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LOL at Leaf fans saying Seabrook has been garbage. If he's garbage, Phaneuf is AHL quality.
Right, that's why he's been top-ten in D scoring this season...or are the offensive numbers of any defenseman not named Erik Karlsson totally irrelevant to the point?
I'm not here to blow him or say he's elite; he is an adequate - not a good, but not a bad - number one who is at times elite and at times infuriating and is overpaid by about 1.5, but AHL quality? He and Seabs are on the same level (and if anything Dion is superior all-around, Seabs better D). Dumbest thing that anyone has said almost ever.
What is he worth? Certainly more than we gave up for him.
Yup, I won't trade him for anything less. The first thing people forget is I don't have to trade him. I can keep him and if you want him you have to overpay.
Just look at Nash's offer. NYR offered incredibly deal but Howson declined because he knows he can get a better deal.
Sorry.. I inadvertantly omitted the word "bad" from my previous post. It should have read "a pretty bad trade demand".
Regarding Phaneuf, you'd have to trade him at some point before he hits the UFA market, assuming that he'll want to test the FA market, of course. In such a situation, it might then be better to just let him walk. At least you'd end up with a lot of reclaimed cap space and a newly-opened contract slot.
As for the Rangers offer for Nash, that was a gross overpayment in my book. The fact that Howseon turned it down just shows every other GM that he's a greedy SOB. I can't see any other GM offering up more than that for the likes of Rick Nash. If anything, any other offers for Rick Nash will likely be of far less value than the one NYR offered.
And if any GM DOES happen to pay more than what NYR offered, than that GM will very likely be seen as a fool.
You're not alone buddy. I have never really been that high on him. Sure he will score some goals, lay some big hits and be a loud player but when you really break his defensive game down it leaves you so underwhelmed. He makes sloppy pass's, makes bad reads pinching, gets regularly out of position in the defensive zone and just generally shows a lack of hockeysense every night. He really needs to just slow his game down and play at the pace of the game rather then always trying to force something. I started a thread years ago when he played for Calgary saying he was soo overrated and people ripped me. His defensive game is a little better now then it was then, but that isnt saying much because he was a outright gongshow defensively with the Flames.
If you think putting up points and laying big hits makes you a good defecemen then Phaneuf will impress you. If you look at things like making smart defensive plays, being solid with the puck, positioning, knowing when to pinch, knowing how to angle oncoming speed to the boards then Phaneuf will really leave you wanting more. They really need to scale back his 5 on 5 icetime by about 2 minutes and will instantly become a better defensive unit because of it.
Agreed. I've never been a Phaneuf fan and seriously doubt I ever will be.
Right, that's why he's been top-ten in D scoring this season...or are the offensive numbers of any defenseman not named Erik Karlsson totally irrelevant to the point?
I'm not here to blow him or say he's elite; he is an adequate - not a good, but not a bad - number one who is at times elite and at times infuriating and is overpaid by about 1.5, but AHL quality? He and Seabs are on the same level (and if anything Dion is superior all-around, Seabs better D). Dumbest thing that anyone has said almost ever.
What is he worth? Certainly more than we gave up for him.
I never said he is AHL quality. I said if Seabs is garbage than Phaneuf is AHL quality...neither is true.
But Seabrook is the better all around Dman, with Phaneuf a shade better offensively...if at all.
Good for Phaneuf, he finally had another season where he got more than 32pts, he still sucks defensively.
You're not alone buddy. I have never really been that high on him. Sure he will score some goals, lay some big hits and be a loud player but when you really break his defensive game down it leaves you so underwhelmed. He makes sloppy pass's, makes bad reads pinching, gets regularly out of position in the defensive zone and just generally shows a lack of hockeysense every night. He really needs to just slow his game down and play at the pace of the game rather then always trying to force something. I started a thread years ago when he played for Calgary saying he was soo overrated and people ripped me. His defensive game is a little better now then it was then, but that isnt saying much because he was a outright gongshow defensively with the Flames.
If you think putting up points and laying big hits makes you a good defecemen then Phaneuf will impress you. If you look at things like making smart defensive plays, being solid with the puck, positioning, knowing when to pinch, knowing how to angle oncoming speed to the boards then Phaneuf will really leave you wanting more. They really need to scale back his 5 on 5 icetime by about 2 minutes and will instantly become a better defensive unit because of it.
Phaneuf was very sheltered in Calgary. He a 3-5 years younger Regehr and a slew of other very experienced d-men to play with.
....makes me sad to think about what the Flames could have got for Phaneuf if they'd traded him at the right time.
... since Gardiner is essentially our #1 (...) we are in a fine position ... and it showed tonight, ...
Did you write this post new or just find one from last year about Aulie or the year before about Gunnersson or the year before about Stralman? Who was it before that Pilar? Bell? Then Colaiacovo?
Who is on the schedule for next year Blacker or Percy?
Many (not all) of you (Leaf fans) are like this with goalies as well, every year you have the next NHL superstar and then by March you are excusing your garbage D-men blaming your garbage goalie.
Phaneuf is a good D-man. Not really intelligent enough for a good team to ice at a really crucial time ... like late in a close cup finals game. He's good, not 6.5 million good, just good. I do not think you will have buyers lining up. You either get crap in return (like you gave up) or you get some value while eating a bad deal in the return.
Play him as your 3rd/4th line energy guy/goon. Play him on the point on the PP.
Bascially a 12th forward/7th dman.
He would then be the best player in his role, had he been used that way since he came into the NHL.
I'm as unbiased as it can be, Phaneuf never was a threat on the ice against my team.
I never thought I would say this, but Phaneuf has gone from being overrated to severely underrated. He is not getting any respect here at all. If we didn't have him we would be much worse off right now than we are.
Hockey IQ is lacking and it's one of my favourite qualities in a player. I still wouldn't trade him for a late pick and some other mediocre assets because, believe it or not, he still has some positive qualities to his game. I hope he's usurped by another defenseman on our roster and plays some sheltered minutes with lots of PP time
Did you write this post new or just find one from last year about Aulie or the year before about Gunnersson or the year before about Stralman? Who was it before that Pilar? Bell? Then Colaiacovo?
Who is on the schedule for next year Blacker or Percy?
Many (not all) of you (Leaf fans) are like this with goalies as well, every year you have the next NHL superstar and then by March you are excusing your garbage D-men blaming your garbage goalie.
Phaneuf is a good D-man. Not really intelligent enough for a good team to ice at a really crucial time ... like late in a close cup finals game. He's good, not 6.5 million good, just good. I do not think you will have buyers lining up. You either get crap in return (like you gave up) or you get some value while eating a bad deal in the return.
no i have only said that Gunns is a solid top 4 dman; which he is .... Gardiner is oozing with talent, whether you see it or not, i frankly do not care ... management is VERY high in him; as are many of our fans
and yes, both Blacker (who i am VERY high on) and Percy will both be good dmen .. assuming Percy's injuries do not set him back anymore ... he's one of the smartest passers i have ever seen play in the O
I never thought I would say this, but Phaneuf has gone from being overrated to severely underrated. He is not getting any respect here at all. If we didn't have him we would be much worse off right now than we are.
The underrating is a boardwide response to the overrating of Phaneuf by some fans. Some fans think he's this amazing elite #1 defenseman that would be the first pairing of any team and should garner a 1st, a top 6, AND an blue-chip, potentially elite prospect. As a natural reaction, some people underrate him just to answer in spite. Point is, Phaneuf is an elite 2nd pairing, very good #2, or an adequate #1 d-man who shouldn't be playing the bulk of any team's minutes. Don't get me wrong, I love Phaneuf on this team, I even bought his jersey over Kessel. He's just not as elite as some think or even wish he is.
I'm pretty sure it was Wilson's amazing run and gun offence that made every Dman on Toronto look like Lebda-lite. Just wait till they actually have a good system, a defensive one at that, you will see Schenn, Phanuef and maybe even Komisarek play like what they are capable of.
But he made Kessel and Lupul top 6 scorers in the NHL. If you expect your stay at home defenseman to look better don't be surprised if you're speedy forwards and quick puck moving defenseman don't show the same kind of offensive prowess.
I never thought I would say this, but Phaneuf has gone from being overrated to severely underrated. He is not getting any respect here at all. If we didn't have him we would be much worse off right now than we are.
Actually, if the Leafs didn't have Phaneuf, they would be able to spend the cap on an actual defensemen, or a goalie.
Which would actually allow the Leafs to be in playoffs contention.
A comparable is Kevin Bieksa on the Canucks, but Bieksa is more cluth and a little bit better defensively.
Bieksa had his best years beside Mitchell, and now Hamhuis, both of which are defensive first dman.
Actually, if the Leafs didn't have Phaneuf, they would be able to spend the cap on an actual defensemen, or a goalie.
Which would actually allow the Leafs to be in playoffs contention.
A comparable is Kevin Bieksa on the Canucks, but Bieksa is more cluth and a little bit better defensively.
Bieksa had his best years beside Mitchell, and now Hamhuis, both of which are defensive first dman.
KB got a 4.6m deal with a FULL NTC.
I'm pretty sure having Phaneuf doesn't prevent us from getting either. There's a lot more than Phaneuf and his contract getting in the way of the Leafs playoff contention. Carlyle and an actual structured system will be a good start.
Phaneuf lacks good hockey sense, and sometimes makes bad pinches and reads. However he's valuable to the Leafs right now, and his contract is not holding Burke and co. back from doing anything. I'll take Phaneuf on my team 10/10 times he's just not suited to be the anchor of a defence. He's a good number two and an elite number three.
Last edited by TheNorthFace: 03-06-2012 at 04:55 PM.
I'm pretty sure having Phaneuf doesn't prevent us from getting either. There's a lot more than Phaneuf and his contract getting in the way of the Leafs playoff contention. Carlyle and an actual structured system will be a good start.
Phaneuf lacks good hockey sense, and sometimes makes bad pinches and reads. However he's valuable to the Leafs right now, and his contract is not holding Burke and co. back from doing anything. I'll take Phaneuf on my team 10/10 times he's just not suited to be the anchor of a defence. He's a good number two and an elite number three.
As much as I hate the Phaneuf deal as a flames fan, I have to agree. Their biggest problem is the plethora of medium sized forward contracts they have that aren't contributing. most expire in a year, hopefully you can keep your GM away from the free agent market.
I don't see the point of proving to these guys Phaneuf is #1d. All they do is look at his past without looking at his play now.
Last 20 games"
2G 10A -9
thats the Dion calgary traded. 2nd worst Ga for Dmen the 1 1/2 before the trade.
Then he suprisingly become league average Dman against the toughs at the start of his TOR career.
Flames fans I work with use to complain about the trade.
Now they watch Dion pinch for hits and get beat on the edge and in front of the net.
They remeber why they traded him and laugh.
As much as I hate the Phaneuf deal as a flames fan, I have to agree. Their biggest problem is the plethora of medium sized forward contracts they have that aren't contributing. most expire in a year, hopefully you can keep your GM away from the free agent market.
This is the most sensible thing posted in this thread. And from a Flames fan. You other guys need to pick it up.
Aggression, tough, okay skater, hard shot, alot of tools to work with... Unfortunately ( having watched him for years in Calgary and watching his play in Toronto ) million dollar talent, nickel head
Last 20 games"
2G 10A -9
thats the Dion calgary traded. 2nd worst Ga for Dmen the 1 1/2 before the trade.
Then he suprisingly become league average Dman against the toughs at the start of his TOR career.
Flames fans I work with use to complain about the trade.
Now they watch Dion pinch for hits and get beat on the edge and in front of the net.
They remeber why they traded him and laugh.
I guess you haven't seen our goaltender or our first line.
Phanuef is a solid dman. I feel his value would be much higher if his contract wasn't so high. I peg Dion as a $4.5m guy. He's a tad overpaid. Still a solid dman, would make a good Bruin.
I also feel he's mis-cast, he isn't a #1 dman. He's more suited for a #2 guy, maybe #3 guys on an extremely deep defensive team. Imagine a Chara-Phanuef pairing?
Phanuef is a solid dman. I feel his value would be much higher if his contract wasn't so high. I peg Dion as a $4.5m guy. He's a tad overpaid. Still a solid dman, would make a good Bruin.
I also feel he's mis-cast, he isn't a #1 dman. He's more suited for a #2 guy, maybe #3 guys on an extremely deep defensive team. Imagine a Chara-Phanuef pairing?
I've never been a Phaneuf fan and seriously doubt I ever will be.
