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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part IV (All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

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Old
03-11-2012, 08:35 PM
  #201
The Gal Pals
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It's the egg and the hen in the case of AK in Montreal.

They did not give him PP time because he was not showing enough at 5 vs 5, and so on.

This year with all the injury to Gionta and the Cammy's trade, they should had try giving him a full time job on the top two lines, and a good chunk of PP time. They did not. he did not produce, and that,s the end of the story.

I am madder at the fact that we did not get Nashville's 1st pick in 2012 or 2013 for him.
As am I re the bolded part. I always knew AK46 was being misused but it stings like heck to see him and Sergei proving Mtl what good coaching can yield. Looks like we have a GM that can't properly negotiate and have had a slew of coaches that couldn't optimize the effectiveness of their players. The only person that deserves a pat on the back right now is Timmins. The rest of the management given me an ulcer with their idiocy.

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03-11-2012, 08:36 PM
  #202
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They're not going to realize anything. They just don't understand that being a 20-30 goal scorer BY DEFINITION means you're not scoring every second game, lol. Considering he had one of the heaviest shots on the team, and was one of the most solid on his skates, I just hope we can find someone to replace all that without breaking the cap bank. Bets on a Nashville-St.Louis Cup Final? Would be hilarious, lol. Build an NHL Contender - Chapter 1: Trade with Pierre Gauthier.
A Nashville-St. lLouis Cup Final would indeed be hilarious because yhery're both in the West Conference. I'll leave it to you to figure out how it could happen.

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Old
03-11-2012, 08:36 PM
  #203
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Fail thread.

In every PP had played here, he was in front of the net.
You're acting like he played on the PP often.

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03-11-2012, 08:38 PM
  #204
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Actually he scored almost identical goal this year for habs. It was against NJ. A shooter needs a passer that is a fact. How many passers MTL has? And how many of them have pass and vision like his bro?
Oops wasn't Sergei hab 2?

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03-11-2012, 08:38 PM
  #205
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Not coached well here and he lost his confidence and desire to play. Happy to see him playing well. That Kostitsyn duo is going to be to fun to watch in playoffs.

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03-11-2012, 08:39 PM
  #206
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You really don't make any sense.
But even if you want to say AK is a depth winger on the third line (all the while, super Darche is playing in the top 6), then why was he taken off Eller's wing?

I don't care if you think AK is not a big loss, nothing more than a 3rd liner, it's irrelevant. Point is, he's yet another player we did not manage properly.

Bill Clinton said it best about coach Richardson after he won the NCAA championships for Arkansas, as a coach, you need to be able to look at each player and say/tell them whatever they need to hear in order to succeed (paraphrasing).

If AK was our first ''problem'' player, I wouldn't be arguing here. But as you know, he isn't our first, nor our second, nor the third, nor the fourth. There's been one too many of them for it just to be a coincidence.
this

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Old
03-11-2012, 08:39 PM
  #207
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i think Weber is next on the list. I see the potential in this guy. If he played with more confidence I think he'd be great.

As for Andrei, while I'm stoked he's doing well in Nashville with his brother (always been a huge fan of the two of them), I'd wait a little bit before calling him a PPG player. He's known to go in domination mode for a few games then slowing down significantly. He's a streaky player after all.
Suppose he keeps it up. Would you weep bitter tears? I suppose you would, as would I. I hold it against Cunneyworth as much as IU do against Gauthier because he didn't stand up for him, denied him PP time, and reduced his minutes.

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03-11-2012, 08:41 PM
  #208
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Every team has moron fans that makes list of players they still wish they had on their team or draft picks that turned into stars. Their lists include Gorges, Cole, Eller, Gionta, etc. What is ironic is that most players that Habs fans wish they still had are good players on horrible teams. They did nothing to make their teams winners. (please don't argue that the reason Nashville has a good team is because of SK)
I suspect that economics had a lot to do with Carolina's not re-signing Cole.

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03-11-2012, 08:42 PM
  #209
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he did we just never had a guy like Sergei to pass him the puck


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Old
03-11-2012, 08:43 PM
  #210
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Sergei to Andrei!
...
Sergei to Andrei!

I feel your pain. I hate Gauthier with a passion...

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03-11-2012, 08:47 PM
  #211
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Trotz quote right after they acquired him (and had had a few practices) pointed out that Kost wasn't quite in the kind of shape he needed to be in to play the style of game the Preds play & that he wasn't used to their kind of tempo b/c, as he put it, Mtl plays a more "sit back" style of game.


I'd suggest that JM's style, and to a degree RC's adaptation of it, did a lot to temper & reduce the aggressivness of players in the attacking zone.

if you are constantly being lectured about, and punished for, playing too much in the offensive zone at the expense of being 100% of the time in the right defensive position, it ultimately takes away from your ability/desire to be aggressive...

a passive mindset can quickly lead to/translate to less willingness to "attack" the scoring areas, & perhaps that is part of the problem we've seen in recent years, with so many of our forwards seemingly unwilling or unable to play hard in front of the net...


if you look at last nights game (which is just a one-game sample... i'm by no means suggesting that it defines RC's coaching ability), our guys, all 4 lines, didn't shy away from playing aggressively in the attack.

early on, vs a much more skilled Vancouver team, it gave us no success & actually cost us big time in terms of scoring chances given up... but as the game wore on, our aggressive mindset eventually paid off.

as a defense-first kind of sports guy, I appreciate teams that limit chances... but I do think it's important to temper that with an aggressive mindset offensively, a balance that few coaches (in any team sport) truly understand and even fewer are capable of coaching it.

Trotz may be an example of a coach who does (though i don't watch nearly enough of the preds to really comment). Babcock certainly does... some call it "puck possession", but it's every bit a question of mindset as it is tactic...

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Old
03-11-2012, 08:47 PM
  #212
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I don't know why some (not all!) of my fellow Hab fans are beating themselves up over Sergei, Andrei, and even Grabovski!!! (I don't want 27mil tied up in Grabovski, and I sure as heck don't want 4mil or more tied up with extremely inconsistent Andrei).

Sergei will make 3 mil (or more) soon.
Andrei will get greedy and ask for 4mil/year and more per year soon (3mil to 3.5mil/year not more for me since he's so inconsistent, but he wants more of course...the usual NHL greed...they always want more, more, more).
Grabovski gets more than 5mil per year.

We can't sign everyone...we need lots of $$$$$$$$$$$ for players who should be Habs for a long time (Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Eller, Emelin, etc...). And then...Leblanc, Beaulieu, Gallagher, Tinordi, Ellis, maybe Kristo, maybe Dumba?!!...many potentially good players will also want lots of $$$$ one day. One thing...we cannot keep everyone.
Smart management has no choice but to be selective on who to keep (salary cap).


Smart management gets picks (when they can) instead of nothing...I'm excited about our TWO 2nd Rnd Picks for '12 and '13 , after all...Subban was a 2nd Rnd Pick, heck...Gallagher was a 5th Rnd Pick!!!! ). Timmins will make us Hab fans happy and we should be happy Timmins is a scout for us Hab fans and not the Bruins or Leafs/Leaves!!

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03-11-2012, 08:49 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I don't know why some (not all!) of my fellow Hab fans are beating themselves up over Sergei, Andrei, and even Grabovski!!! (I don't want 27mil tied up in Grabovski).

Sergei will make 3 mil (or more) soon.
Andrei will get greedy and ask for 4mil and more per year soon.
Grabovski gets more than 5mil per year.

We can't sign everyone...we need lots of $$$$$$$$$$$ for players who should be Habs for a long time (Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Eller, Emelin, etc...). And then...Leblanc, Beaulieu, Gallagher, Tinordi, Ellis, maybe Kristo...many potentially good players will also want lots of $$$$ one day. We cannot keep everyone.
Smart management has no choice but to be selective on who to keep (salary cap).


Smart management gets picks (when they can) instead of nothing...I'm excited about our TWO 2nd Rnd Picks for '12 and '13 , after all...Subban was a 2nd Rnd Pick, heck...Gallagher was a 5th Rnd Pick!!!! ). Timmins will make us Hab fans happy and we should be happy Timmins is a scout for us Hab fans and not the Bruins or Leafs/Leaves!!
the Habs suck
end of the story

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Old
03-11-2012, 08:51 PM
  #214
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Yep. ****in' piss poor asset management, and development by the habs strikes again.

At the time, I think the value was fair for him. But that's just the thing. The last time we traded an asset while their value was high was...Halak. Before then was the Rivet trade. We wait until the person absolutely has to be traded, then trade them for whatever the buyer is paying.

Why was AK traded this year, at the time he was? He was traded for nothing different than things he had done over his previous 6 seasons in montreal. That is a gigantic sample size for you to get your **** together on whether you want him to be here or not, and trade him while his value is high, like it always is at least once during the season.

All the habs did with AK is turn a 10th pick into a likely 50th pick.

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Old
03-11-2012, 08:53 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
I don't know why some (not all!) of my fellow Hab fans are beating themselves up over Sergei, Andrei, and even Grabovski!!! (I don't want 27mil tied up in Grabovski, and I sure as heck don't want 4mil or more tied up with extremely inconsistent Andrei).

Sergei will make 3 mil (or more) soon.
Andrei will get greedy and ask for 4mil/year and more per year soon (3mil to 3.5mil/year not more for me since he's so inconsistent, but he wants more of course...the usual NHL greed...they always want more, more, more).
Grabovski gets more than 5mil per year.

We can't sign everyone...we need lots of $$$$$$$$$$$ for players who should be Habs for a long time (Price, Subban, Pacioretty, Eller, Emelin, etc...). And then...Leblanc, Beaulieu, Gallagher, Tinordi, Ellis, maybe Kristo, maybe Dumba?!!...many potentially good players will also want lots of $$$$ one day. One thing...we cannot keep everyone.
Smart management has no choice but to be selective on who to keep (salary cap).


Smart management gets picks (when they can) instead of nothing...I'm excited about our TWO 2nd Rnd Picks for '12 and '13 , after all...Subban was a 2nd Rnd Pick, heck...Gallagher was a 5th Rnd Pick!!!! ). Timmins will make us Hab fans happy and we should be happy Timmins is a scout for us Hab fans and not the Bruins or Leafs/Leaves!!
There he is.

Hey...hey buddy. Did ya watch the game last night?


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Old
03-11-2012, 08:56 PM
  #216
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WOW this thread is fail the OP has no idea about anything

AK when used on the PP was very often in front of the net, most of the time actually

The problem was he was not given enough ice time or when he did caused too many turnovers or did not produce enough.

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03-11-2012, 09:05 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by The Price is Right View Post
Check his two goal right in front of the net. I barely saw him play there when he was with us..

Check goals at 0:59 and 2:05 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE3_D...UNveDZb2BpsBQ=
Pretty hard to park yourself in front on the PP when you are on the bench.

He barely got any Pp time with us due to our massive skill and dominant PP.

I said 2 weeks ago it was a joke how they were handling him before the deadline. If you're going to try and trade a player, showcase him instead of burying him.

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03-11-2012, 09:07 PM
  #218
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Good to see he has a huge smile on his face now that he's playing with his bro again, plus getting alot of ice time. Good for him, best of luck in Nashville.

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Old
03-11-2012, 09:14 PM
  #219
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It's funny, people often link the fight to Ribiero's departure and act like he was traded for outplaying Koivu. But Ribiero was actually traded after a fairly off year where he was outplayed by Koivu. In fact, the year prior where he led the team in scoring, he really only did so because Koivu was injured, and he played quite poorly in the playoffs.

I suspect that the real reason Gainey wanted to ship him out of town was his off-ice adventures with Theodore and Dagenais- notice that the three amigos all left town around the same time. Why the team was preoccupied with their off-ice adventures, I don't know, but it was probably it. Not a Gainey player because of that, plus poor attitude and weak defensively.

Even looking at it now, I don't see how much of an impact Ribiero would have had for the club. He probably would have blocked Plekanec for a couple of years, then when Koivu's contract expired, we'd have Ribiero and Plekanec as the top two.

So what would have happened? No Gomez trade, maybe. But I think that by that time we'd all be saying that Ribiero is soft and not a big centre, etc, etc, etc...and right now Desharnais is a similarly soft but skilled playmaking centre. Their numbers are quite close in fact.

All that said, Gainey was quite right to trade him, no need for another soft playmaker, but the return was just so abysmal. Very poor pro scouting of Ninimaa, who was washed up by then.
Don't see how he was right to trade him. Even if he was behind Koivu...that makes him a #2 centerman. Pleks was not ready to take charge anyway. I just find it funny that we judge players and already put labels on them while they are 23 years old. So for the sake of having better, you keep him. And they guy did produce. With or without Koivu, he did end up 1st in scoring of a good team. Nothing more, nothing less. So he might not have been at a team on our minds if we'd want to become a better team....but there was no rush in trading him. Especially not for the return we had. And if you do think you HAVE to trade him, you make sure the guy is seen as great so you'd get the greatest return possible. Not do like we keep doing since the Roy trade and trade our guys with either the lowest of value or when we have NO CHOICE but to trade them which teams see us miles ahead.

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Old
03-11-2012, 09:17 PM
  #220
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Good to see he has a huge smile on his face now that he's playing with his bro again, plus getting alot of ice time. Good for him, best of luck in Nashville.
Sergei proving to the world how amazing he is once again !!

Unfortunately, a dumb coach and some ignorant fans pointed the figure towards him... sad...

Jacques Martin and Scott Gomez... I'm looking at you...

A line of Andrei - Grabovski - Sergei would've been killer...sad...

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03-11-2012, 09:17 PM
  #221
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5 games.

Some of you have a huge problem with over inflating certain players. Andrei was inconsistent. Inconsistent players are always traded. Do I agree with how he was used? No. But lets not sit here and act like he was this legendary player. His numbers have been pretty much the same his entire career. He was going to be a UFA and was going to command upwards to $5M. I sure as hell would not give him 5...

If Andrei decides to play every game, he could be a PPG player. Didn't seem like that was going to happen here. So he was traded. He wasn't the right guy for this team. He IS for a team like Nashville. Period.

Stop romanticizing average players.

Get over it.


Last edited by hockeyfan2k11: 03-11-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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Old
03-11-2012, 09:18 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Trotz quote right after they acquired him (and had had a few practices) pointed out that Kost wasn't quite in the kind of shape he needed to be in to play the style of game the Preds play & that he wasn't used to their kind of tempo b/c, as he put it, Mtl plays a more "sit back" style of game.


I'd suggest that JM's style, and to a degree RC's adaptation of it, did a lot to temper & reduce the aggressivness of players in the attacking zone.

if you are constantly being lectured about, and punished for, playing too much in the offensive zone at the expense of being 100% of the time in the right defensive position, it ultimately takes away from your ability/desire to be aggressive...

a passive mindset can quickly lead to/translate to less willingness to "attack" the scoring areas, & perhaps that is part of the problem we've seen in recent years, with so many of our forwards seemingly unwilling or unable to play hard in front of the net...


if you look at last nights game (which is just a one-game sample... i'm by no means suggesting that it defines RC's coaching ability), our guys, all 4 lines, didn't shy away from playing aggressively in the attack.

early on, vs a much more skilled Vancouver team, it gave us no success & actually cost us big time in terms of scoring chances given up... but as the game wore on, our aggressive mindset eventually paid off.

as a defense-first kind of sports guy, I appreciate teams that limit chances... but I do think it's important to temper that with an aggressive mindset offensively, a balance that few coaches (in any team sport) truly understand and even fewer are capable of coaching it.

Trotz may be an example of a coach who does (though i don't watch nearly enough of the preds to really comment). Babcock certainly does... some call it "puck possession", but it's every bit a question of mindset as it is tactic...
Yea, and it was the same thing when Martin first came in too right? Didn't he say he had never seen a group so out of shape?
Emelin had a gut in the pictures in pre-season, I wonder what Trotz would think of that? But he's been playing well regardless.

In any event, it's not really the problem. Surely, you never want to hear that players are out of shape. But the real issue is wasting our assets and mismanagement.

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Old
03-11-2012, 09:18 PM
  #223
Madam Kadri
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Kostitsyn is a player who will help out in few games, but in those few games he's quite productive. On the statsheet, this means he has, on average, a little less than half of his games be ones in which he produces one or more points, and a little more than half of his games be ones in which he has no points. For example, in 2009-2010 he had 34 zero-point games and 25 games with a point or more.

So, what we lost is a guy who can assist us in scoring in a little less than half the games in a given season, provided that his intangible aspects on the stat sheet, like defensive play or dumb penalties, does not hurt the team.

Yes, we did lose something with losing AK, but how of that loss is really hurting us is not so easy to determine. Are the games in which he produced points enough to offset the many quiet games he had? I myself do not have a clear answer. We will definitely miss the AK that played with Pleks a couple years ago and Eller recently, but the AK who played with Gomez and the AK who didn't show up in a game, we will not.

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03-11-2012, 09:22 PM
  #224
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AK is like a whole lot of players. You can't lose him. The day you do, you can't recuperate him. His confidence with us was quite shattered, we never been able to gain him back. And we did that with so many players. A management that doesn't learn, should not be given too many chances to **** it up. Some players respond well to being challenged. Some others don't. You have to know your players. You can't treat them the same way. We still don't get it. Somehow, they would want 20 Mathieu Darche in this team. Yet, a whole lot of heart and solely that will NOT make you win.

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03-11-2012, 09:29 PM
  #225
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Assuming a player we dump doesn't improve at all.
1) He gets regular power play time (In Mtl, Darche, Gomez, etc... have had more PP time depending on the period)
+2) He gets regular top 6 linemates. (He's been often on the 3rd and sometimes 4th line)
_______________________________________
=More goals and more points (not rocket science, will happen without fail)

(+AKost plays on the same line as his brother sometimes (happened very sparingly in Montreal for some unexplained reason)= Even more goals and more points)


Irrelevant bullcrap that gets brought up everytime a player gets dumped out of Montreal:
1) It was his last chance
2) He finally got his head screwed on right
3) He's matured
4) It's a new team
5) It was his problem because he didn't take his opportunity in Montreal
etc...

Fail: How about starting with better linemates and more PP time next time.

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