPhee has as chance to get rid of his contract, he should. He also needs to find a dance partner for Ovie and Backy, preferably one that can create chances on his own (ie. Bobby Ryan).
The capspace should not be used for Wideman. It should be for a steady partner to Green. If Hamrlik, Ward and Schultz is gone, that's 9 more million in capspace they can throw at Suter.
I still do feel that Sauer would be a great fit with Orlov. What would it take to get him from the Rags?
How badass would this lineup be:
Ovechkin-Bäckström-Ryan
Laich-Zajac-Semin
Chimera-Stoll-Brouwer
Hendricks-Halpern-UFA/Beagle/rookie?
Suter-Green
Alzner-Carlson
Orlov-Sauer
Erskine
Schneider-Holtby
Kuznetsov + Ward + Schultz + 1st for Bobby Ryan
Johansson + Neuvirth + 3rd for Zajac
B's 2nd + Eakin + rights to Wideman for Sauer?
1st + Hamrlik + Kundratek/Marshall/Galiev for Schneider
Kuznetsov + Ward + Schultz + 1st for Bobby Ryan
Johansson + Neuvirth + 3rd for Zajac
B's 2nd + Eakin + rights to Wideman for Sauer?
1st + Hamrlik + Kundratek/Marshall/Galiev for Schneider
Are you really planning on trading 13 pieces and only get 4 back? Is this NHL 12?
Are you really planning on trading 13 pieces and only get 4 back? Is this NHL 12?
I've never played it so I don't know. And of course it's just a pipe dream, I realize that it'd never happen... But you wouldn't jump on this if the opportunity arose? And are they far off from being close value-wise?
I've never played it so I don't know. And of course it's just a pipe dream, I realize that it'd never happen... But you wouldn't jump on this if the opportunity arose? And are they far off from being close value-wise?
I've never played it so I don't know. And of course it's just a pipe dream, I realize that it'd never happen... But you wouldn't jump on this if the opportunity arose? And are they far off from being close value-wise?
Those are all good deals for the Caps IMO but I don't see any of the other 4 teams doing it. Nobody likes to be on the "receiving quantity" end of quantity-for-quality deals so whether or not they're fair value-wise is beside the point. All teams are trying to upgrade and the Caps are the only team upgrading in any of those deals.
I've never played it so I don't know. And of course it's just a pipe dream, I realize that it'd never happen... But you wouldn't jump on this if the opportunity arose? And are they far off from being close value-wise?
I don't want Bobby Ryan. Unless for almost free, which is never gonna happen.
Difference is: Duby is younger, in my humble opinion has bigger offensive upside and also brings more physical/agitating play to the table.
Habs won't deal Plek; that's crazy talk.
Same with Zajac.
So what's better: to stand pat (again?!) or pull off a deal that might turn to be a success (it might not) and fix our problems.
For his style of play - yes, but does he really want to get <16 mins TOI/G? I think he'd rather play somewhere where he'll get more ice.
Agree. Dubi is obviously complete but like most Rangers has stunted numbers on offense because of Torts D first system. Most Rangers IMO, would have better numbers elsewhere just because of this.
Don't like that deal because those picks will be very late. I think Caps will pick at about 10th and 16th (still believe we'll squeeze into the playoffs to get beaten up by you or Bruins in the first round).
Bold: that's why you are getting two firsts and Dubi without other assets required. If the Ranger picks were earlier I'd want more. Gotta give to get.
Counter-proposal compromise:
Rangers send 2013 1st + Dubinsky
for
Caps earlier of 2 first round 2012 picks, we are estimating at 10.
Rangers keep this year's 2012 first as you keep your estimated 16th.
Rangers give their pick next year, not this year.
Caps give only the one higher pick at 10th.
Bold: that's why you are getting two firsts and Dubi without other assets required. If the Ranger picks were earlier I'd want more. Gotta give to get.
Counter-proposal compromise:
Rangers send 2013 1st + Dubinsky
for
Caps earlier of 2 first round 2012 picks, we are estimating at 10.
Rangers keep this year's 2012 first as you keep your estimated 16th.
Rangers give their pick next year, not this year.
Caps give only the one higher pick at 10th.
Deal?
Fine tuning?
Yes. But since we're talking the draft time, if NYR will pick 24th (win the division but fail in the playoffs), I think I'd take the pick this year. But not 28th-30th. Taking next year's pick is something you can't predict and I don't like that. So what about changing 2013 to 2012?
Actually, Dubinsky is a very low price for trading up from 24 to 10.
