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Old
03-04-2012, 09:22 PM
  #51
Lazyking
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Plenty of potential replacements...who would be deemed better is up to each individual. Randy Sexton, Brian Lawton, Mike O'Connell, and Rick Dudley for starters.
None of those guys intrigue me.

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03-04-2012, 09:28 PM
  #52
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None of those guys intrigue me.
Most GM's available won't. Although if Larry Pleau was available, I'd love to have him come aboard.

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03-04-2012, 09:36 PM
  #53
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No offense PF but some of those guys are just brutal suggestions.

I don't want to fire Doug Wilson at all but if I had to pick a replacement it would probably be Laurence Gilman who's been the Canucks cap guru and assistant GM for quite some time and has done a fantastic job in that role IMO. There's also Nashville assistant GM Paul Fenton who's great. Or even the Sharks' current assistant Joe Will. There's risk involved in picking someone who's never been an NHL GM but I'd much prefer that to a proven failure like Dudley or O'Connell.

Just my opinion and I don't know nearly enough about other assistant GMs and hockey ops people around the league to make other suggestions. But, again, I would absolutely not fire Doug Wilson.

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Old
03-04-2012, 09:41 PM
  #54
Lazyking
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Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
No offense PF but some of those guys are just brutal suggestions.

I don't want to fire Doug Wilson at all but if I had to pick a replacement it would probably be Laurence Gilman who's been the Canucks cap guru and assistant GM for quite some time and has done a fantastic job in that role IMO. There's also Nashville assistant GM Paul Fenton who's great. Or even the Sharks' current assistant Joe Will. There's risk involved in picking someone who's never been an NHL GM but I'd much prefer that to a proven failure like Dudley or O'Connell.

Just my opinion and I don't know nearly enough about other assistant GMs and hockey ops people around the league to make other suggestions. But, again, I would absolutely not fire Doug Wilson.
i wouldn't fire him either but your suggestions seem much more palatable to the fanbase then proven failures.

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03-04-2012, 09:42 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wynan View Post
No offense PF but some of those guys are just brutal suggestions.

I don't want to fire Doug Wilson at all but if I had to pick a replacement it would probably be Laurence Gilman who's been the Canucks cap guru and assistant GM for quite some time and has done a fantastic job in that role IMO. There's also Nashville assistant GM Paul Fenton who's great. Or even the Sharks' current assistant Joe Will. There's risk involved in picking someone who's never been an NHL GM but I'd much prefer that to a proven failure like Dudley or O'Connell.

Just my opinion and I don't know nearly enough about other assistant GMs and hockey ops people around the league to make other suggestions. But, again, I would absolutely not fire Doug Wilson.
I'm not exactly in favor of canning Wilson either but I was just listing some former GM's that are available, nothing more. It happens quite frequently that when a new GM is needed, it's not someone you expect or even someone with GM experience. The Sharks in particular have made it a habit to hire in house when it comes to a new GM. For all we know, it could end up being Joe Will.

The problem is that it is impossible to know who is actually available and thus impossible to answer the question of who you'd want to succeed DW if he is canned for whatever reason.

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Old
03-04-2012, 10:06 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Rapid eye movemenT View Post
I'm not saying I would want to trade Pavs, but this team needs a major shakeup and he's got a lot of value. We're obviously not getting rid of JT, PM, or LC. I'm just saying I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if he is shopped a bit.

*sigh*

Sometimes I wish we could just completely rebuild this team. I'd love to see the Sharks land a RNH. Our prospect pool is pathetic.
Pavs is incredibly valuable to the Sharks. Without him every single facet of this team's play would falter. No way in HELL is he dealt, or even shopped.

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Old
03-04-2012, 10:52 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
No one that's an upgrade over DW will be available.
That's not true. There are a lot of qualified front office people and assistant gms out there capable of moving this team up the extra 3 spots in the standings (from 4th to 1st). A 3 spot improvement from last year's team is the Stanley Cup winner.

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Old
03-04-2012, 10:57 PM
  #58
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I don't know if we can acquire mojo. You can't buy it or trade for it. Time to find the flow police.

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Old
03-04-2012, 11:02 PM
  #59
Lazyking
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
That's not true. There are a lot of qualified front office people and assistant gms out there capable of moving this team up the extra 3 spots in the standings (from 4th to 1st). A 3 spot improvement from last year's team is the Stanley Cup winner.
Sharks have already been first in the standings and still didn't win a cup. Those front office people may be qualified but who's to say they fire DW, bring in an assitant GM and that person sets back the team even further?

It's an unknown I'm personally not ready for.

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Old
03-04-2012, 11:22 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
Sharks have already been first in the standings and still didn't win a cup. Those front office people may be qualified but who's to say they fire DW, bring in an assitant GM and that person sets back the team even further?

It's an unknown I'm personally not ready for.
But it is a fairly standard practice for the Sharks over the years. After Ferriera and company came over from Minnesota, they went with Chuck Grillo and Dean Lombardi as GM's who were both part of the staff at the time of their selection...same I think goes for Doug Wilson. Nobody really knew these guys before they held the position and some of them succeeded and some didn't. lol

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Old
03-04-2012, 11:24 PM
  #61
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IMO DW has done a pretty good job of giving this organization the tools to be a perennial contender, after that it's up to the coaching staff and the players to get the job done.

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Old
03-04-2012, 11:55 PM
  #62
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make Owen Nolan the new coach with Odgers and Irbe as assistants

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:19 AM
  #63
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trade Marleau

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:21 AM
  #64
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Fire the damn assistants and maybe even McClellan as soon as this season is over.

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Old
03-05-2012, 10:11 AM
  #65
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Put Nolan on the bench. If he cant light a fire under this team, no one can, and means we should just blow er up.

Oh and not to mention we might see a *gasp bodycheck Gasp* once in a while, from someone not named murray or clowe.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:18 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazyking View Post
Sharks have already been first in the standings and still didn't win a cup. Those front office people may be qualified but who's to say they fire DW, bring in an assitant GM and that person sets back the team even further?

It's an unknown I'm personally not ready for.
More often than not, going to the conf. finals is followed by a downturn. To go 2 years in a row is an accomplishment not to looked down upon. Look at some of the guys who have made the "big" trades after winning the cup. They have faded to almost nothingness. MOC had a major downturn through his moves. Dudley would have traded Lecavalier before he was fired and Tampa subsequently won a cup. Burke was lucky in Anaheim to get Neids and have a fantastic draft yet managed to create a team which was the definition of one and done. Burke may have got the Sedins for Vanc., but it was the subsequent group which did the tweaks to get them to the finals and Burke's draft record is not impressive. Rutherford won a cup but has holes in his resume with a very erratic playoff record.

The "big" trades have a very spotty record for team effect. Consistency for a GM comes from drafting and developing well. We are watching teams climb to the pinnacle who have insisted on quality in that regard. The Sharks are above average, but not great. They parlayed a decent record in trades plus their drafting to get where they are, but it is definitely short. If they were to replace DW, they should really be looking to a GM who goes with the "from within" philosophy and a reworking of the scouting group. The environment mitigates against GMs who have that philosophy with almost all following a path of meddling (trading) too much. Good luck finding the right guy in these circumstances.

I doubt that there is a big trade out there that will immediately improve the Sharks at this point. I think that the next big trade will signal the start of a major reworking of the Sharks lineup and with any luck a change in the philosophy of the front office with regards to buying talent.

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:26 PM
  #67
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-fire staff or gm or both
-get a new coach with an effective system for our core players
-never sign a goalie to more than 3yrs ever again
-get rid of mitchell and white
-have a martini

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Old
03-05-2012, 12:53 PM
  #68
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I think it's dumb to blame assistant coaches, a goalie coach or a 6th defenseman this bad season. The GM is responsible for all these people being here. Mitchell, Colin White, Handzus, Niemi - anyone we've ever blamed for a loss in a GDT was brought in by Doug Wilson. Tiny changes aren't going to do much, because he'll find another Wallin/Huskins/White. If you chop the tail off, it'll just grow back and be the same lizard from before.

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03-05-2012, 01:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
I think it's dumb to blame assistant coaches, a goalie coach or a 6th defenseman this bad season. The GM is responsible for all these people being here. Mitchell, Colin White, Handzus, Niemi - anyone we've ever blamed for a loss in a GDT was brought in by Doug Wilson. Tiny changes aren't going to do much, because he'll find another Wallin/Huskins/White. If you chop the tail off, it'll just grow back and be the same lizard from before.
That's pretty odd logic. By that logic it's not DW's fault, it's the owners fault for hiring DW. Or maybe it's Gary Bettmans fault!

DW is not a fortune teller, I have no issues with his hiring of Todd. Hiring a coach is always a gamble, and Todd seemed liked a good gamble at the time, it simply hasn't worked out. I dont even blame him for not firing up until now, but it is time.

I don't blame him for White. That was a bargain you just could not turn down. No one could have known how poorly White would play, he's been consistent as hell throughout his career.

I don't blame him too much for Handzus. He had the right idea (solid 3rd line center who can Pk, who can take faceoffs and play solid two-way minutes) but Handzus has just totally fallen on his face this season with no real explanation as to why (could be coaching...).

He's made some dumb moves, like the Wallin trade, but he's never done something totally stupid. A lot of his bad signings can be attributed to a lack of options (people not wanting to play here). He's put together a competitive team year after year, he won't be fired, and shouldn't be. I would say he's actually improving as well.

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:07 PM
  #70
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So, back to back WCF appearances, 1rst in the West at the ASG break and if we had gotten 6 more points out of that road trip from hell like we should have we'd be in first place in the division by 4 points with a game in hand, but it's time to fire the coaching staff and maybe DW. Complete over reaction at this point.

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:12 PM
  #71
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Re: White, Direct quote from Wyshynski (Devils fan) "Colin White has been a pylon since the lockout."

He should have saw that coming, or maybe projected Braun becoming an NHL during this season. Depth is important, but he could have made a trade later if it became a need rather than tying up a contract in a bad player.

Wilson deserves more of the blame here. I can't believe he's getting off this easy.

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03-05-2012, 01:14 PM
  #72
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That's pretty odd logic. By that logic it's not DW's fault, it's the owners fault for hiring DW. Or maybe it's Gary Bettmans fault!

DW is not a fortune teller, I have no issues with his hiring of Todd. Hiring a coach is always a gamble, and Todd seemed liked a good gamble at the time, it simply hasn't worked out. I dont even blame him for not firing up until now, but it is time.

I don't blame him for White. That was a bargain you just could not turn down. No one could have known how poorly White would play, he's been consistent as hell throughout his career.

I don't blame him too much for Handzus. He had the right idea (solid 3rd line center who can Pk, who can take faceoffs and play solid two-way minutes) but Handzus has just totally fallen on his face this season with no real explanation as to why (could be coaching...).

He's made some dumb moves, like the Wallin trade, but he's never done something totally stupid. A lot of his bad signings can be attributed to a lack of options (people not wanting to play here). He's put together a competitive team year after year, he won't be fired, and shouldn't be. I would say he's actually improving as well.
White was foreseeable. He needed the talk with Lou; it wasn't a trade where Lou had an interest in hiding assessments. A buyout in itself is a pretty damning assessment, no GM does so lightly.

I would look at both of DW and TM for the paradigm for veteran 6th defenseman. They have gone for it and failed twice (White and Wallin). I actually think it may be TM who seems to emphasize maturity in the lineup. TM doesn't have final say but does have input.

I do question the reliance on vets in the win now approach. Almost all winners have younger "from within" players in the lower part of lineup. And, TM doesn't seem to emphasize the development of those guys. It could be an issue of the skill/development of those guys who DW has drafted or acquired. That isn't to say there shouldn't be some vet lower line players, but we can all see that the Sharks are far behind others in coming up with promising lower line players recently. TM may be in Detroit mode with regards those players, but the org is not a position to go Detroit mode with long development times.

Handzus was an issue that was partly foreseeable. It was a difference in systems with LA. TM needs speed to optimize his system. LA didn't. Handzus was a purely defensive guy who got some second line and PP time. Close analysis would have revealed that as it would have revealed a middling record for PK despite the minutes.

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:15 PM
  #73
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So, back to back WCF appearances, 1rst in the West at the ASG break and if we had gotten 6 more points out of that road trip from hell like we should have we'd be in first place in the division by 4 points with a game in hand, but it's time to fire the coaching staff and maybe DW. Complete over reaction at this point.
Over reaction or not, I think that it's a good thing for a fan base to react like this. Expect, and demand excellence. I completely agree that things aren't as bad as they seem, but a fan base demanding a winner is never a bad thing. We've grown accustomed to success, so even a small dip in that productivity feels huge.

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Old
03-05-2012, 01:19 PM
  #74
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Yeah but at the same time, we can't take the success for granted. Making a rash decision on a slump is not a good idea. Hack, maybe the players are going out there expecting to win and the adversity they're facing will be good for them.

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03-05-2012, 01:24 PM
  #75
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I wasn't suggesting moves need to be made, I actually think we need to stay the course. That said, I'd still rather be a part of a fan base where mediocrity isn't tolerated over one where losing is met with no reaction.

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