HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

Brian Boyle

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-30-2004, 01:29 PM
  #51
Jungle Boy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Recife, Brazil
Country: Brazil
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Tamber - Boyle - Tukonen/ Pushy
Kings second line in the future
JK but give the guy sometime to develop. Aulin was great on juniors and once he turned pro he couldnīt live up to the hype. Boyle is slowly getting better and everybody knows that NCAA isnīt good for the BIG PF style (Dude, even Steckel is looking better once he turned pro).

Jungle Boy is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 01:38 PM
  #52
Matt13
Registered User
 
Matt13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: I'm on a boat MF!
Country: United States
Posts: 4,112
vCash: 500
Look how many years it took Bertuzzi to score an 80 plus point season.

Matt13 is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 02:08 PM
  #53
zeppelin97
Registered User
 
zeppelin97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Country: Japan
Posts: 745
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbie Verstinks
Look how many years it took Bertuzzi to score an 80 plus point season.
Yeah but Bertuzzi put up some excellent numbers in Juniors to earn an NHL contract. 7 pts in 14 games for Boyle is ok but thats kinda pathetic for a 1st rounder. He's improved over last year so thats a good sign. If he doesn't continue to improve like he has this year, its bye bye Brian Boyle and hello 2nd round compensation.

The clock is ticking on Boyle, and he doesn't have forever to develop (correct me if im wrong). I agree, lets wait on Boyle, i mean he has improved this year so focus on the positives...but i can see how others are getting uptight about him.

zeppelin97 is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 02:17 PM
  #54
Reaper45
Registered User
 
Reaper45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Bay
Country: United States
Posts: 30,736
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Reaper45
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeppelin97
Yeah but Bertuzzi put up some excellent numbers in Juniors to earn an NHL contract. 7 pts in 14 games for Boyle is ok but thats kinda pathetic for a 1st rounder. He's improved over last year so thats a good sign. If he doesn't continue to improve like he has this year, its bye bye Brian Boyle and hello 2nd round compensation.

The clock is ticking on Boyle, and he doesn't have forever to develop (correct me if im wrong). I agree, lets wait on Boyle, i mean he has improved this year so focus on the positives...but i can see how others are getting uptight about him.
Playing in College means that you arent going to put up those gaudy Juniors numbers.

Reaper45 is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 02:18 PM
  #55
palffytofrovlov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungle Boy
Tamber - Boyle - Tukonen/ Pushy
Kings second line in the future

I see it this way....

Frolov - Need a 1st Line Center- Brown
Tambs - Boyle - Tukonen
Cams- Lehoux- Pushy
Karlsson - Avery- Kanko

Now that is the Future of the Kings....

palffytofrovlov is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 02:36 PM
  #56
nikolai19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Corona, CA
Country: Belarus
Posts: 2,310
vCash: 500
P2F,
I like those lines, but the chances of these guys not being traded to better the team is very unlikely. Someone at some point will go hopefully to fill that first line void.

I would deal Karlsson first and foremost and let Flinn develop on that 4th line. Or better yet, Kostopolous could fill the middleweight void left by Lappy.

nikolai19 is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 02:46 PM
  #57
Matt13
Registered User
 
Matt13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: I'm on a boat MF!
Country: United States
Posts: 4,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikolai19
P2F,
I like those lines, but the chances of these guys not being traded to better the team is very unlikely. Someone at some point will go hopefully to fill that first line void.

I would deal Karlsson first and foremost and let Flinn develop on that 4th line. Or better yet, Kostopolous could fill the middleweight void left by Lappy.

Cowan already filled lappy's role. Kostopolous is going to fill Belanger's role soon enough.

Matt13 is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 02:51 PM
  #58
Reaper45
Registered User
 
Reaper45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Bay
Country: United States
Posts: 30,736
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Reaper45
Quote:
Originally Posted by palffytofrovlov
I see it this way....

Frolov - Need a 1st Line Center- Brown
Tambs - Boyle - Tukonen
Cams- Lehoux- Pushy
Karlsson - Avery- Kanko

Now that is the Future of the Kings....
The problem with this is that not all of these guys are going to be NHL ready at the same time. Theya re going to come in spurts, and it's almost certain that at least two of them imo will be traded.

Reaper45 is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 04:17 PM
  #59
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
 
KingPurpleDinosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: irvine, ca
Posts: 2,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KING ELVI
You're right KPD, he stinks. He's a sophmore playing on a team with a returning crop of junior and seniors on a top 4 team in the nation. He is getting more and more ice time each week and has equaled his point production with 2/5 of the season to go. You're right in that you can't see his future blooming now, because this is the present. What did you hear about this kid that suggested that he would dominate college hockey starting this year and become Lindros/Thorton/Primeau by the time he was a junior in college? All we have been told is that he is a huge kid that that is athletic and will take time to hone his skills with his frame and may become a force to be dealt with. Those picked right behind him have done squat in the pros and may never do squat. So pick up your gameboy and wait 3-4 more years and then cry about how this or that player is so much better and we could of had them instead. Wait...how hard is it to wait. Some of you are just boobs
so u are saying u can't think of 10 players that were drafted after boyle that u wouldnt want over him right now? i can think of 5 off the top of my head, it won't take me long to go over 10 and even 15 by looking at the draft list. boyle isn't a bust yet, im not saying that, but he's definately not developing as well as we're hoping.

u can hold the "long term prospect" excuse until you turn blue, but one day you have to start wondering when he's going to start showing some return on the gamble.

KingPurpleDinosaur is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 04:20 PM
  #60
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
 
KingPurpleDinosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: irvine, ca
Posts: 2,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsjohn
Something to chew on

Bigger players take longer to develop while smaller players peak early and start to decline in their late 20's
to understand better, when do you expect boyle to break out? and what is the average peak of a bigger player as opposed to a smaller player?

KingPurpleDinosaur is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 06:01 PM
  #61
maximil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
to understand better, when do you expect boyle to break out? and what is the average peak of a bigger player as opposed to a smaller player?
I think he's trying to make a generalization about when players most often reach their maximum ability. I think that for the most part he's right... players drafted based on potential size do take longer to develop.

Think of players like Hal Gill, Zdeno Chara, Chris Pronger, and Todd Bertuzzi. I can remeber both Gill and Chara being hated upon by people because they were clumsy, look at them now.

I'm not trying to defend Boyle, but I do think you need to think about what he has right now and what he could be if he improved every facet of his game over the next four years.

I think if anything, it shows confidence in the people who are responsible for training young hockey players.

maximil is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 06:55 PM
  #62
Belanger25
ZUES!
 
Belanger25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Upland
Country: Italy
Posts: 3,727
vCash: 500
With 3 first round picks the Kings were allowed to take a Project pick. If he can start playing a Little More with the puck he will improve. I got to watch him in BC's last two games. And he's starting to get more time. The more time he gets he will improve. Right now though he's kinda being turned into a PP Specialist.

Belanger25 is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 06:58 PM
  #63
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 34,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belanger25
With 3 first round picks the Kings were allowed to take a Project pick. If he can start playing a Little More with the puck he will improve. I got to watch him in BC's last two games. And he's starting to get more time. The more time he gets he will improve. Right now though he's kinda being turned into a PP Specialist.
He looked pretty good this touney too, didn't he? Not NHL ready, but he has improved from last year for sure.

Last year, and early on this season he looked to pass the puck almost every time he got it. By this tourney he was stickhandling his way into the offensive zone, and dekeing defenders. As time has passed his confidence has gone up, and as a result so has his play.

He could stand to be more physical, and a little meaner, but that will come in time IMO.

__________________
I love you all.
Legionnaire is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 07:47 PM
  #64
nikolai19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Corona, CA
Country: Belarus
Posts: 2,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbie Verstinks
Cowan already filled lappy's role. Kostopolous is going to fill Belanger's role soon enough.
Good enough for me. Good call.

nikolai19 is offline  
Old
12-30-2004, 10:06 PM
  #65
Fat Elvis
Registered User
 
Fat Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Money Pit
Country: United States
Posts: 5,285
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
so u are saying u can't think of 10 players that were drafted after boyle that u wouldnt want over him right now? i can think of 5 off the top of my head, it won't take me long to go over 10 and even 15 by looking at the draft list. boyle isn't a bust yet, im not saying that, but he's definately not developing as well as we're hoping.

u can hold the "long term prospect" excuse until you turn blue, but one day you have to start wondering when he's going to start showing some return on the gamble.
Once again you have not understood my broken record. IT IS NOT ABOUT RIGHT NOW. Who gives a gigantic crap what other kids are doing right now and how good they look right now. It is about how they turn out in the long run. Brown is going to be a bust if in 3-5 years he hasn't improved even though he made it to the NHL in his first season. I'm not saying Brown is good or bad, I'm saying let us see what his future holds. An example. So, if in 4-5 years Boyle is sucking in the ECHL, we can then consider him a bust. The fact that player A and player B were drafted behind Boyle and are excelling in what ever minor league they are playing at, does not mean diddly until they make it. So ramble off your 10-15 that you speak so highly of and their great play. Boyle *may* turn out better than everyone you mention and he *may* not. Hence the project.

Fat Elvis is offline  
Old
12-31-2004, 01:45 AM
  #66
Belanger25
ZUES!
 
Belanger25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Upland
Country: Italy
Posts: 3,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
He could stand to be more physical, and a little meaner, but that will come in time IMO.
He does need to be a little bit more physical but I think he wants to. He just hasn't learned how to do it without getting a penalty. Overall I think he'll only improve. I told someone at the Draft Party that draft that if the Kings did not get Hugh Jessiman with their first pick they'd reach and Take Boyle with one of their other first rounders. I'm happy they did. I think they did it because they figured their Steckel expirement failed.

Belanger25 is offline  
Old
12-31-2004, 02:20 AM
  #67
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 34,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belanger25
He does need to be a little bit more physical but I think he wants to. He just hasn't learned how to do it without getting a penalty. Overall I think he'll only improve. I told someone at the Draft Party that draft that if the Kings did not get Hugh Jessiman with their first pick they'd reach and Take Boyle with one of their other first rounders. I'm happy they did. I think they did it because they figured their Steckel expirement failed.

Good point. I was thinking the same thing. He was taking a ton of penalites due to his size. His elbows are head high on most college players.

Draft party? The official Kings draft party or the Hockeys Future one?

Legionnaire is offline  
Old
12-31-2004, 02:40 AM
  #68
Belanger25
ZUES!
 
Belanger25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Upland
Country: Italy
Posts: 3,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Good point. I was thinking the same thing. He was taking a ton of penalites due to his size. His elbows are head high on most college players.

Draft party? The official Kings draft party or the Hockeys Future one?
Official Kings Draft Party.


I think his Jr. and Sr. Years at BC are going to be very productive.

Belanger25 is offline  
Old
12-31-2004, 03:33 AM
  #69
Legionnaire
Kill! Jeff, Kill!!!
 
Legionnaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: LA-LA Land
Country: United States
Posts: 34,989
vCash: 500
I agree. While I don't think he necessarily going to be in the running for the Hobey Baker, I don't think he will improve upon his first two years greatly.

Legionnaire is offline  
Old
01-03-2005, 08:27 PM
  #70
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
 
KingPurpleDinosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: irvine, ca
Posts: 2,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KING ELVI
Once again you have not understood my broken record. IT IS NOT ABOUT RIGHT NOW. Who gives a gigantic crap what other kids are doing right now and how good they look right now. It is about how they turn out in the long run. Brown is going to be a bust if in 3-5 years he hasn't improved even though he made it to the NHL in his first season. I'm not saying Brown is good or bad, I'm saying let us see what his future holds. An example. So, if in 4-5 years Boyle is sucking in the ECHL, we can then consider him a bust. The fact that player A and player B were drafted behind Boyle and are excelling in what ever minor league they are playing at, does not mean diddly until they make it. So ramble off your 10-15 that you speak so highly of and their great play. Boyle *may* turn out better than everyone you mention and he *may* not. Hence the project.
hahahaha, u know, if boyle was doing really well right now, i am positive you would be hte first to say how great he is. i really doubt i'd hear you yelling out at people saying "PEOPLE, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE NOW! IT DOESN'T MATTER IF HE'S DOMINATING NOW! HE'S A LONG TERM PROSPECT!!"

u say it's not about now, but tell me how else do you project a prospect? long term prospects STILL have the "now" to worry about, i don't know where you get this whole "it's not about the now" just cuase he's long term. and once again, i never called him a bust. u are so quick to label anyone who has doubts about a prospect a person who is labelling him a bust you don't even hear the arguments.

now let's suppose he hits his potential, a soft big second liner, i STILL wouldn't draft him at that position that we drafted him because he will take so long to develop and has not so far shown that he can exceed any of our earlier projections. EVERYONE who saw us draft boyle knew it was a risk because he's a high school player, he had never faced NCAA players and now that he has, even the kings management must be a bit disappointed. ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD LISTEN, just cuase he's a long term prospect doesn't mean he cna't be disappointing his first few years or that he is exempt from all critical analysis JUST CUASE HE'S A LONG FREAKING TERM PROSPECT. i swear, some of u people are so blinded by purple and black, it's just embarrasing.

yes, the kings can choose the wrong player and i believe they just did. we could have gotten much mroe value for our pick then boyle. and unless htis guy toughens up, i don't see the use in drafting a big player. there are enough stumpels in the nhl to go around.

KingPurpleDinosaur is offline  
Old
01-03-2005, 08:44 PM
  #71
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 30,924
vCash: 500
Anyone remember Olli Jokinen and his first couple of seasons with the Kings? Remember him tearing it up in the preseason (and planting Richard Park's face into the ice)?
Then the season started, 8 games he did nothing (and was demoted to the checking line), and then was finally sent back to Finland and performed well.

He came back the next season and made the team out of training camp once again, and this time stuck around for a good majority of the season and spent a little bit of time in the minors (and did good there too). He put up 21 points and was constantly shifted around in the lineup before injuries hit the club with Ferraro and Perreault going down, and Jokinen being promoted on a line with Luc and Audette.

He was a 3rd overall pick behind Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau, but performed like a 3rd line, two-way checking center. After being traded, he spent the next 3 seasons struggling to crack the top 2 lines, and was primarily used in a checking role. He would have a 21 point season with the Isles, gets traded to FLA in the off-season, and scores 16 points in his first season in FLA, and then a career high 29 points in his second season.

In his fifth NHL season (sixth if you count his 8 game appearance since he started in the NHL with the Kings), his point production jumped 34 points up, going from 29 points to 65 points. The season after his career best performance, he hit 58 points.

Olli Jokinen is a perfect example of what a long-term project is. See how patience paid off for Florida? Another great example to look at is Viktor Kozlov. I don't have to type up what he went through just as I did with Jokinen, just take a look at this link: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php3?pid=2808

I'm not touting Boyle as being the next Olli Jokinen or Viktor Kozlov, but seeing what those two LONG-TERM PROJECTS went through, I think it would be wise for the Kings (and for you doubters) to be a little patience.

And I would recommend you to download a classic Guns N' Roses song titled "Patience."

little patience, mm yeah, mm yeah
need a little patience, yeah
just a little patience, yeah
some more patience, yeah
need some patience, yeah
could use some patience, yeah
gotta have some patience, yeah
all it takes is patience,
just a little patience

Keep that in mind.

Ziggy Stardust is online now  
Old
01-03-2005, 09:32 PM
  #72
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
 
KingPurpleDinosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: irvine, ca
Posts: 2,879
vCash: 500
then how about this, what's the benefit of getting a long term project? now prior to jokinen's break out year, he would have been called the biggest bust of that draft year. im not so sure that all those years of dormancy is worth what he is now. sure h'es a good player that id love to have on the kings, but lets not kid ourselves, he's not THAT great.

there are some real good names on that list drafted after jokinen. i don't see what's the benefit of long term projects.

KingPurpleDinosaur is offline  
Old
01-03-2005, 09:55 PM
  #73
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 30,924
vCash: 500
In my eyes, there aren't many prospects who aren't projects. It is VERY rare to find a sure fire skater from any draft that will immediately make an impact to the team that drafted him.

Of course there are the exceptions that come through every other year. The Kings benefited by having three first round selections in that draft and decided to take a project with their third and final pick. It was obvious that on draft day the guy they wanted was Anthony Stewart. After he was taken, the Kings wanted to select the next big bodied player that was available and that was Brian Boyle.

I think the reason we saw the Kings pass on a skater like Corey Perry is the fact that they had selected Dustin Brown and Jeff Tambellini with their earlier picks, and both are average sized forwards with a scoring touch, similar to Perry.

Hell, look at what happened to the Blues' first round pick. He has already been dealt, and they acquired a very average goalie prospect in exchange for him. The Habs second round pick in that very draft is currently playing in the ECHL and is not doing that well for the Ice Dogs. Patrice Bergeron and Dan Fritsche were selected after him.

I don't know if Boyle will be another long-term project who will take 5-6 seasons to develop (like Jokinen) or turn out to be like Zultek or Steckel and become lazy and wait for the cash to come in. Neither can you or any other person. Which is why I am telling you to be patient to see how he can progress over time, then you can label him whatever you want to label him. For now all you can label him is a project. Boyle has already matched his season totals from last season in 20 less games played. I'd say that is showing progress.

Ziggy Stardust is online now  
Old
01-03-2005, 10:07 PM
  #74
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
 
KingPurpleDinosaur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: irvine, ca
Posts: 2,879
vCash: 500
im still curious, though, of why u think it was ok to bet on a long term prospect. the more i think about it, the less reasons i can think of to take a prospect that u know will take years to develop. is boyle's ceiling really that high? not really, he's mroe or less projected to be around what tambellini is projected to be, only difference is having 3-4 more years of development before reaching it.

this, i think, is the same reason why goalies are rarely taken in the first round. they just take too long to develop and are not worth drafting in the first round unless they have an extremely high ceiling.

KingPurpleDinosaur is offline  
Old
01-03-2005, 10:44 PM
  #75
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 30,924
vCash: 500
Well I wasn't the one making the selection for the Kings, so you would be better off asking Al Murray or someone on the scouting staff.
I'm just trying to come up with a rational reasoning as to why the Kings made the pick. They had 3 first round picks, took two offensive wingers with average size and took a project who they are hoping could be a big impact center with above average size.

I've brought this up before, but teams with many first round picks in the past have taken one risky project. The Avalanche did so with Scott Parker in the first round. The Capitals did it last season with the two defensemen they selected late in the first round.

I've given you legit responses and explanations and examples... what more do you want me to say? "Brian Boyle SUCKS! He's a bust. What the hell were the Kings scouts thinking selecting him?! We could have had Patrice Bergeron!" ?

The Kings' draft philosophy has been to take the best player available. I guess Boyle was next up in their rankings and he was the best player available in the eyes of the Kings scouts.

Why not lineup another interview with Al Murray or a Kings scout who covers the D1 college east region (that would be Mike Donnelly I believe?). Maybe they have a better explanation than I do.

I don't have all the answers and neither do you since you are the one asking the questions. If we had all the answers we'd all be hired full-time scouts.

Ziggy Stardust is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:15 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. Đ2014 All Rights Reserved.