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ATD 2012 - Draft Thread VII

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Old
03-04-2012, 05:21 PM
  #101
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Handling the egos and ice time of star players.
Barry Trotz is widely respected for his ability to deal with players - getting them to buy in without clashing. He is an excellent communicator.

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handling adjustments over a 7 game series of facing the same opponent.
Coaches make adjustments during the regular season too. They pre-scout every opponent, and prepare specifically for them. Agreed that it goes to a higher level in the play-offs, but it's not unique to play-off hockey.

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03-04-2012, 05:27 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Trotz does more with less than any other coach in the NHL since the lockout IMO, so judging coaches based on championships is silly. It looks like the GM's are torn on this, but Trotz isn't out of place here for whoever drafted him.
Accusing me of judging coaches strictly on championships is a mischaracteriztion. I think the playoffs are a whole different beast for NHL coaches than the regular season. And Trotz is totally unproven. He doesn't have to win a cup. But helping his team get farther than it otherwise should is definitely worth something

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03-04-2012, 05:47 PM
  #103
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I'd just like to point out that while Trotz may have less offensive talent, he has a top 5 goalie and two top 10 defencemen.

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03-04-2012, 05:51 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
That's all. I believe Jiri Bubla is vastly underrated, and perhaps my biggest steal of the draft. He's obviously a couple of notch under Jan Suchy and Frantisek Pospisil, but I just cannot justify the HUGE difference in placement (142/177 vs. 526). The 300's would be a far better placement for Bubla I believe, but feel free to disagree and present a counter argument.
Counter argument:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Tribune
That Bubla-sentenced to five years in an Austrian prison for trafficking in and smuggling heroin-would ever entertain the notion of going into the drug trade was so inconceivable that even the Vancouver police, who now admit they had some tips about Bubla, never followed them up.
I just don't want a convicted drug dealer anywhere near my locker room. I can honestly say I wouldn't touch him in the AA draft.

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03-04-2012, 05:55 PM
  #105
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I just don't want a convicted drug dealer anywhere near my locker room. I can honestly say I wouldn't touch him in the AA draft.
Fair enough. I don't want to start another Vladimir Krutov debate all over again. It drained far too much of my energy for nothing last draft. How about his game on the ice?

BTW, those infos were already written in my biography.

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03-04-2012, 05:57 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I'd just like to point out that while Trotz may have less offensive talent, he has a top 5 goalie and two top 10 defencemen.
First of all, a couple players doesn't make a team great. Nashville's roster is still in the bottom 3rd of the league in terms of talent. Their top line is Sergei Kostitsyn, David Legwand, and Martin Erat....

Second, he's had those players for a couple years now, which is only a smal part of his coaching career.

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03-04-2012, 05:59 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
First of all, a couple players doesn't make a team great. Nashville's roster is still in the bottom 3rd of the league in terms of talent. Their top line is Sergei Kostitsyn, David Legwand, and Martin Erat....

Second, he's had those players for a couple years now, which is only a smal part of his coaching career.
I think Nashville's depth has been seriously underrated for a while now. They lack top line forwards. That's it. Strong 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines. Stellar goaltending and one of the best defence corps in the league.

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03-04-2012, 06:00 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Fair enough. I don't want to start another Vladimir Krutov debate all over again. It drained far too much of my energy for nothing last draft. How about his game on the ice?

BTW, those infos were already written in my biography.
Krutov is speculation. Bubla is cold hard fact. I just can't even look at him as a player, knowing about him as a man.

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03-04-2012, 06:07 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Krutov is speculation. Bubla is cold hard fact. I just can't even look at him as a player, knowing about him as a man.
Ok I guess. Let's move on.

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03-04-2012, 06:10 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I think Nashville's depth has been seriously underrated for a while now. They lack top line forwards. That's it. Strong 2nd, 3rd and 4th lines. Stellar goaltending and one of the best defence corps in the league.
Seriously? Their next wave of forwards is Mike Fisher, Patrick Hornquist, Nick Spalling, Colin Wilson, and Jordin Tootoo.

After Weber and Suter, their blueline takes a huge dive. Kevin Klein and Franky Bouillion are decent 4/5 guys, and Jon Blum is a rookie with potential, but a lot of work to do.

Nashville's roster, after their big 3, looks more like a glorified AHL team than a 100+ point NHL team.

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03-04-2012, 06:11 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Seriously? Their next wave of forwards is Mike Fisher, Patrick Hornquist, Nick Spalling, Colin Wilson, and Jordin Tootoo.

After Weber and Suter, their blueline takes a huge dive. Kevin Klein and Franky Bouillion are decent 4/5 guys, and Jon Blum is a rookie with potential, but a lot of work to do.

Nashville's roster, after their big 3, looks more like a glorified AHL team than a 100+ point NHL team.
What happened to Roman Josi? I thought he was a great defenceman in Nashville.

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03-04-2012, 06:16 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
What happened to Roman Josi? I thought he was a great defenceman in Nashville.
He's another bottom pairing rookie with a lot to learn. He'll be good in a few years, but he isn't now.

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03-04-2012, 06:20 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Krutov is speculation. Bubla is cold hard fact. I just can't even look at him as a player, knowing about him as a man.
Krutov's problems are more relevant to the ice surface, though, right?


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Old
03-04-2012, 06:30 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Krutov's problems are more relevant to the ice surface, though.
And if we discredit every players who use/sell drugs or done anything illegal in their life ... the list would be quite long. I prefer writing and reading on the great accomplishment of great hockey players through history than nitpicking on the errors they've commited in their life. I don't know why Jiri Bubla ended up smuggling drugs in the mid-1980's, and although it would be quite an interesting read, it's not my main focus in the ATD. We could discredit Theoren Fleury for stuffing his nose with every drug he could find, we could discredit Sprague Cleghorn for conducting himself on the ice in a way that would get him jailed numerous years in today's society etc ... I prefer staying clear of this path, as we have little clue as to why someone end up the way they were. And to be honest, I can confidently say I'm not someone in a position to judge.

I'm an amateur hockey historian, not a psychologist.

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03-04-2012, 06:32 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
He's another bottom pairing rookie with a lot to learn. He'll be good in a few years, but he isn't now.
Allright, you see just how much today's hockey!

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03-04-2012, 06:47 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Seriously? Their next wave of forwards is Mike Fisher, Patrick Hornquist, Nick Spalling, Colin Wilson, and Jordin Tootoo.

After Weber and Suter, their blueline takes a huge dive. Kevin Klein and Franky Bouillion are decent 4/5 guys, and Jon Blum is a rookie with potential, but a lot of work to do.

Nashville's roster, after their big 3, looks more like a glorified AHL team than a 100+ point NHL team.
And those are some solid players. Not saying they are world beaters, but they aren't the crap you are trying to make them out to be. They play hard, they play smart. They may not be overwhelmingly skilled but that isn't what makes results.

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03-04-2012, 06:49 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
Allright, you see just how much today's hockey!
Generally, I watch 1 or 2 NHL games most nights, so I'd say probably 10 games per week. I go out of my way to watch Toronto, Los Angeles, and San Jose.

Since this is about Nashville, I would say, over the last few years, I watch then 10-12 times per season + playoffs.

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03-04-2012, 06:58 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
And those are some solid players. Not saying they are world beaters, but they aren't the crap you are trying to make them out to be. They play hard, they play smart. They may not be overwhelmingly skilled but that isn't what makes results.
They are decent 2nd and 3rd liners. They aren't terrible, but they are certainly no better than average, probably below average.

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03-04-2012, 07:10 PM
  #119
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sorry for the skipped pick (from here on in, skip me after 1 hour)

the kenora thistles are pleased to select:

jonathan toews (c)

Quote:
Originally Posted by the hockey news
ASSETS: Has tremendous hockey sense, vision and athletic ability. Skates extremely well and is very responsible in his own end. Intense, he can plow through heavy traffic areas thanks to his puckhandling skills and strength. Throw in leadership skills and you have the total package.
FLAWS: Has a tendency to run a little hot and cold in the goal-scoring department. His competitive, physical style will always be a concern for potential injury.
CAREER POTENTIAL: Elite two-way captain.

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03-04-2012, 07:46 PM
  #120
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^

http://darthno.ytmnd.com/

There goes our captain.

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Old
03-04-2012, 07:51 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
And if we discredit every players who use/sell drugs or done anything illegal in their life ... the list would be quite long. I prefer writing and reading on the great accomplishment of great hockey players through history than nitpicking on the errors they've commited in their life. I don't know why Jiri Bubla ended up smuggling drugs in the mid-1980's, and although it would be quite an interesting read, it's not my main focus in the ATD. We could discredit Theoren Fleury for stuffing his nose with every drug he could find, we could discredit Sprague Cleghorn for conducting himself on the ice in a way that would get him jailed numerous years in today's society etc ... I prefer staying clear of this path, as we have little clue as to why someone end up the way they were. And to be honest, I can confidently say I'm not someone in a position to judge.

I'm an amateur hockey historian, not a psychologist.
Taking steroids gives you a large competitive advantage on the ice. It is cheating, plain and simple. The evidence against Krutov is pretty strong, and we saw what a sorry lump of **** he was in Vancouver without the juice.

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03-04-2012, 07:58 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Taking steroids gives you a large competitive advantage on the ice. It is cheating, plain and simple. The evidence against Krutov is pretty strong, and we saw what a sorry lump of **** he was in Vancouver without the juice.
I'm not starting that debate again this year! Everyone has their opinion on the subject, and both side have extensively given their opinion.

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03-04-2012, 08:09 PM
  #123
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[QUI know this guy is far from the BPA, but I need a guy like him, LW/D Reg Fleming



1x NHL All Star Game Participant
1x Stanley Cup Champion
10x Top 10 PIM(1, 2, 2, 5, 7, 7, 8, 9, 10)
2x Top 11 AS Voting LW(10, 11)*

*10th with 3 voting points
*11th with 1 voting point
Quote:
Reg Fleming was a hard-nosed player for six teams between 1959-60 and 1970-71. He was able to play defence and left-wing while providing grit and a bit of offense in his 749-game career. Although he wasn't the biggest player on the ice, his guile and combative will bettered many an adversary.

Fleming played 66 games as a rookie in 1960-61 and his physical presence played a role in the Hawks' Stanley Cup triumph that spring.
http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...p?player=12603

Quote:
While we don't know if he had a hard nose per se, we can answer the reporter's question for him - yes, Reggie Fleming was a very hard-nosed player.

He was a highly effective utility forward though he originally was a defenseman. Born in Montreal, Fleming spent most of his junior and minor league career playing defense. However due to his small size (5'8" 170lbs) he was converted to a left wing for much of his NHL career. With his decent speed and physical, hustling style he was an extraordinary penalty killer. Another reason for his great penalty killing was he was a superb defensive forward, as many players are once they are converted from the blueline to the forward position. Fleming already had a great understanding of defensive positioning by the time he moved up.

He was also a pesky player. He loved to get under the skin of the opponents, disrupting them from their game, thus giving his team a much better chance of victory. The opposition hated him, but Chicago fans loved him.

In his first year in Chicago teammates nicknamed him "Mr. Clean" because of his bullnecked, crew cut appearance that resembled the mascot for the famous cleaning product. But in actuality Fleming was one of the NHL's dirtier players. He would lead the league in penalty minutes in 1965-66 and had a career total of 1468 PIM in 749 games. In one game in his rookie season, Fleming set an NHL record (since bettered) for most penalty minutes in one game against the New York Rangers. A bru-ha-ha escalated after Ranger goalie Jack McCartan whacked Reg with his goal stick. Every player on the ice got involved but it was Fleming who earned 37 minutes in penalties based upon a two-minute minor penalty, two more five-minute penalties and a ten-minute misconduct penalty, plus a game-misconduct penalty!

Fleming played 4 solid seasons with the Blackhawks "Gashouse Gang." That was the nickname given to the Hawks because of their rough, physical style of play. But in 1964 the Hawks traded Reg with Ab McDonald to Boston in exchange for Dougie Mohns. He responded with his best NHL season in Boston, scoring 18 goals and adding 23 assists. In his previous 4 years in the league, Fleming only scored a combined total of 21 goals and 26 assists, so this was definitely a breakthrough year for the winger. The Bruins at the time were the cellar-dwellars of the league and Reg had a chance to play a more significant role while with the B's.

In the middle of the 65-66 season Reggie was traded to the New York Rangers for John McKenzie. The deal was one of a few significant moves by the Bruins which helped to build up the B's to the Stanley Cup championship calibre teams of 1970 and 1972.

Fleming would enjoy 3 1/2 seasons of solid play on Broadway. In 1969 he was traded to the expansion Philadelphia Flyers. The Flyers of course would go on to become hockey's "Broad Street Bullies" just a couple of years after Fleming's departure. Needless to say the Flyers acquired Fleming for his veteran leadership and to lay the seeds of what was to come in Philadelphia.

Fleming's stay in Philly was short as the following season he was selected in the Expansion Draft by the Buffalo Sabres. He played admirably for the Sabres but 1970-71 proved to be Fleming's swan song in the NHL.

Fleming continued to play minor league hockey for parts of 6 years after his NHL days were over. Two of these seasons were spent in Chicago with the WHA's Cougars.

Fleming will forever be remembered as one of hockey's most ferocious competitors.

Reggie Fleming was a tough-as-nails players back in the 1960s. He suffered a stroke a few years ago and his health has been failing ever since.
http://blackhawkslegends.blogspot.co...e-fleming.html

Quote:
There was no tougher son of a gun in hockey than Reggie Fleming. He was no goon, just a hard working labourer who brought his lunch pail and work boots to the rink every day.
http://www.greatesthockeylegends.com...e-fleming.html

Quote:
He was known as an aggressive and combative player who could play both forward and defence, as well as kill penalties.

Fleming's aggressive style of play added an important physical presence to the Blackhawks and helped the team win the Stanley Cup for the 1960–61 season

A popular player with Chicago, he was known for his grit and team spirit. His involvement in a number of notorious incidents gave him a reputation around the league as a tough customer and an intense competitor.

His experience and combativeness helped the small and unaggressive Flyers team
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Fleming

Quote:
If you are a fan of a certain age, you know well who Reggie Fleming was. You either booed or cheered him, but you always noticed him, his thick body and his brush cut hairstyle.

In an era when guys who were frequent fighters could actually play hockey, Reggie was an effective and enthusiastic pugilist, a very reliable defensive player who — especially during his years with the Rangers — showed he could score a bit as well.

What Reg Fleming did best was fight and agitate. Today, the role of fighting is hotly debated. In Reg Fleming’s day, before the mid-’70s Flyers elevated it to a strategic weapon, that role was never questioned. It was merely integral to the game, an internal mechanism of policing a sport that could veer off into violence.

Fleming was a good, versatile N.H.L.’er who could play defense or wing. On the rugged Blackhawks team that won the Stanley Cup in 1961 — the most physical team in the six-team N.H.L. of the early ’60s — he was the main cop on the beat.

But when the Hawks played the Red Wings, Fleming was assigned to left wing to check Gordie Howe. When they played the Maple Leafs, he shadowed Frank Mahovlich. Against the Rangers, he skated against Andy Bathgate. After he was traded by the Hawks, he lined up against his old teammate Bobby Hull. His coaches knew he could play the game. He was also a good penalty killer.
http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/20...eggie-fleming/

Quote:
Regarded as a tough-as-nails defenseman who accrued 1,468 penalty minutes in 749 career games for the Hawks and four other teams, Fleming was particularly valuable as a penalty killer.

"When he was on the ice, he was an unbelievable competitor, a very physical presence. Off the ice, he was a great guy and he would do anything for anybody."
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...y-cup-mr-clean

Quote:
It did not take Reggie long to realize that if he hit people hard enough and often enough they did not move away so quickly. In that first game he accumulated 37 minutes in penalties, and his fate as a hockey player was sealed.

"I fought the biggest and the smallest for 10 years, and I never backed down from a fight," he says, his voice rising. "When I was with the Rangers, I had it all. I could bring them right up, emotionally, by the things I did on the ice. Then, when they traded me away, the writers said I wasn't really that tough after all. I was a cheap-shot artist. But they didn't say that when I was here, only when I was traded away."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...47/5/index.htm

Quote:
Few players embodied the taciturn, two-fisted loner image better than this NHL veteran who learned to take care of himself.
-The Globe and Mail, December 17, 2009

Quote:
Fleming was also versatile enough to be used as a defenseman and as a forward, shutting down star players on the other teams.
-New York Times, July 17, 2009

Quote:
“Reggie was a hard-working guy, a great teammate, he was a little shy on talent, but he worked through that, and off the ice he was a true gentleman,”
-Bill Hay

Quote:
Emile Francis got tired of seeing Reggie Fleming belting his players all over the ice...

"He's got a lot of brawn and makes good use of it." On a team that historically had been pushed around by bigger, tougher opponents, Fleming's willingness to hit anyone and take on all comers quickly made him a crowd favorite at the Garden. But while Fleming was more than willing to take on any and all challengers, he provided the Rangers with an enforcer who, as it turned out, could score a bit too.
http://books.google.com/books?id=sSl...leming&f=false

Quote:
As for Reggie, he was an agitator and was a physical player with drive and a fine teammate.

Francis was quoted in The Hockey News as saying, "We need all the size we can get up front. Now that we have Fleming and Vic Hadfield, we got the playeres to keep other teams honest. It took a long time to get Reg. He's the type of player who won't get knocked on his back very often.

The Hockey News reported that Fleming was "the most energetic skater on the Bruins and certainly the heaviest hitter." Schmidt was quoted as saying, "We traded Fleming's muscle for McKenzie's hustle."

He was a tough character. He wasn't all that big but he was very stocky...He wasn't the best skater, kind of cumbersome player but you always had to make sure that you had your head up when he was on the ice because he was just that kind of player that would play the man.

"I played with Reggie Fleming and Ron Stewart on the checking line and killing penalties and regular shift.

Stewie and I and Reggie Fleming were killing penalties, I think, the three of us off and on and so forth.
http://books.google.com/books?id=82e...leming&f=false

Quote:
New York's Reg Fleming is often picked to guard Chicago's mighty Bobby Hull because his similar body helps him to sense and counter Hull's lightning moves.
http://books.google.com/books?id=jdQ...leming&f=false

Quote:
Reggie Fleming of the Black Hawks would never hesitate to stir the pot.
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks...w=1366&bih=611

Quote:
This player, Reggie Fleming, had made a reputation for himself in the National Hockey League as an aggressive and belligerent player who engaged in many fights on the ice.
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks...w=1366&bih=611


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03-04-2012, 08:12 PM
  #124
vecens24
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
I know this guy is far from the BPA, but I need a guy like him, LW/D Reg Fleming

I liked him a lot when I had him last year. Here's my bio of him:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=942

I'm sure you're going to end up outdoing this one, but it's at least a good start for you!

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03-04-2012, 08:15 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I liked him a lot when I had him last year. Here's my bio of him:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=942

I'm sure you're going to end up outdoing this one, but it's at least a good start for you!
I'll definitely be sure to include it in the finished product, thanks!

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