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Old
03-07-2012, 07:15 PM
  #151
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I would rather have even the very unimpressive Palmieri at 1st line LW than the guaranteed-useless Penner.

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03-07-2012, 07:19 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Who does he displace though? We have Cogliano, Bonino and DSP who right now would be the favorites to be the third line next season, along with multiple prospects (Holland, Etem, McMillan etc) who will be competing for a top 9 role.
Well apparently Boudreau likes Hagman on the 1st line with Getzlaf and Perry.

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03-07-2012, 07:22 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Well apparently Boudreau likes Hagman on the 1st line with Getzlaf and Perry.
That's because Hagman is the best option on the current roster to play with them. In reality he's a 25-30 point bottom 6 player.

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03-07-2012, 07:27 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by ShadowDuck View Post
That's a quote from Bobby Ryan, thought it was interesting and should be put here.
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed hearing that from him. It's entirely in line with what quite a few posters and me have expressed, and I think it's the perfect mindset for him, and I really can't agree with the concerns expressed elsewhere.

Getzlaf/Perry play their game. All they need is a secondary guy to play their game with them. It's pure luxury to have a potentially great individual player with those. Ryan, like many others, can only be a great secondary player with them, while he could be a very good primary player on a different line, and many less talented guys than Ryan can be almost equally good secondary players with the twins. This isn't about what Ryan wants. It's about realizing how we can possibly get the most out of the talent we have. That said, it's obvious that Ryan has to make more out of his talent on a line to be built around him. I think there's few people arguing that it's possible, but he definitely needs to step up further than he has, but I like to see him want that type of responsibility.

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03-07-2012, 07:36 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed hearing that from him. It's entirely in line with what quite a few posters and me have expressed, and I think it's the perfect mindset for him, and I really can't agree with the concerns expressed elsewhere.

Getzlaf/Perry play their game. All they need is a secondary guy to play their game with them. It's pure luxury to have a potentially great individual player with those. Ryan, like many others, can only be a great secondary player with them, while he could be a very good primary player on a different line, and many less talented guys than Ryan can be almost equally good secondary players with the twins. This isn't about what Ryan wants. It's about realizing how we can possibly get the most out of the talent we have. That said, it's obvious that Ryan has to make more out of his talent on a line to be built around him. I think there's few people arguing that it's possible, but he definitely needs to step up further than he has, but I like to see him want that type of responsibility.
It's way overblown, and somewhat misunderstood. And it's not the first one on AC either.

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03-07-2012, 07:45 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Zapp Brannigan View Post
It's way overblown, and somewhat misunderstood. And it's not the first one on AC either.
To be fair, I don't mean it in a condescending way. It's good to be offered different perspectives, and I find myself standing in for non-popular points of view regularly, as well. But in this case I absolutely have to disagree with the author.

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03-07-2012, 08:04 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
To be fair, I don't mean it in a condescending way. It's good to be offered different perspectives, and I find myself standing in for non-popular points of view regularly, as well. But in this case I absolutely have to disagree with the author.

They really reached in my opinion and took it wayyy out of context. Ryan said what Ducks fans on here have thought for a while. Once Selanne leaves we cant have all our eggs in one basket on a line, and Bobby is looking for the responsibility of anchoring a line of his own. He has played much better away from the twins this year and one would assume that would continue next season too.

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03-07-2012, 08:11 PM
  #158
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I'm somewhat happy Bobby said that because it's the first time, at least I think, that somebody affiliated with the organisation has made it known that we need a new 2nd line.

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03-07-2012, 08:13 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
That's because Hagman is the best option on the current roster to play with them. In reality he's a 25-30 point bottom 6 player.
I'm not so sure about that. Hagman's pt totals are lower because he is put on the bottom 6, but playing with Getz and Perry every night I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up 50-60pts. Usually in games that are tight he makes the difference. He has more stick handling and scoring ability then anyone on the bottom 6.

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03-07-2012, 08:32 PM
  #160
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Officially back on the I hope we lose all of our games from here out bandwagon.
The way I look at it is that if we lose 10 of the last 15 and end up with 78 points and Minn goes 8-7 and hops above us. Then we have Carolina, Toronto, NYI and Buffalo keep winning then we could easily have a #1-4 range pick which gets us a can't miss player in a deep draft.
It also gives us a small chance at getting the #1 pick.
Also If we had the 3-5 range pick we could trade a guy like Lydman and 3rd and move up to #2 or #3 and get Yakupov, Forsberg, Murray or Galchenyuk depending on who is taken at #1.

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03-07-2012, 08:36 PM
  #161
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What a stupid over reaction that article was.

Ryan was asked "what do you want next for your career?" I don't see how saying I want to be more then a complimentary player is a bad thing. I was very pleased with his comments in that article. Shocked someone could take his words there as something negative.

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03-07-2012, 09:28 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
I'm not so sure about that. Hagman's pt totals are lower because he is put on the bottom 6, but playing with Getz and Perry every night I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up 50-60pts. Usually in games that are tight he makes the difference. He has more stick handling and scoring ability then anyone on the bottom 6.
Hagman's career high is only 44 points. He's spent considerable time (I would guess at least 25 games) on the top two lines this season and outside of a patch of games in December has been ineffective in a scoring role.

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03-07-2012, 10:57 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by justheducks View Post
Officially back on the I hope we lose all of our games from here out bandwagon.
The way I look at it is that if we lose 10 of the last 15 and end up with 78 points and Minn goes 8-7 and hops above us. Then we have Carolina, Toronto, NYI and Buffalo keep winning then we could easily have a #1-4 range pick which gets us a can't miss player in a deep draft.
It also gives us a small chance at getting the #1 pick.
Also If we had the 3-5 range pick we could trade a guy like Lydman and 3rd and move up to #2 or #3 and get Yakupov, Forsberg, Murray or Galchenyuk depending on who is taken at #1.
I don't think Galchenyuk is a can't miss player. I've seen a lot of people using Malkin as a reason to disregard Galchenyuk's knee injury, but Geno's recovery is atypical of an injury of that sort. I hope Murray looks elsewhere if we're picking in the top 5.

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03-07-2012, 11:43 PM
  #164
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That's flourishing?
That was my first thought as well, god help us when he's in a slump

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03-07-2012, 11:44 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
To be fair, I don't mean it in a condescending way. It's good to be offered different perspectives, and I find myself standing in for non-popular points of view regularly, as well. But in this case I absolutely have to disagree with the author.
Daniel from AC has an axe to grind with Bobby for some reason, every post he has ever made includes some put down on Ryan, sometimes in posts that have nothing to do with Ryan.

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03-08-2012, 12:28 AM
  #166
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What a stupid over reaction that article was.

Ryan was asked "what do you want next for your career?" I don't see how saying I want to be more then a complimentary player is a bad thing. I was very pleased with his comments in that article. Shocked someone could take his words there as something negative.
Good players want to be the man; the go-to guy for their line. The one with the puck on his stick. Ryan understands that he won't be that guy on a line with Getzlaf and Perry(and props to him for recognizing that, and not implying he's entitled to it over them). I'd be disappointed if he wanted anything less than that for himself, and for the team.

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03-08-2012, 01:52 AM
  #167
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There is no way you can bring back the same core of the team they're not making the playoffs, you cannot allow them to justify their pathetic play for 3 months, the bottom line is if they even played mediocre, they'd be solidly in a playoff spot.

You've got to change out the core, I would seriously look at moving out one of the RPG and trying to sign Parise, a KNOWN high character HARD WORKER. this team has to many skilled players who dont play hard nearly enough. You cannot let this group be together another season, and you cannot rely on Koivu/Selanne to be consistent 2nd liners unless you will put a strong player on the line

It's also time for Palmieri to sink or swim, let's move out some known mediocrity, and take a chance on something that could be good he has not gotten a real chance yet they need to call him up the last 10 games and let him play


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Old
03-08-2012, 02:44 AM
  #168
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If you move out Ryan for example, you'd then be spending 7m+ on each top line player, or around 22m of a budget of around 56m I think? Yikes.

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03-08-2012, 02:47 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
It doesn't leave a spot, unless Hagman plays in the top 6 or the 4th line.Here is approximately what we have for next season:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
? ($0.000m) / Ryan Getzlaf ($5.325m) / Corey Perry ($5.325m)
Palmieri/Etem ($1.025m) / ? ($0.000m) / Bobby Ryan ($5.100m)
Andrew Cogliano ($2.390m) / Nick Bonino ($0.693m) / Devante Smith-Pelly ($0.870m)
Matt Beleskey ($0.737m) / ? ($0.000m) / ? ($0.000m)
Dan Sexton ($0.550m)

DEFENSEMEN
Lubomir Visnovsky ($5.600m) / Francois Beauchemin ($3.500m)
Toni Lydman ($3.000m) / Luca Sbisa ($2.175m)
Cam Fowler ($1.400m) / Vatanen/Schultz ($1.325m)
Nate Guenin ($0.525m)

GOALTENDERS
Jonas Hiller ($4.500m) / ? ($0.000m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $44,040,500; BONUSES: $1,575,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $20,259,500

That's using cap hit, not actual salary so the actual salaries will likely be slightly off, Bonino will also receive a small raise. But assuming a $56M budget, that gives us $12M for a backup goalie, two fourth liners, a first line LW and a second line centre. The fourth liners and backup should come to no more than $3M which gives Murray approximately $9M for a first line LW and second line C.
This is exactly why I think re-signing Hagman would be a mistake. I love his versitility, but I don't like him as the answer to our top line. Unless Koivu and Selanne don't return, I see no place for Hagman. I also think your numbers are more off then you think...estimated

(__)-Getzlaf(6.125)-Perry(4.875)
Prospect(.900)-(__)-Ryan(5.562)
Cogliano(2.35)-Bonino(.700)-DSP(.760)
Beleskey(.850)-(__)-(__)
Sexton(.550)

Beauchemin(3.5)-Fowler(.900)
Sbisa(2.0)-Visnovsky(3.0)
Lydman(3.0)-Prospect(.900)
(__)

Hiller(4.5)
JDD(.625)

total: 41.1 million

That leaves 15 million (assuming budget is 56 million) to add: 1st line LW, 2nd line center, 2 4th liners, and another backup goalie. IMO Murray should do everything in his power to obtain a 2nd line center. Trade, FA, I don't care. See it done. I honestly think he can spend about 5 million or so on a 2nd line center and still be fine, maybe a little more.

I'd re-sign Koivu, add another center, and move Bonino to 4th line (which allows us to roll 4 lines as well). If Selanne is wanting to return, give him what you can.

(UFA)(2.0)-Getzlaf(6.125)-Perry(4.875)
Prospect(.900)-UFA/Trade(5.0)-Ryan(5.562)
Cogliano(2.35)-Koivu(2.0)-Selanne(3.5)
Beleskey(.850)-Bonino(.700)-DSP(.760)
Sexton(.550),UFA(.650)

Beauchemin(3.5)-Fowler(.900)
Sbisa(2.0)-Visnovsky(3.0)
Lydman(3.0)-Prospect(.900)
UFA(.600)

Hiller(4.5)
UFA(.850)
JDD(.625)-Will have to be in minors, thanks Murray...

Total: 55.7 million

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03-08-2012, 02:52 AM
  #170
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I would rather have even the very unimpressive Palmieri at 1st line LW than the guaranteed-useless Penner.
I don't see how it's guaranteed. He's had a bad year, horrible in fact. Given problems with his personal life and past success with those two, I'd be somewhat interested in doing it. It's not that I don't care for Hagman, but I do think he limits that top line. Plus, if he's not there I see no other spot for him. Now I will say that I think giving Penner anything more then a 1 year deal would completely stupid. I'd go 1 year 2 million, if other needs were addressed first (2nd line center). I really want to see BB give DSP a shot with the top guys though. If he's able to click with them, the other needs become so much easier to address. More money could be used on the 2nd line center.

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03-08-2012, 03:00 AM
  #171
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If you move out Ryan for example, you'd then be spending 7m+ on each top line player, or around 22m of a budget of around 56m I think? Yikes.
We're already going to be doing it anyways, if we can trade Ryan for two good, younger players that are somewhat cost controlled, my overall point is the identity of the core has to be changed

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03-08-2012, 03:26 AM
  #172
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+1000

Hagman is like a cheap swiss army knife. You can fit him anywhere, and he's been very good on the PK. Don't know why anyone would want pancake boy over Hagman.
Except his blade has been used and used and isn't sharp anymore. He sells for 5 bucks on ebay and is pretty much only good for opening wine bottles (and that's not easy).

Hagman is near the end of his career. He works hard, but he doesn't produce. In a 4th line role, sure, he'd be money. Not as a top 3 lines guy though

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03-08-2012, 03:29 AM
  #173
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There is no way you can bring back the same core of the team they're not making the playoffs, you cannot allow them to justify their pathetic play for 3 months, the bottom line is if they even played mediocre, they'd be solidly in a playoff spot.

You've got to change out the core, I would seriously look at moving out one of the RPG and trying to sign Parise, a KNOWN high character HARD WORKER. this team has to many skilled players who dont play hard nearly enough. You cannot let this group be together another season, and you cannot rely on Koivu/Selanne to be consistent 2nd liners unless you will put a strong player on the line
This would also be why Parise isn't going to sign with us.

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03-08-2012, 03:54 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
I don't see how it's guaranteed. He's had a bad year, horrible in fact. Given problems with his personal life and past success with those two, I'd be somewhat interested in doing it. It's not that I don't care for Hagman, but I do think he limits that top line. Plus, if he's not there I see no other spot for him. Now I will say that I think giving Penner anything more then a 1 year deal would completely stupid. I'd go 1 year 2 million, if other needs were addressed first (2nd line center). I really want to see BB give DSP a shot with the top guys though. If he's able to click with them, the other needs become so much easier to address. More money could be used on the 2nd line center.
This would be awesome if it works out. DSP has much similarity with Penner but he works harder. Only thing I'm concerned is his hockey IQ since Getzlaf and Perry can be creative in the offensive zone, can DSP keep up or will he ruin some opportunities with dumb decisions? Maybe, maybe not. I think he could be the work horse of the 1st line getting the puck to Getzlaf or Perry and going for the net to shove it in.

DSP-Getzlaf-Perry
X-X-Ryan
Cogliano-Bonino-X
Beleskey-X-X
X

Still quite a lot of question marks on that offence. Some of them will be filled with resignings and prospect(s) I think. Hagman should be back for 4th line and maybe use O'Marra for center? 3rd line could use a big body too.

If all would go well, Bonino could center the 2nd line and then resign Koivu and Selänne for 3rd line. They would still need one left winger.

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03-08-2012, 05:09 AM
  #175
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The only way this team can compete next season is if Koivu and Selanne resign. The only worthwhile UFA center out there is Jokinen. There's no way they could replace Selanne's production through free agency or with prospects.

Hagman(1.5)-Getzlaf-Perry
Ryan-Jokinen(5.0)-Selanne(4.0) (someone needs to take the playmaker role)
Cogliano-Koivu(2.5)-Palmieri
Beleskey-Bonino-DSP

Beauchemin-Fowler
Sbisa-Visnovsky
Lydman-Vatanen

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