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Louis Berlinguette

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Old
03-03-2012, 10:18 PM
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Velociraptor
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Louis Berlinguette

Besides his three Retro Selkes, do we have any other indication that he was a valuable defensive forward? We know that he was very fast and could score goals, but does anybody here have anything else on his defensive prowess?

Thanks in advance,

VR

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03-03-2012, 11:22 PM
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EagleBelfour
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- Trail of the Stanley Cup call him a 'fierce backchecker'.

Of the books I own (I have about 50 books about the history of the game), it's all I've got. Your best bet is Google News.

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03-04-2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
- Trail of the Stanley Cup call him a 'fierce backchecker'.

Of the books I own (I have about 50 books about the history of the game), it's all I've got. Your best bet is Google News.
Hardly anything

Thanks for the quote though EB, that definitely shows something.

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03-04-2012, 08:38 AM
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I looked around and couldn't find a single reference to his defensive play. Just those three retro-selkes. So I have no idea.

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03-04-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arrbez View Post
I looked around and couldn't find a single reference to his defensive play. Just those three retro-selkes. So I have no idea.
Save the sole newspaper article I managed to find on his defensive play in my ATD bio, I have found nothing.

It is noteworthy that his three retro Selkes were won in 1918, 1921 and 1925 which at the very least suggests he was consistently valuable defensively throughout his career.

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03-04-2012, 11:27 AM
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Aurel Joliat
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Where did you read that he won defensive awards ?

He played many years with Montreal but sill a very mysterious player

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03-04-2012, 11:39 AM
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I am surprised that a guy that has won three retro Selkes is completely ignored by the media, even at that time. Makes you think about these awards.

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03-04-2012, 12:39 PM
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Yeah, the more research I've done the more I dismiss the retro-selkes. The winners are all at least good defensively, but, determining the winner seems faulty.

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03-04-2012, 04:19 PM
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Velociraptor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
Where did you read that he won defensive awards ?

He played many years with Montreal but sill a very mysterious player
Total Hockey's Retroactive Award Winners on this thread.

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03-04-2012, 07:52 PM
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EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
I believe those awards comes from the book 'Ultimate Hockey'

And honestly, with all the infos we are able to garner as a group, how the hell we can't find more than two quotes on someone like Louis Berlinguette, but that book was able to list the best defensive forward per year and per league?

Every of those awards should be taken lightly, especially anything awarded pré-league consolidation IMO.

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03-04-2012, 09:01 PM
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Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I believe those awards comes from the book 'Ultimate Hockey'

And honestly, with all the infos we are able to garner as a group, how the hell we can't find more than two quotes on someone like Louis Berlinguette, but that book was able to list the best defensive forward per year and per league?

Every of those awards should be taken lightly, especially anything awarded pré-league consolidation IMO.
Ultimate Hockey should only be read heavily salted. It should not be taken as an authority. The one quote from the Trail should probably carry more weight.

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03-04-2012, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I believe those awards comes from the book 'Ultimate Hockey'
Confirmed

Though it should be noted that while they give "Berlanquette" (their spelling) three retro-Selkes for the NHL, it has Jack Walker - the guy they name the top defensive forward of the 1910s - winning for the PCHA in 1918 and 1925, and Mickey MacKay, another hall of famer, winning for the PCHA in 1921. Not sure if Berlinguette would have won in their minds if the talent pools were consolidated.

Also, his Legends of Hockey entry says nothing of defensive play:

Quote:
He was a fine skater and goal scorer whose elan on the ice helped give the club the reputation of being the "Flying Frenchmen."

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03-04-2012, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagleBelfour View Post
I believe those awards comes from the book 'Ultimate Hockey'

And honestly, with all the infos we are able to garner as a group, how the hell we can't find more than two quotes on someone like Louis Berlinguette, but that book was able to list the best defensive forward per year and per league?

Every of those awards should be taken lightly, especially anything awarded pré-league consolidation IMO.
Yeah, my bad, I meant Total Hockey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOldeRyaneClowe View Post
Confirmed

Though it should be noted that while they give "Berlanquette" (their spelling) three retro-Selkes for the NHL, it has Jack Walker - the guy they name the top defensive forward of the 1910s - winning for the PCHA in 1918 and 1925, and Mickey MacKay, another hall of famer, winning for the PCHA in 1921. Not sure if Berlinguette would have won in their minds if the talent pools were consolidated.

Also, his Legends of Hockey entry says nothing of defensive play:
Walker nor MacKay joined the NHL until the 1926-1927 season, who are better defensive players than Berlinquette, would more than likely have won over him. But it still suggests that he was possibly the best defensive forward three different years over a seven year span. It might be the best we get, but it's some indication.

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03-04-2012, 09:53 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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For a "fine goal scorer," he was never top 10 in goals, despite playing before consolidation and playing next to Newsy Lalonde

Seems like a fast skater and good complementary player to Lalonde. Not sure how that compares to other players

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03-04-2012, 11:03 PM
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Aurel Joliat
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but during those years there were not a lot of line changes and Berlinguette was for the most part of his career a ''spare'' for the Canadiens.

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03-05-2012, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Yeah, the more research I've done the more I dismiss the retro-selkes. The winners are all at least good defensively, but, determining the winner seems faulty.
The hope is, that during the research for the book Ultimate Hockey, the authors saw articles during those "retro selke" seasons that convinced them that Berlinguette was the best defensive forward.

That's the hope, anyway.

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03-05-2012, 11:11 AM
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Iain Fyffe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeOldeRyaneClowe View Post
Though it should be noted that while they give "Berlanquette" (their spelling) three retro-Selkes for the NHL, it has Jack Walker - the guy they name the top defensive forward of the 1910s - winning for the PCHA in 1918 and 1925, and Mickey MacKay, another hall of famer, winning for the PCHA in 1921. Not sure if Berlinguette would have won in their minds if the talent pools were consolidated.
Berlinguette in 1921 and 1925 was playing in the same league as Frank Nighbor. He was in 1918, as well, but Nighbor played only half the year. As such I'd say 1918 is the only year Berlinguette would have a chance.

But it's pretty clear Berlinguette didn't play much that year. In 20 games he had three points and 12 PIM. He was mostly a substitute throughout his career, but there are low numbers even for him. I don't think he played nearly enough to be considered for such an award, even if he was exceptionally good defensively. And even though Nighbor didn't play a full season, he also had Jack Darragh and Eddie Gerard to contend with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
For a "fine goal scorer," he was never top 10 in goals, despite playing before consolidation and playing next to Newsy Lalonde
Indeed. Legends of hockey is another source to be wary of. The only time he came close to looking like a fine goal-scorer was in the TPHL, with 9 goals in 7 games. But a couple of players scored three times as many goals as he did that season in that league, and it was a pretty low-quality league as well.

He was not a goal-scorer by any stretch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velociraptor View Post
Walker nor MacKay joined the NHL until the 1926-1927 season, who are better defensive players than Berlinquette, would more than likely have won over him. But it still suggests that he was possibly the best defensive forward three different years over a seven year span. It might be the best we get, but it's some indication.
Only if you forget that Frank Nighbor was in his league from 1915/16 through the end of his career.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but during those years there were not a lot of line changes and Berlinguette was for the most part of his career a ''spare'' for the Canadiens.
He was mostly a spare, but did have some seasons where he was the primary LW, if not the only LW.

Overall I'd suggest Berlinguette should not have received any retro Selkes. I don't have any remarks about his defensive play in my notes as yet, though the quote from the Trail should not be ignored.

Additionally, since it's clear that he was not a gifted scorer, and yet he still put together a long professional career, we have to figure he has some good defensive value. Otherwise, why would Montreal have kept playing him?

That's certainly not enough to call him among the best of his time, of course, especially given the competition (Walker, Nighbor, MacKay, others).

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:52 PM
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http://ourhistory.canadiens.com/play...s-Berlinquette

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