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Old
03-04-2012, 08:23 PM
  #1
majormet
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Blues Logic

I just looked up at the standings and the St Louis Blues are 2 points away from having the best record in the NHL!!!!!!! I don't think this team is better on paper than the Islanders, Blues always are my 2nd favorite team thanks to Garry Unger in the 1970 and having the best uniform in the NHL back in the day, but..... 3rd best in the NHL...

So my question is what if we hired Ken Hitchcock, I think we could have had him, after his Columbus failure he was blacklisted in the NHL..... The Blues have been bad for years like us, and they are building their team internally like us, kind of similar without a franchise players. They also dealt their #1 pick overall in Eric Johnson and looked to be further rebuilding.

Seeing the Blues success makes me believe that if the Isles brought in a viable experience head coach like MacTavish we would be battling for 6th in the Eastern Conference.

Having Capuano as a coach has lost us at least 10 points, and probably having a good coach would gain us 5 points, so I am thinking 15 point swing factor, which changes our season.

I blame Capuano mainly for not getting much out of this team from the start of games. He does not have them prepared. Also, his poor use of timeouts and emptying the net. Not to mention failure to coach the players that need more coaching like Okposo, Bailey, MacDonald, Grabner and Comeau.

We have 3 scorers in the top 25 and our defense has held it's own most of the season.

I look at the Blues and am very jealous of their success.

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03-04-2012, 08:32 PM
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OrangeZebra
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Jaroslav Halak+Brian Elliot> Isles entire defense and goalies

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03-04-2012, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OrangeZebra View Post
Jaroslav Halak+Brian Elliot> Isles entire defense and goalies
Our goalies have stolen many games for us too. Granted the Blues goalies are under 2 and Nabby and Montoya are in the 2's, there have been many games where we have been kept off the scoreboard even though our goalies have been stellar.

St Louis has only 2 forwards on their team with over 30 points and no one over 50 points, yet they win games.

We would have secondary scoring if we had a coach who can manage offensive players.

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03-04-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by majormet View Post
Our goalies have stolen many games for us too. Granted the Blues goalies are under 2 and Nabby and Montoya are in the 2's, there have been many games where we have been kept off the scoreboard even though our goalies have been stellar.

St Louis has only 2 forwards on their team with over 30 points and no one over 50 points, yet they win games.

We would have secondary scoring if we had a coach who can manage offensive players.
Their vets are actually good vets who can still provide secondary scoring/leadership. Plus, their D is very underrated, Pietrangelo is going to be a Top 10-15 Dman imo

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03-04-2012, 08:43 PM
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19NYSports91
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This is kind of weird that you brought this up. I was telling my friend a couple of days ago, that the Blues have had talented players the past couple of years and coaching can really make a difference. Hitchcock has been awesome for them this year and the Blue finally took the next step. If the Islanders want to take the next step they NEED to hire a legit NHL coach. I'm still very upset that the Leafs got Carlyle. I wanted Carlyle so bad!

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03-04-2012, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
This is kind of weird that you brought this up. I was telling my friend a couple of days ago, that the Blues have had talented players the past couple of years and coaching can really make a difference. Hitchcock has been awesome for them this year and the Blue finally took the next step. If the Islanders want to take the next step they NEED to hire a legit NHL coach. I'm still very upset that the Leafs got Carlyle. I wanted Carlyle so bad!
I liked Carlyle too and an established NHL coach would do us well but I think we can do okay with an up and comer also. Brent Thompson over at the Bridge has impressed me greatly, and I work with a bunch of people up in Toronto who are singing the praises of Dallas Eakins. I like Capuano but for some reason he can't take this team over the hump.

Like a couple of you as well, I was wondering what the Blues have that we don't.

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03-04-2012, 09:08 PM
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No question in my mind the dif between Hitch and Cappy is huge. Hitch is exactly the kind of coach the Isles need.

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03-04-2012, 09:26 PM
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A Pointed Stick
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Hitch didn't do much for Columbus. Better than Cap though. I' d be happy with anyone decent at this point.

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03-05-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Hitch didn't do much for Columbus. Better than Cap though. I' d be happy with anyone decent at this point.
Their only playoff series in history? It was sad sack before he got there, pushed that sad sack into the playoffs, then turned back into a sad sack not too long thereafter.

Coach, players, or GM on that one? Hmmm...

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03-05-2012, 04:04 PM
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Their only playoff series in history? It was sad sack before he got there, pushed that sad sack into the playoffs, then turned back into a sad sack not too long thereafter.

Coach, players, or GM on that one? Hmmm...
they blamed Hitch for not letting the young players (filatov, brassard) "develop" - not unlike Nolan didn't let Tambellini develop.

Maybe it wasn't the coach's fault?!

---
I agree about Hitch being exactly what the NYI team needs. Especially a young team with underachieving players, players who are really bad defensively - that can be (largely) taught.

The top25 scorers is a bit of a red herring in this awful season....it means NOTHING. THE NYR have NOBODY as a top scorer. Neither did Boston last year or STL this year.

The only reason the NYI have those scorers is because of Tavares.

But Tavares has shown more desire and ability WITHOUT the puck, and on the back-check that with the right coach and defensive system, the team will have a LOT MORE SUCCESS.

Mind you, we still need TWO top six dmen and TWO NHL top 9 forwards....but a coach and a defense-first system means A GREAT DEAL to a team like the NYI.

He'd probably bench Grabs and make it uncomfortable for a lot of players, even players with "good stats" - but I think the impact on the W-L would more than off-set the statistical output of some players.

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03-05-2012, 04:07 PM
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A Pointed Stick
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Their only playoff series in history? It was sad sack before he got there, pushed that sad sack into the playoffs, then turned back into a sad sack not too long thereafter.

Coach, players, or GM on that one? Hmmm...
He lost the team regardless of the other variables. I just think we can do better than him or Cap.

I wonder of Pat Quinn will work for food stamps?

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03-05-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
He lost the team regardless of the other variables. I just think we can do better than him or Cap.

I wonder of Pat Quinn will work for food stamps?


this is the funiest thing ive seen all day. especially if your an Isles fan....Its also sad...


Get a REAL head Coach in here....Thats a start....

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03-05-2012, 05:03 PM
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blitzkriegs
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
He lost the team regardless of the other variables. I just think we can do better than him or Cap.

I wonder of Pat Quinn will work for food stamps?
He went from coaching very good/great teams in DAL (SC), very good teams in PHI, to a perennial disaster in CLB. Now he's taken a team with a lot of the right pieces, w/o a legit coach and moving them into one of the best in the league.

CLB still sits as a disaster. Hitch shoulders the blame, but when the organization is rotten (players/mgmt) such as CLB its a very different context vs. his DAL/PHI performance.

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03-05-2012, 06:40 PM
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hitchcock would have been the perfect coach for the islanders

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03-05-2012, 07:53 PM
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I understand what you see in the Blues and you think Hitch could do that for the Isles, but what the Blues have is something the Isles don't, and that's offensive depth. I've watched a lot of Isles games outside of the one's where they play the Rangers, and this team is a 2nd line away from being a playoff team. The Blues have guys like Perron, Steen and McDonald that haven't played a lot of the season due to injuries and they prorate to mid 40's in points if they had full, or near full seasons.

Neilson is ideally, one of the best, 3rd line centers in the league. He can fill that #2 line role on a playoff team, but he needs a better winger than a down year Grabner, as well as a down year Okposo. Is Strome the answer to that next season? Kabanov? Nino? I'm not sure, but this team needs another top 6 forward on their roster next season to think about 6th to 8th in the East.

Also, defense needs to be upgraded, but I think the youth in the system (De Haan, Ness, Donovan) will help with that a lot more than going after a big free agent defender. Having Streit stay with this team longer than next season will help these players develop, while on the Islander or in Bridgeport. Don't rush these guys, like they did in the past, and I can see them making an impact. This team could have a gluttony of puck movers which are the hottest commodity in the NHL. I still think they need a more physical guy after Hamonic, as the guys listed above are more puck movers and offensive than bigger, defensive minded players.

I know Isles fans have heard it a lot, but they really need to stay the course, make smart FA signings of players that want to PLAY on the Island, and go from there. I'm looking forward to having the Islanders-Rangers rivalry mean more than just bragging rights for the night or the season series.

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Old
03-05-2012, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majormet View Post
I just looked up at the standings and the St Louis Blues are 2 points away from having the best record in the NHL!!!!!!! I don't think this team is better on paper than the Islanders, Blues always are my 2nd favorite team thanks to Garry Unger in the 1970 and having the best uniform in the NHL back in the day, but..... 3rd best in the NHL...

So my question is what if we hired Ken Hitchcock, I think we could have had him, after his Columbus failure he was blacklisted in the NHL..... The Blues have been bad for years like us, and they are building their team internally like us, kind of similar without a franchise players. They also dealt their #1 pick overall in Eric Johnson and looked to be further rebuilding.

Seeing the Blues success makes me believe that if the Isles brought in a viable experience head coach like MacTavish we would be battling for 6th in the Eastern Conference.

Having Capuano as a coach has lost us at least 10 points, and probably having a good coach would gain us 5 points, so I am thinking 15 point swing factor, which changes our season.

I blame Capuano mainly for not getting much out of this team from the start of games. He does not have them prepared. Also, his poor use of timeouts and emptying the net. Not to mention failure to coach the players that need more coaching like Okposo, Bailey, MacDonald, Grabner and Comeau.

We have 3 scorers in the top 25 and our defense has held it's own most of the season.

I look at the Blues and am very jealous of their success.

It's worth noting that we have only one defenseman with more than 15 points this year.

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03-05-2012, 08:50 PM
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Don't know much about Eakins, but Thompson would be a good fit and is up Garth's alley. I still think Cappy is here next year despite that fact that I don't want him nor do I think he's good.

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03-05-2012, 09:28 PM
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A Pointed Stick
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Originally Posted by majormet View Post
...our defense has held it's own most of the season.
Are you talking about the Islanders? Because our defense is one of the worst in the league. Between getting out muscled, poor transition through the neutral zone, struggling to start even a standard breakout, can't clear the puck to save it's life, can't hit the net from the points, etc., etc., etc., I don't know how you say that statement without holding a lightening rod while wearing asbestos union shorts.

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03-05-2012, 10:17 PM
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majormet
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Are you talking about the Islanders? Because our defense is one of the worst in the league. Between getting out muscled, poor transition through the neutral zone, struggling to start even a standard breakout, can't clear the puck to save it's life, can't hit the net from the points, etc., etc., etc., I don't know how you say that statement without holding a lightening rod while wearing asbestos union shorts.
I do think our defense has not been as bad as in the past, there are no guys like Gervais, Witt, Meyer etc to kick around.

I will concur that the defense has only contributed to the offense more in recent time. MacDonald has been picking up points now and Streit has gotten better as the season progressed, not to mention Hamonic has been involved since coming back. The Blues dmen contribute more offensively.

But if you look around the league there are a lot of teams that are just as bad and possibly worse than us defensively as illustrated in the goal against in the league.

In our own conference, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Ottawa and Carolina are worse defensively than us.

I blame Jurcina for being a huge black hole offensively this year, so much focus on Okposo and Grabner, but this guy was resigned and has stunk up the joint and has an abysmal plus/minus.

Staios and Eaton have held their own considering they are both washed up. Reese was good before getting hurt, still a fan of his.

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03-05-2012, 10:20 PM
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It's worth noting that we have only one defenseman with more than 15 points this year.
Hamonic and MacDonald both lost about 10 games this year, and have played hurt at various stages. MacDonald ironically has racked up most of his point in the past 2 weeks, his health was probably not good most of the year after the hip surgery and he has been playing monstrously of late.

Jurcina is the goat this season when you think about his size and his shot, he had 2 goals in one game last year and this year has just 2 goals and 6 assists and is on the ice for half the goals it seems.

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03-06-2012, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by majormet View Post
Hamonic and MacDonald both lost about 10 games this year, and have played hurt at various stages. MacDonald ironically has racked up most of his point in the past 2 weeks, his health was probably not good most of the year after the hip surgery and he has been playing monstrously of late.

Jurcina is the goat this season when you think about his size and his shot, he had 2 goals in one game last year and this year has just 2 goals and 6 assists and is on the ice for half the goals it seems.
MacDonald has been playing "monstrously?" Really? Did you watch him get absolutely roasted in Boston?

He's definitely been the biggest disappointment for me this season (except for Comeau I guess.)

There's definitely a lot to be said for Hitchcock being a wayyyyyyyy better coach than Capuano. The Isles, as a team with forward who by and large don't play defensively, and almost no contributing veterans, need a strong coach more than anyone.

That said, I don't think that it's fair to compare the Isles and Blues rosters. St. Louis is significantly better than us in just about every phase of the game.

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Old
03-06-2012, 10:25 AM
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Scrappy group of forwards with the right veterans, 3 very good d-men (Shatt, Pietrangelo, Jackman), solid goaltending. We need to get WAY more scrappy and a couple more solid d-men.

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Old
03-06-2012, 10:21 PM
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Theyre certainly better than us. They have great defenseman.

I love Hamonic, but Ill take Pietrangelo over him. Id without a doubt take Shattenkirk over Streit. Ill take Jackman over MacDonald due to a physical edge. Ill Take each of Polak, Colaiacovo, and Russel over each of Eaton, Juricia, Staios, Reease, etc.

Id take Elliot or halak this season over any of our goalies.

They also have a ton of depth. Weve had guys like Matt Martin i lov ehim but hes a 4th liner)and Brian Rolston on out 3rd all year. Weve had Grabs and KO underachievign offensively on the 2nd, and weve had nothing good come out fo the 4th line in Reasoner and Pandolfo

In the same light, the Blues have guys liek Arnott and Berglund and Sobotkain the bottom 6 and have guys like Dagostini and Steen and Langenbrunner all injured. Thats great depth fi ive ever seen it really

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03-07-2012, 12:28 AM
  #24
A Pointed Stick
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Originally Posted by majormet View Post
I do think our defense has not been as bad as in the past, there are no guys like Gervais, Witt, Meyer etc to kick around.

I will concur that the defense has only contributed to the offense more in recent time. MacDonald has been picking up points now and Streit has gotten better as the season progressed, not to mention Hamonic has been involved since coming back. The Blues dmen contribute more offensively.

But if you look around the league there are a lot of teams that are just as bad and possibly worse than us defensively as illustrated in the goal against in the league.

In our own conference, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Ottawa and Carolina are worse defensively than us.

I blame Jurcina for being a huge black hole offensively this year, so much focus on Okposo and Grabner, but this guy was resigned and has stunk up the joint and has an abysmal plus/minus.

Staios and Eaton have held their own considering they are both washed up. Reese was good before getting hurt, still a fan of his.
Argh. You are furiously putting lipstick on a warthogs ass.

We currently have no real 1st pair players.
We have three second pair in Hamonic, Streit, and MacDonald.
We have a whole range of third and worse.

Almost everyone plays one level above their actual abilities. Some like Jurcina have almost no hockey sense. I give you points for trying to be positive about the whole thing, but oh brother, they suck.

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03-07-2012, 06:37 AM
  #25
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The Blues have a lot more to work with than we do.

Basta.

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