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Old
03-21-2005, 08:42 PM
  #176
Ziggy Stardust
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Just reposting all the links of Brian Boyle's goals that Hockeyeastonline.com has up on their site...

http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/video/0405/0318boy.mov
http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/video/0405/0319bo1.mov
http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/video/0405/0319bo2.mov
http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/video/0405/0304bo1.mov
http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/video/0405/0304bo2.mov
http://www.hockeyeastonline.com/video/0405/0114boy.mov

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Old
03-21-2005, 08:46 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Daleks
Am I the only one who thinks that:



1) Taking Boyle wasn't the wasted opportunity.

and

2) The Kings should have taken O'Sullivan over Tambellini. I.e., Tambs was the mis-used pick.



Am I alone in this?
How/Why was Tambs a mis-used pick?

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03-21-2005, 08:49 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Daleks
Am I the only one who thinks that:



1) Taking Boyle wasn't the wasted opportunity.

and

2) The Kings should have taken O'Sullivan over Tambellini. I.e., Tambs was the mis-used pick.



Am I alone in this?
It depends on what you want to take a risk on. If you want to take a risk on a smaller forward who has a good attitude...you take Tambellini. If you want to take a risk on a slightly bigger forward who has a questionable attitude...you take O'Sullivan.

But I think the fact that most teams passed on him TWICE says something about whether you're alone in your thinking.

Remember why Jason Allison fell so far his draft year? Because he had a questionable attitude...and as great a player as he turned out to be, I wouldn't want him within 100 miles of the Kings.

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03-21-2005, 08:53 PM
  #179
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That's awesome Ziggy, thanks!

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03-21-2005, 09:32 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
Because he had a questionable attitude...and as great a player as he turned out to be, I wouldn't want him within 100 miles of the Kings.
weelllllll....lets not go that far...

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03-21-2005, 11:27 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
Remember why Jason Allison fell so far his draft year? Because he had a questionable attitude...and as great a player as he turned out to be, I wouldn't want him within 100 miles of the Kings.
i'd put in $8 mil for jason allison, even if it meant ziggy couldn't be signed becuase of it. how many true #1 centers are there in the league? and also did you ever question his heart when he was on the ice? when he played, he played hard.

but i dont buy the sullivan attitude issues. ur link still seemed to go more towards the personal issues, which is diff IMO, then his attitud eproblems. i don't buy that its goin to affect his career.

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03-22-2005, 12:24 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
i'd put in $8 mil for jason allison, even if it meant ziggy couldn't be signed becuase of it. how many true #1 centers are there in the league? and also did you ever question his heart when he was on the ice? when he played, he played hard.
I questioned his TEAM attitude and whether he would give 100% for the coach and the TEAM. He always gave 100% of himself...but I was never sure whether it was for him or for the team. I think we found out when he decided to sit out the extra year. Jason Allison has been a punk since he played juniors and he remains a punk today.

Quote:
but i dont buy the sullivan attitude issues. ur link still seemed to go more towards the personal issues, which is diff IMO, then his attitud eproblems. i don't buy that its goin to affect his career.
That's your right but you just ask Theo Fleury and Eric Lindros if personal issues affect careers.

What I don't understand, though, is how you can be so sure the personal issues won't affect his career. But if you can, I would really like to borrow your crystal ball.

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03-22-2005, 12:26 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by jfont
weelllllll....lets not go that far...
Ok, so he could play for the soon-to-be-renamed Winnipeg Golden Seals of Anaheim and I wouldn't be mad.

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03-22-2005, 02:10 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
I questioned his TEAM attitude and whether he would give 100% for the coach and the TEAM. He always gave 100% of himself...but I was never sure whether it was for him or for the team. I think we found out when he decided to sit out the extra year. Jason Allison has been a punk since he played juniors and he remains a punk today.



That's your right but you just ask Theo Fleury and Eric Lindros if personal issues affect careers.

What I don't understand, though, is how you can be so sure the personal issues won't affect his career. But if you can, I would really like to borrow your crystal ball.
JT, you're a good debater. Debater.......is that even a word?

Anyway, it's good to see you wasting your time here rather than over at LGK. At least this way it's a "classier" waste. Hmmmm. Classier.......is that even a..............

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03-22-2005, 03:05 AM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
I questioned his TEAM attitude and whether he would give 100% for the coach and the TEAM. He always gave 100% of himself...but I was never sure whether it was for him or for the team. I think we found out when he decided to sit out the extra year. Jason Allison has been a punk since he played juniors and he remains a punk today.
again, what are you talking about?!??! when he was out on the ice, he wasn't a "me only" player, he was a pretty damn good team player. or is it the 55 assists that made him seem selfish? and at what point did u find out that he was a punk and just "decided to sit out the extra year"? was it when he wasn't even able to pass the physicals in carolina? or was it when he was still suffering from post-concussion syndrome that gave him away? where do you get these assumptions from and, more importantly, how do you get yourself to believe in these wonderful tales of fiction???


Quote:
That's your right but you just ask Theo Fleury and Eric Lindros if personal issues affect careers.

What I don't understand, though, is how you can be so sure the personal issues won't affect his career. But if you can, I would really like to borrow your crystal ball.
hahah, WHAT?!?! first of all, i said i wasn't convinced his personal issues would affect HIS career, not that it wont' affect anyone's career. but my favorite is the second line, here u are pokin fun with the "crystal ball" for my opinion that its not goin to affect his career becuase it disagrees with your grand assumption that it absolutely will. fabulous.


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03-22-2005, 03:17 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
hahah, WHAT?!?! first of all, i said i wasn't convinced his personal issues would affect HIS career, not that it wont' affect anyone's career.
"Despite his impressive stats, personal issues and clashes with coaches lowered OíSullivanís stock in the eyes of many NHL clubs and allowed the Wild to select first round talent in the second round, 56th overall in 2003."

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospect.php?pid=3580

It's not just the personal problems with his father. He's clashed with coaches, as well. There is some validity to jt saying O'Sullivan has some risks, too. That's not even factoring in the problem with his father.

But to be honest, that's a problem I could have looked over. I wanted O'Sullivan picked by us, too... but either way we'd be dealing with one type of problem over another.

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03-22-2005, 09:39 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Daleks
JT, you're a good debater. Debater.......is that even a word?

Anyway, it's good to see you wasting your time here rather than over at LGK. At least this way it's a "classier" waste. Hmmmm. Classier.......is that even a..............
Wordifying is cool.

So I have "class" now? DAMMIT!! Now what am I supposed to do?

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03-22-2005, 09:54 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
again, what are you talking about?!??! when he was out on the ice, he wasn't a "me only" player, he was a pretty damn good team player. or is it the 55 assists that made him seem selfish? and at what point did u find out that he was a punk and just "decided to sit out the extra year"? was it when he wasn't even able to pass the physicals in carolina? or was it when he was still suffering from post-concussion syndrome that gave him away? where do you get these assumptions from and, more importantly, how do you get yourself to believe in these wonderful tales of fiction???
Are stats the only thing that matter to you? Or does listening to the coach matter? Is this a fantasy hockey team or a real hockey team?

I've had enough discussions with enough people over enough years who have enough personal knowledge as well as read enough stories about him from juniors to Portland to Washington to Boston to LA. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine.

BTW, he never had a concussion and, thus, has no post-concussion syndrome. What he has is a chemical imbalance of serotonin, apparently caused by whiplash. Through trial and error, this is manageable with drugs and is not a physiological condition like concussion. As I understand it, he had it under control and could have played but chose not to. The Kings drs cleared him (medically speaking) to play in December when he "felt he could". And, in fact, in an ESPN interview I heard on the radio in June (sorry I can't give you a link since it wasn't on the net), Allison himself said he could have played in January or February but elected not to. Chemical imbalances are a tough thing (my wife has one) but he either didn't get it under control and couldn't play (which does not appear to be the case) or he did get it under control and chose not to play (which appears to be the case).

Quote:
hahah, WHAT?!?! first of all, i said i wasn't convinced his personal issues would affect HIS career, not that it wont' affect anyone's career. but my favorite is the second line, here u are pokin fun with the "crystal ball" for my opinion that its not goin to affect his career becuase it disagrees with your grand assumption that it absolutely will. fabulous.
So if you don't have a crystal ball, what exactly are you basing your opinion on that his personal issues won't affect his career? Personal knowledge? Lots of reading and research? Tarot cards?

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03-22-2005, 10:01 AM
  #189
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He uses chicken bones JT.

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03-22-2005, 10:03 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King'sPawn
But to be honest, that's a problem I could have looked over. I wanted O'Sullivan picked by us, too... but either way we'd be dealing with one type of problem over another.
And that's exactly my point. It seems that the "DT shouldn't have picked Boyle" people are focusing on Boyle's downside. When they're pressed to say who DT should have picked, most say O'Sullivan or Fritsche. Then, not only do they look past their downside, they won't even acknowledge that they HAVE any.

I have no problems with people disliking the Boyle pick. What bugs me is the people who talk like O'Sullivan and Fritsche (or anyone else available at #26) had no risk. I'm in risk management and I do risk analysis for a living. So I have no problems at all with people who chose one type of risk over another...and that's exactly what the Boyle debate is IMO. It's not a risk vs no risk question. It's whether you want to take a risk on a kid who has alot to learn about dedication and effort to the game (Boyle)...or a kid who has alot of growing up to do (O'Sullivan)...or a kid with serious injury problems (Fritsche). I don't think there is one "right" answer...it's about what type of risk you want to take. DT tends to avoid the kids who have to overcome serious attitude/maturity issues...and I see nothing wrong with that.

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03-22-2005, 10:04 AM
  #191
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Jason Allison fell in his draft year because of his skating ability (or lack thereof). attitude was way down the list if even an issue at all.

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03-22-2005, 10:12 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by KING ELVI
He uses chicken bones JT.
I had a vision of Angel Heart when I read that...damn that was a good movie.

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03-22-2005, 10:19 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt
Are stats the only thing that matter to you? Or does listening to the coach matter? Is this a fantasy hockey team or a real hockey team?

I've had enough discussions with enough people over enough years who have enough personal knowledge as well as read enough stories about him from juniors to Portland to Washington to Boston to LA. If you don't want to believe it, that's fine.

BTW, he never had a concussion and, thus, has no post-concussion syndrome. What he has is a chemical imbalance of serotonin, apparently caused by whiplash. Through trial and error, this is manageable with drugs and is not a physiological condition like concussion. As I understand it, he had it under control and could have played but chose not to. The Kings drs cleared him (medically speaking) to play in December when he "felt he could". And, in fact, in an ESPN interview I heard on the radio in June (sorry I can't give you a link since it wasn't on the net), Allison himself said he could have played in January or February but elected not to. Chemical imbalances are a tough thing (my wife has one) but he either didn't get it under control and couldn't play (which does not appear to be the case) or he did get it under control and chose not to play (which appears to be the case).
honestly, i have no idea where u get ur info from. everything u say contradicts what was said out there. explain to me what happend with allison and carolina. i forgot exactly what happend but either he didn't show up to the test cuase he knew he wouldn't pass or he didn't pass. if he was fakin it w/ the kings, why would he fake it w/ the team that was interestd in signing him?

is it so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe he wasn't well enough to play? during playoffs, he played w/ a jacked up hip, he didn't complain. he never had the rep for being a pansy or one that skipped out, why would last year be any different?
i still remember, when he went down from the knee injury, i think miller was the one who said something ot the effect of "seeing him lying out on the ice there, if he didn't come to the bench, then u kno it's serious." allison will play if he can play, he doesn't screw around. this was as good as a player as we had and was the best candidate for captain, even moreso then norstrom, IMO.


Quote:
So if you don't have a crystal ball, what exactly are you basing your opinion on that his personal issues won't affect his career? Personal knowledge? Lots of reading and research? Tarot cards?
ur missing the point. im saying its my opinion its not goin to affect his career, ur saying its YOUR OPINION it is. but for some reason, u believe since its ur opinion, it somehow has more weight and therefore is right when it's just YOUR OPINION. is that clear enough?

so explain to me how my opinion is based off of "chicken bones and crystal balls" while urs comes straight down from the heaven and just so happens to be more "right" becuase of it?

and just becuase a guy has a spout w/ his coach doens't mean he has personality issues. stuff like this happens and it's better you get the real story before you label someone with personal issues.

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03-22-2005, 11:22 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by tomd
Jason Allison fell in his draft year because of his skating ability (or lack thereof). attitude was way down the list if even an issue at all.
Well, as a Caps fan for 25+ years I disagree with you. I followed him from the day he was drafted and he has ALWAYS had attitude problems that have caused problems with EVERY organization AND coach he's ever had from London to Portland to Washington to Boston to LA...everywhere he's gone there's ALWAYS a serious personnel problem. The only person ever to curb that was Mike Keenan and that was pretty short-lived.

It's pretty hard to find pre-draft analysis online from 1993, but I read the articles back then and, although he couldn't skate well and that was a factor...the biggest factor was all his run-ins with his team. I wish I could provide links but most of it was in paper. There were lots of stories about his problems with Gary Agnew in London but in Portland he was such a problem he was repeatedly benched because he couldn't get along with Barry Trotz (the coach). Yes, Trotz has always been hard on his players, but he's fair and he's good. Then he had problems with Schoenfeld for a year (no surprise there), then Pat Burns then Andy Murray. At what point should we look at the player and say it's him and not everyone else?

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03-22-2005, 11:47 AM
  #195
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thought this thread was supposed to be about Boyle? it has deteriorated into talking about Jason Allison. I have never been a fan of Jason Allison and I never will. He has a terrible attitude and he allways thinks the world owes him a favor. Sorry I dont want guys like that on my hockey club.

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03-22-2005, 12:16 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
thought this thread was supposed to be about Boyle? it has deteriorated into talking about Jason Allison. I have never been a fan of Jason Allison and I never will. He has a terrible attitude and he allways thinks the world owes him a favor. Sorry I dont want guys like that on my hockey club.

Dont confuse Jason Allison the player vs the A-hole.

If I say I want a guy like Adam Deadmarsh on the team, Im not hoping for a guy with concussion problems.

A guy who can play like Allison is very valuable.

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03-22-2005, 01:48 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur
honestly, i have no idea where u get ur info from. everything u say contradicts what was said out there. explain to me what happend with allison and carolina. i forgot exactly what happend but either he didn't show up to the test cuase he knew he wouldn't pass or he didn't pass. if he was fakin it w/ the kings, why would he fake it w/ the team that was interestd in signing him?
Well all I can say is that what I'm saying is "what was said out there". You can look it up yourself.

Quote:
is it so hard to believe that maybe, just maybe he wasn't well enough to play?
After being told what I've been told and reading what I've read, yes, it's hard to believe.

Quote:
during playoffs, he played w/ a jacked up hip, he didn't complain. he never had the rep for being a pansy or one that skipped out, why would last year be any different?
The man's a bull and I admire him for that. He's played through injuries and I admire him for that. I loved how he played the game and after he was traded he turned me from really disliking him ALOT to absolutely loving his entire game. The kicker was Keenan's comment that Allison was the best Captain he'd ever had. But Allison is like so many other players who simply wear out their welcomes with the nonsense they bring to their teams. I know someone who was involved in his bowl-athon. You know why it was postponed so many times? Nobody wanted to go. You know why? Nobody likes him. Ok that's a little bit of an overstatement...but not by that much. I think his mom likes him.

Anyway, I'm not saying he's a pansy but he DID have a rep for being someone who skips out. That was one of the problems Agnew and Trotz both had with him. He has an entitlement mentality and anyone who questions it, he has problems with.

Quote:
ur missing the point. im saying its my opinion its not goin to affect his career, ur saying its YOUR OPINION it is. but for some reason, u believe since its ur opinion, it somehow has more weight and therefore is right when it's just YOUR OPINION. is that clear enough?
Actually, I don't have an opinion on whether O'Sullivan will turn out or not. Between the two of us, YOU are the ONLY one who is confident which way he'll go. I have no confidence AT ALL that O'Sullivan will or won't do anything. My only point is that he's as big a risk as Boyle...just for different reasons.

Quote:
so explain to me how my opinion is based off of "chicken bones and crystal balls" while urs comes straight down from the heaven and just so happens to be more "right" becuase of it?
So let me see if I have this straight. You are sniping at me because I think my opinion (that O'Sullivan isn't guaranteed to succeed) is right and I shouldn't even question your opinion? Why do you post on a public message board if you don't want anyone to question what you write?

Quote:
and just becuase a guy has a spout w/ his coach doens't mean he has personality issues. stuff like this happens and it's better you get the real story before you label someone with personal issues.
Pray tell...please direct me to your source that gave you "the real story". I have no "sources" on O'Sullivan, I simply read things from the likes of CSS, Bob McKenzie and Kevin Allen (USA Today). I don't pretend to have any inside knowledge abou him, but I've read enough from people who I hold in high regard that he's had problems. Does that mean he'll wash out? No. But he's got risk you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

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03-22-2005, 01:50 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkeMustGoDotCom
thought this thread was supposed to be about Boyle? it has deteriorated into talking about Jason Allison. I have never been a fan of Jason Allison and I never will. He has a terrible attitude and he allways thinks the world owes him a favor. Sorry I dont want guys like that on my hockey club.
You know what? That's a good point. I'm done talking about Jason Allison in this thread...he is what he is and I'm glad he's gone.

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03-22-2005, 02:00 PM
  #199
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If Allison was faking it how come he still didnt pass the physical at Carolina?

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03-22-2005, 02:21 PM
  #200
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Ok folks...let's move on and just talk about Boyle...the Next "Jason Allison"

I tell you a "funny" story about Allison, and it involves myself.
In the Summer of 2003 I've discovered the amazing world of Ebay, which, for a die hard hockey fan who lives in Italy, can be a very very very dangerous place (ehm, dangerous for my wallet and bank account). The very first days I was surfing the website, I've found an auction which got my attention: "Authentic LA Kings Jason Allison signed jersey". It was the old alternate jersey, the one in violet with already the crown in front. IMO the nicest of all our jerseys (speaking about the new logo). I was looking to buy a Frolov jersey, but heck, Allison was ok too...and he was going to come back in September. So I closed both eyes on the price, and boooom, in 3 weelks my beautiful jersey was here.

Game played by Allison since I bought his jersey? 0 - none - nada ...

You know, paying almost 350 bucs for a player jersey, and then realizing he won't play anymore for your team, sucks...oh boy, it really does.

I've worn it 3-4 times with my team during training sessions. Now it's hanging on the wall.

Any takers out there? I'll make a good price...

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