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Old
03-06-2012, 09:37 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
Toronto got ripped on that one. I mean Grabo is a good player, but 5.5m good? Not too sure on that one.

But I guess that is how contracts are going to be with the cap at the level it is.
He's basically their number one center for the foreseeable future, so 5.5 isn't bad for them.

I wonder if we'll see a Koivu extension now that Grabo is off the market. I doubt we're using Ryan as trade bait, nor do I see us moving our first - short of trading back a few spots.

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03-06-2012, 09:45 AM
  #102
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$5.5M for Grabovski, apparently. More than Getz/Perry for another year. Having him around at that kind of money next season would not be a good point when negotiating their next deal. (Having him in the same league is bad enough in that regard, though.) Could have taken even more in free agency. Great year to be a UFA.

That's way to high for him......Burke got bent over.


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03-06-2012, 09:55 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
He's basically their number one center for the foreseeable future, so 5.5 isn't bad for them.

I wonder if we'll see a Koivu extension now that Grabo is off the market. I doubt we're using Ryan as trade bait, nor do I see us moving our first - short of trading back a few spots.
Hope so, I don't really see us trading for centers unless we package Vish+picks and someone is gullible enough to take it. Sign Koivu and maybe give Holland a chance on the lineup already this season if we don't have a chance anymore at getting to the PO's.

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03-06-2012, 10:46 AM
  #104
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Someone saw Grabovski with Ducks uniform for 3.5 mln

Looks like we must re-sign Koivu and prepare Holland for 13/14...of course we can try to trade for 2C, but I don't want to trade Bobby...

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03-06-2012, 12:05 PM
  #105
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Wow 5.5 for Grabovski.

I figured he'd get 5.3 in FA. Maybe 5.5. But that Toronto would be able to get him for about 5. Seems a little rich to me. Is there an NTC or something? Because that would make it worse. That's what was so bad about the Ruutu deal. The dollars seemed OK, not great. But he got an NTC and term. Basically he had his cake and ate it too.

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03-06-2012, 12:18 PM
  #106
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Wow 5.5 for Grabovski.

I figured he'd get 5.3 in FA. Maybe 5.5. But that Toronto would be able to get him for about 5. Seems a little rich to me. Is there an NTC or something? Because that would make it worse. That's what was so bad about the Ruutu deal. The dollars seemed OK, not great. But he got an NTC and term. Basically he had his cake and ate it too.
I thought I read something about a limited NTC (which I also believe would be the best Burke would hand out), but haven't seen anything remotely official there. But you're right, I thought it would take Toronto less to re-sign him. But with him and Ruutu, they both played a very strong hand. With Grabo, he had no center available in free agency going for him. Similar thing with Ruutu to a lesser degree, plus Carolina not being able to land a noticeable UFA for cheaper. Just a perfect situation and timing for these two. They could choose their cake, have it made to the image they like, have it and eat it.

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03-06-2012, 02:33 PM
  #107
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Grabovski is a hell of a player and maybe the player I was most wrong about in the NHL (I thought he would top out as a 45 point 2nd/3rd liner) but $5.5M is too much. That puts him above Ryan Kesler who is streets ahead of him.

It looks like the glaring hole we have down the middle is going to need to be addressed via trade. Koivu is an ideal third liner but is way too streaky offensively to be counted on to play on our 2nd line for another year.

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03-06-2012, 02:36 PM
  #108
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5.5 for Grab... maybe something like 3.5-4 for Penner...

There is an ideal amount that these guys will earn, and a practical. Practically speaking, if your team flounders and misses the playoffs, they stand to lose ticket sales for that year and the next year. And overpaying an extra couple mil here and there is better than losing out on attendance and TV contracts.

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03-06-2012, 03:11 PM
  #109
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Penner has 13 points this season, he will not get close to $3.5M.

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03-06-2012, 04:31 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Penner has 13 points this season, he will not get close to $3.5M.
Well, if you ever knew with NHL free agency. All it take is a team in a weird spot like Florida last year, that is required to hand out cotton candy contracts to reach the cap floor, and you never know will end up making $3M+ for a while. But yeah, the chance of him getting such a deal anywhere is pretty small, and the chance he would get that here should be close to zero.

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03-06-2012, 07:10 PM
  #111
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I understand Koivu isn't a top second line center... but he's far from one of the worst. Koivu should be on our third line if we can sign someone better, but I doubt we even can, without giving up important assets.

best thing we can do is draft someone who can play next year... but that looks more and more unlikely as we play on.

even if we do sign someone better, how are we supposed to keep Teemu, let a lone Koivu on the team, if they want to sign a new second line center, who is better than Koivu.

This team is doomed to fail unless the budget is increased by at least the salary of one of Teemu or Koivu, if they stay. But could do great things if we convince Teemu and Saku to come back for one more year. No way Teemu comes back to play third line minutes... but lines to share second line minutes / rest Getzlaf/ Perry, is exactly what this team has needed... since Perry and Getzlaf became the new team leaders, after winning the cup.

all this pie in the sky "we can make this team better" is just completely useless, without raising the budget. especially when so many more teams are spending to the cap and getting guys signed long term.

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03-06-2012, 07:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Well, if you ever knew with NHL free agency. All it take is a team in a weird spot like Florida last year, that is required to hand out cotton candy contracts to reach the cap floor, and you never know will end up making $3M+ for a while. But yeah, the chance of him getting such a deal anywhere is pretty small, and the chance he would get that here should be close to zero.
close to zero?

I thought some ppl were saying we should pass at 2 million, without a second thought.

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03-06-2012, 07:24 PM
  #113
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Not wanting to put lots of responsibility on a rookie = fear of putting rookies into the team? Ok then. Prospects are the most overhyped thing on this board by a lot of people, it's ridiculous.

People are pencilling Palmieri, Etem and Holland or the Eastern European prospects with funny names all in our top 6. I can't see all 3 getting in, and if they are we'll be in trouble if we're relying on them to perform in those roles before even seeing them play.

Let's not forget some of our best players in our team now played bottom 6 minutes till they could prove they can play in a top 6 role. If any of the prospects PROVE they can play in the top 6 then fine, but it will be a terrible, terrible mistake if we are relying on rookies to play top 6 minutes.
I don't get Palmieri at all. He seems like one of those guys who scores at the AHL level, but falls flat in the NHL. small sample size, but didn't impress me at all.

The only player I expect ready to play in the top 6 at all would be Etem... With Ryan back on left wing, Etem would have to adjust to left wing... but if we somehow land a second line center... Etem and Ryan seem like a good fit together.

still won't be surprised to see Koivu as our second line center next year.

and see Etem starting off on the third line with Holland, or our 2012 draft pick if we're lucky enough to get one of the good centermen.

DSP-Holland-Etem sounds like s decent third line... hugely inexperienced, but talented for sure.

Jason blake has no role on this team, not with Cogliano on the team. I think adding Penner + centerman, and retaining Hagman, is all this team needs to do to compete. Ellis isn't a terrible backup, but I think we could do better.

If we can trade Cogliano in a deal for a second line center.. (obviously we would have to add) I say keep Blake around if possible. he works in a bottom 6 role, and can fill in for injuries in the top 6 if absolutely necessary.

again, I think this team is dead in the water, without a an increase in budget.. The budget could have worked as is, but Murray made some horrible decisions, and didn't go after the right people.

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03-06-2012, 07:31 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
close to zero?

I thought some ppl were saying we should pass at 2 million, without a second thought.
I know. But I like to keep absolute statements to cases where I can actually guarantee their outcome. I find it incredibly unlikely, but Murray could be in love with Penner, or Getzlaf and Perry could be and call him a dozen times (each!) every day through June to tell him they want him back, while promising to sign for cheaper. It doesn't really take a lot to be entirely different from what I believe, so I feel it would be wise to stick with "close to zero"... I can tell you that it is pretty damn close to zero, though, at that price.

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03-06-2012, 08:26 PM
  #115
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I've really liked the strides Bonino has made this year and would have no problem with him being our full time 3rd lien center.

I really dislike Pelley though and feels he's just a waste of ice time. He's not overly physical, is not very reliable defensively and has 0 scoring touch.

I would bring back Koivu (can never have enough reliable faceoff centermen) as 2nd line center and potentially 3rd line center (that would bump Bonino to 4th line but that would mean we could role 4 killer lines).

I would offer a 1 year deal to either hagman or blake and whoever took it first gets the spot. I try to resign Brookbank too if he's willing to take an affordable contract and realize he may be fighting for time with a rookie (Schulz/Vaatanen)

Then I would look for a long term solution for our 2nd line. I can see Koivu useful for a few more years, but Holland hasn't done anything to make me believe he's the solution.

I don't think we can throw money at this problem especially with Getzlaf, Perry, Fowler, Vishnovsky all free agents next year.

Centers
Getzlaf
Trade/FA Center (2nd line or 4th line)
Koivu
Bonino
Holland in the AHL to start

Wingers
Perry
Ryan
DSP
Cogliano
Etem/Palmeiri (assume the other is in the AHL)
Hagman/Blake
Belesky
Scrub
Parros

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03-06-2012, 08:41 PM
  #116
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Depending on who you want to bring in at centre, that could be a worse group than we had this year. Murray has put off rebuilding the second line every year he's been here, he needs to address it this offseason. If Selanne wants to come back, that's awesome but Murray needs to go and find somebody better than Koivu to centre the line.

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03-06-2012, 10:18 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Fallenity View Post
Hope so, I don't really see us trading for centers unless we package Vish+picks and someone is gullible enough to take it. Sign Koivu and maybe give Holland a chance on the lineup already this season if we don't have a chance anymore at getting to the PO's.
I'm sure this is what will happen.

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03-06-2012, 10:49 PM
  #118
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I don't get Palmieri at all. He seems like one of those guys who scores at the AHL level, but falls flat in the NHL. small sample size, but didn't impress me at all.

The only player I expect ready to play in the top 6 at all would be Etem... With Ryan back on left wing, Etem would have to adjust to left wing... but if we somehow land a second line center... Etem and Ryan seem like a good fit together.

still won't be surprised to see Koivu as our second line center next year.

and see Etem starting off on the third line with Holland, or our 2012 draft pick if we're lucky enough to get one of the good centermen.

DSP-Holland-Etem sounds like s decent third line... hugely inexperienced, but talented for sure.

Jason blake has no role on this team, not with Cogliano on the team. I think adding Penner + centerman, and retaining Hagman, is all this team needs to do to compete. Ellis isn't a terrible backup, but I think we could do better.

If we can trade Cogliano in a deal for a second line center.. (obviously we would have to add) I say keep Blake around if possible. he works in a bottom 6 role, and can fill in for injuries in the top 6 if absolutely necessary.

again, I think this team is dead in the water, without a an increase in budget.. The budget could have worked as is, but Murray made some horrible decisions, and didn't go after the right people.
Sorry, but no chance that's our third line next year. Blake won't be back. Cogs will stay. No way Murray gives up on him after one year, plus he has become a fixture on our PK. Ellis would be a fitting backup, unless we sign Fasth to a one-way deal. Hagman is a toss-up. He hasn't been great, but he gives it his all. He's slightly better than Blake because he can actually retain the puck, but his shot and passing ability have really decreased. Bonino should be our 3rd line center next year. It looks like BB really likes him there, and he's responsible and wins faceoffs

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03-06-2012, 10:53 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
I've really liked the strides Bonino has made this year and would have no problem with him being our full time 3rd lien center.

I really dislike Pelley though and feels he's just a waste of ice time. He's not overly physical, is not very reliable defensively and has 0 scoring touch.

I would bring back Koivu (can never have enough reliable faceoff centermen) as 2nd line center and potentially 3rd line center (that would bump Bonino to 4th line but that would mean we could role 4 killer lines).

I would offer a 1 year deal to either hagman or blake and whoever took it first gets the spot. I try to resign Brookbank too if he's willing to take an affordable contract and realize he may be fighting for time with a rookie (Schulz/Vaatanen)

Then I would look for a long term solution for our 2nd line. I can see Koivu useful for a few more years, but Holland hasn't done anything to make me believe he's the solution.
I also think Koivu will be back next year. Bonino should be our 3rd line center for sure, unless he surpasses Koivu on the depth chart. I don't see Holland making the club right out of camp unless he has a big turnaround. Pelley at first impressed me, but I don't see us bringing him back as our 4th line center. Maybe as a depth center, but we have a ton of cheap options for our 4th line that would do more than Pelley. Konopka is a prime candidate, but I don't think he'll leave the NY area. He does business in NY away from hockey and doesn't want to leave the northeast. Brookbank should be back for sure! He has been one of our most reliable Dmen all year long

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03-06-2012, 10:54 PM
  #120
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Depending on who you want to bring in at centre, that could be a worse group than we had this year. Murray has put off rebuilding the second line every year he's been here, he needs to address it this offseason. If Selanne wants to come back, that's awesome but Murray needs to go and find somebody better than Koivu to centre the line.
I don't like GMBM that much, but he's been handcuffed in this situation with Teemu coming back every year and wanting to play with Koivu means he hasn't really had a chance to rebuild the 2nd line yet.

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03-07-2012, 12:29 AM
  #121
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I don't like GMBM that much, but he's been handcuffed in this situation with Teemu coming back every year and wanting to play with Koivu means he hasn't really had a chance to rebuild the 2nd line yet.
Agreed, it's definitely handcuffed him. I just think it's finally time to move on and if Teemu comes back then he can slot in with whoever the new 2nd line centre is, as opposed to playing with Koivu and Blake/Beleskey/Hagman/insert random winger here.

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03-07-2012, 01:45 AM
  #122
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This next season must be the time we finally learn to live life without Teemu - even if he comes back. Teemu can't support us forever, we're going to have to be big boys and move on as a team.

I agree with most here - the second line needs help.

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03-07-2012, 02:43 AM
  #123
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This next season must be the time we finally learn to live life without Teemu - even if he comes back. Teemu can't support us forever, we're going to have to be big boys and move on as a team.

I agree with most here - the second line needs help.
The first line is the one who needs help:

ES points:

2nd line:
Selanne 34
Ryan 34
Koivu 27

1st line:
Perry 30
Getzlaf 26
Hagman 19


Points per 60min of ice time (even strenght):

1. Selanne 2.18
2. Koivu 1.98

3. Ryan 1.86
4. Bonino 1.63
5. Hagman 1.62
6. Cogliano 1.62
7. Perry 1.53
8. Beleskey 1.38
9. Getzlaf 1.36
10. Blake 1.20

I agree that a new 2nd line center would be nice, but many teams in the league would die for a 2nd line of Ryan-Koivu-Selanne.

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03-07-2012, 07:42 AM
  #124
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I'll gladly take the 2nd line back of Selanne and Koivu next year with one of our big 3 rookies with them

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03-07-2012, 11:30 AM
  #125
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Wouldn't mind signing Jokinen to a 2 or 3 year deal, depending on price. Would like to see Koivu re-sign for another year to give Holland more time.

I wouldn't mind Hagman back, but Blake coming back would be a waste IMO. He doesn't do anything on 4th line, and IMO we need at least one roster spot for the prospects to fight for (Palmeiri/Etem).

Penner-Getzlaf-Perry
Cogliano/prospect-Jokinen-Ryan
Cogliano/prosect-Koivu-Selanne
Beleskey-Bonino-DSP
Parros/Sexton

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