It's a stretch to say more than a couple of those Keats finishes are top five. Some if them not even top ten persay.
I think in a consolidated league, Keats would be the type of guy who would most often finish between 6th and 10th, maybe break into the top 5 once or twice, maybe finish below 10th once or twice. Keep in mind that the missed 2 1/3 seasons to World War I as well.
I think Keats' upside is Sid Abel, but since we don't know he's that good, we can't assume he is.
With Keats' solid offense and "glue guy," attributes, I do think he could be drafted in the top 150 if he were a winger. (After the first 3 rounds, centers always drop).
Duncan came up because he was the star and Cook because he was the player/coach. Skinner, as a support player would often be referred to as "Skinner" no Alf, so the search wouldn't catch it. "Skinner Vancouver" might have more success.
You sir, is a very smart man!
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Originally Posted by vecens24
All right, as my first spare (might use him in the lineup, we'll see how things shake out), I'm selecting Corb Denneny, F. Dreakmur's bio from about a year and a half ago is here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=118
I liked his offensive resume since a hundred picks ago, but I couldn't find much information on how he played the game. His best years definitely came as a centre.
I think in a consolidated league, Keats would be the type of guy who would most often finish between 6th and 10th, maybe break into the top 5 once or twice, maybe finish below 10th once or twice. Keep in mind that the missed 2 1/3 seasons to World War I as well.
I think Keats' upside is Sid Abel, but since we don't know he's that good, we can't assume he is.
When I get home, I'll give you Keats' results for my consolidation project.
Looking through Google Archives for info on Prodger, I found this:
Quebec Telegraph, Oct 17, 1919
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It is announced on good authority that Goldie Prodger, one of the outstanding figures in professional hockey in the just before the war period, is likely to lose one of his arms by amputation. Prodger, who since the war has been working in London, Ontario got blood poisoning in one of his figures. To save the arm, this had to be amputated, and now it is reported that the surgeons fear his arm will have to come off to save his life.
How many of those guys below Erixon took a regular shift? I would imagine a large number of them were 4th line goons. Perhaps I should have said "one of the worst forwards offensively in the NHL to take a regular shift?" I mean, for a guy with Erixon's offense to stay in the NHL as long as he did, he either needs to be elite defensively (which he was) or a goon, and the goons don't get as much ice time.
Edit: With 21 teams, 258 forwards comes out to 12.28 forwards per team.
Erixon's 169 divided by 21 teams = 8.04. On an average NHL team, Erixon's per game even strength offense (the metric most favorable to him) would have him 8th of 12 forwards. Would 3 of the 4 forwards below him be 4th line goons? On at least some teams, they would be.
that's unrealistic. There aren't teams with whole lines of goons.
I think in a consolidated league, Keats would be the type of guy who would most often finish between 6th and 10th, maybe break into the top 5 once or twice, maybe finish below 10th once or twice.
Here are Duke Keats' consolidated numbers from my project.
Okay now that the trade is cindmdiemed, Hawkey Town sent me his pick. He picks
Mike Liut, G
Thanks for announcing my pick. Liut will play backup to Tom Barrasso. We think he works well here because he is a strong and durable regular season goalie, but not a great big game/playoff guy. This will allow him to start more regular season games than most goalies to keep Barrasso healthy, while at the same time not being a real threat to steal the #1 job for the playoffs.
All Star record: 1, 2, 3, 4
Hart record: 2, 3, 6
Ted Lindsay Award: 1981
With Keats' solid offense and "glue guy," attributes, I do think he could be drafted in the top 150 if he were a winger. (After the first 3 rounds, centers always drop).
I think there is a legitimate question as to how well Keats' defense translates to the ATD. His total lack of speed is a fairly telling concern. If Keats is down low on the cycle and there is a turnover, my expectation is that he's not going to be in the play as a backchecker. I would be much more enthusiastic about Keats if not for the skating issue.
I'm trying to evaluate your statement about Keats being a top-5 forward for 5 seasons or so. At no point in his career was he ever better than Nighbor or Denneny. Starting in 1920-21, Frederickson's first season in the PCHL, I think he was pretty clearly better than Keats, as well. Before 1920-21, he was not better than Lalonde or Malone.
So I think the highest he could possible be at any point in his career is 4th, which makes him a fringe top-5 guy even in his best seasons, because he also has to compete with guys like Foyston, Morris, MacKay, Dye, Noble, and Adams for top-5 status in any given season.
Cool, thanks. I don't agree with using these numbers as any kind of precise metric like you seemed to be soon earlier this draft, but I think they provide an interesting rough guide.
I guess you didn't include 1920 and 1921 because the Big 4 wasn't a good enough league for a meaningful comparison? Hard to say what to do with those. Keats was clearly top 10 worthy before the War, then came back to that weak league and dominates it like expected (scoring basically went Keats, gap, Keats linemates, everyone else).
Keats had a good season as a rookie in 1916, was on pace to match it in 1917 but left for World War I, missed 1918 and 1919. Then finished first in a questionable league in 1920 and 1921 before his stretch of good seasons in the WCHL.
I think there is a legitimate question as to how well Keats' defense translates to the ATD. His total lack of speed is a fairly telling concern. If Keats is down low on the cycle and there is a turnover, my expectation is that he's not going to be in the play as a backchecker. I would be much more enthusiastic about Keats if not for the skating issue.
I'm trying to evaluate your statement about Keats being a top-5 forward for 5 seasons or so. At no point in his career was he ever better than Nighbor or Denneny. Starting in 1920-21, Frederickson's first season in the PCHL, I think he was pretty clearly better than Keats, as well. Before 1920-21, he was not better than Lalonde or Malone.
So I think the highest he could possible be at any point in his career is 4th, which makes him a fringe top-5 guy even in his best seasons, because he also has to compete with guys like Foyston, Morris, MacKay, Dye, Noble, and Adams for top-5 status in any given season.
I think Keats should be effective at defending the transition game by sitting back and letting the much faster Lindsay and Selanne go hard on offense. It's basically what Sid Abel did for the Production Line. Abel was an aging superstar losing his ability to skate, so Tommy Ivan put two really fast rookies named Lindsay and Howe on either side to extend his career. And it worked.. And then some. I don't think Abel is slow in the ATD, but by the time the Production Line was put together, he was a slug.
I don't think Keats' defense will be useful as a backchecker because of speed. In the offensive zone, his physical play will be very useful but I see Lindsay as the one effective back checker on the line.
(Kariya-Rucchin-Selanne was also a line with a slow power center as the defensive conscience in transition. I like the look of Lindsay-Keats-Selanne because it sort of mimics the set up of the lines that Lindsay and Selanne both had their most success on, though with varying quality of linemates of course (Lindsay gets worse ones; Selanne gets better ones)
Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-10-2012 at 11:04 AM.
Found some awesome stuff archived on Percy LeSueur, here's the bio I created.
I'm usually one to stray away from pre-NHL players, because usually there is not much supporting evidence on their career. But LeSueur has extensive information and I'm very pleased to have selected him.
Found some awesome stuff archived on Percy LeSueur, here's the bio I created.
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For a start, the names of such hockey immortals as Jack Marshall and Dickie Boon are suggested along with two others, Percy Lesueur and XXXXX XXXXXXXX
This quote needs more context. What are they starting?
