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Old
05-24-2012, 12:38 PM
  #551
mirimon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
So adding the 6.9M to 69M, that's 75.9M they can use in the Off Season. So 75,900,000 - 66,525,571 = 9,374,429. So if the resign Carle for say 4.8M. That would give them 4.5M more to work with. So that's a good educated guess of the Flyers off season Cap picture.
The cap space number is more relevant than the cap payroll I believe. These numbers are a bit wonky though. I'm not at all sure that the Schenn number is correct.

Still, we should be able to re-sign Voracek, make a run for Suter if we can (or re-sign Carle), and sign a solid 4th line center if we want to.


Last edited by mirimon: 05-24-2012 at 12:41 PM. Reason: rephrasing
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05-24-2012, 12:45 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
The cap space number is more relevant than the cap payroll I believe. These numbers are a bit wonky though. I'm not at all sure that the Schenn number is correct.

Still, we should be able to re-sign Voracek, make a run for Suter if we can (or re-sign Carle), and sign a solid 4th line center if we want to.
Your never 100% sure when it comes to the CBA or the NHL salary Cap. I've spent a lot of time studying it and learning it. So I think that although the calculations that were done today may not be to the penny. It's in the ballpark.

The main reason for doing it is showing the difference between the in season and off season cap. And how some of the fantasy roster that have the Flyers signing both Suter and Parise will be difficult to do.

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05-24-2012, 01:22 PM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
From what I can get, this would be our off season cap situation (using the numbers we've had so far in the thread and inserting a somewhat realistic raise to Voracek and a cap set at 69m). Add in the 6.9m overage that is allowed and it's not that bad.



CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m) / Brayden Schenn ($1.404m) / Jakub Voracek ($3.250m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.166m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.521m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Harry Zolnierczyk ($0.486m) / Ben Holmstrom ($0.053m)
Tom Sestito ($0.244m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Andreas Lilja ($0.738m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.478m) / Brandon Manning ($0.039m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.603m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,525,571; BONUSES: $1,300,000
CAP SPACE (29-man roster): $3,772,429
If this is the scenario or at least close to it, we will have a good amount to sign Suter and a 4th line center. I have no doubt in my mind, along with every other team in the NHL that we will be after him. We just hold somewhat of an advantage over some teams because of our willingness to give out long term contracts(Suter is looking for). Homer also is not against being aggressive and trading for his rights. I feel like we can make a big splash this year on our defense, the same way we did on our offense last year.

Sign Suter 6-6.5 million because of the front loaded long term deal and a 4th line center for around 1-1.4 and you have about 2-3 million in wiggle room for the 10% over limit.

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05-24-2012, 03:04 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
But the Off Season is very tight. Especially once they re-sign Carle.
You shut your mouth with that nonsense!!!


With no trades, im looking at you JvR, it's pretty obvious IMO that it's going to be either Carle or Suter with 0 chance at Parise. I'm preparing myself for resigning Carle. :/

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05-24-2012, 03:38 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
You shut your mouth with that nonsense!!!


With no trades, im looking at you JvR, it's pretty obvious IMO that it's going to be either Carle or Suter with 0 chance at Parise. I'm preparing myself for resigning Carle. :/
I just don't want both Suter and Carle. If they're going to go after, and hopefully get Suter. Then I want them to walk away from Carle. But from what I'm hearing, it's just a formality of when they can sign Carle. So we'll see how accurate that info is. And I don't have any inside info. Taken from public sources.

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05-24-2012, 04:19 PM
  #556
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Someone said summer cap?
That's my kind of thing.

Green = RFA qualifying offers multiplied by the percentage of time they spent on the roster during 2011-12
Blue = two-way contracts multiplied by the percentage of time they spent on the roster during 2011-12

Scott Hartnell ($4,200,000) / Claude Giroux ($3,750,000) / Daniel Brière ($6,500,000) = [$14,450,000]
James Van Riemsdyk ($4,500,000) / Sean Couturier ($1,375,000) / Jakub Voracek ($2,250,000) = [$8,125,000]
Wayne Simmonds ($1,750,000) / Maxime Talbot ($1,750,000) / Matt Read ($900,000) = [$4,400,000]
Jody Shelley ($1,100,000) = [$1,100,000]
Zac Rinaldo ($520,900) / Brayden Schenn ($2,773,784) / Eric Wellwood ($166,162) = [$3,460,846]
Ben Holmstrom ($42,514) / Tom Sestito ($268,162) / Harrison Zolnierczyk ($388,784) = [$699,460]
= [$32,235,306]

Kimmo Timonen ($6,333,333) / Chris Pronger ($4,921,429) = [$11,254,762]
Braydon Coburn ($4,500,000) / Andrej Meszaros ($4,000,000) = [$8,500,000]
Nicklas Grossmann ($3,500,000) / Andreas Lilja ($737,500) = [$4,237,500]
Matt Walker ($1,700,000) / Oskars Bartulis ($600,000) = [$2,300,000]
Erik Gustafsson ($603,243) / Brandon Manning ($38,918) = [$642,161]
Marc-André Bourdon ($386,939) = [$386,939]
= [$27,321,362]

Ilya Bryzgalov ($5,666,667) / Sergei Bobrovsky ($1,750,000)
= [$7,416,667]

= [$66,973,335]

Upper Limit: ~$79,200,000 (~$72,000,000 * 110%)
Salary: $66,973,335
Summer Cap Space: ~$12,226,665

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Old
05-24-2012, 04:30 PM
  #557
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Brayden Schenn hit is a little lower because of those unattainable bonuses he missed once he missed a NHL game. He is at 1,403,608 according to cap geek because of this. Your numbers are almost the same as Mirimon but he choose to extend Voracek instead of qualifying him. But they are pretty much the same. Seems like they will have a good amount of change to work with, just not as much as we all hoped

Some of your numbers are different from what cap geek has listed as their calculations. Harry Z and some others are slightly different. This is getting all too confusing.

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05-24-2012, 04:38 PM
  #558
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Brayden Schenn hit is a little lower because of those unattainable bonuses he missed once he missed a NHL game. He is at 1,403,608 according to cap geek because of this. Your numbers are almost the same as Mirimon but he choose to extend Voracek instead of qualifying him. But they are pretty much the same. Seems like they will have a good amount of change to work with, just not as much as we all hoped

Some of your numbers are different from what cap geek has listed as their calculations. Harry Z and some others are slightly different. This is getting all too confusing.
Schenn's bonuses count because he will still be able to achieve them next season.
The summer cap is a calculation of Averaged Club Salary from July 1 until the end of training camp, so it's a new league year, thus all of his bonuses are achievable again.
And yes, bonuses are counted, not just base salary:
Quote:
(5) For any Player under a Two-Way SPC, the NHL portion of the SPC will be counted at a rate reflective of the Player's time on an NHL Roster (including days on Injured Reserve, Injured Non Roster and Non Roster status) the prior League Year so that, for example, a Player who spent forty-six (46) days on an NHL Roster (including days on Injured Reserve, Injured Non Roster and Non Roster status) in a 184-day regular season, and has a Two-Way SPC for $500,000 (NHL) / $50,000 (AHL), the portion of his NHL Salary and Bonuses that will count for off-season accounting purposes will be 46/184 x $500,000 = $125,000
As for Rinaldo, the calculation for his hit during the summer is $544,444 * (177/185) = $520,900.
This is explained in the quote from the CBA above ("For any Player under a Two-Way SPC, the NHL portion of the SPC will be counted at a rate reflective of the Player's time on an NHL Roster").

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05-24-2012, 04:44 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Schenn's bonuses count because he will still be able to achieve them next season.
The summer cap is a calculation of Averaged Club Salary from July 1 until the end of training camp, so it's a new league year, thus all of his bonuses are achievable again.
And yes, bonuses are counted, not just base salary:


As for Rinaldo, the calculation for his hit during the summer is $544,444 * (177/185) = $520,900.
This is explained in the quote from the CBA above ("For any Player under a Two-Way SPC, the NHL portion of the SPC will be counted at a rate reflective of the Player's time on an NHL Roster").
Okay thanks for clarifying the info on Schenn.

With the likes of Harry Z though you have him at 388,784, but cap geek has him at 486,486. He has 100/185 days on the roster for the Flyers. According to cap geek also MAB should be about 100k more. Am I missing something here?

Someone else early explained it to me and now you have some different numbers then what we all came up with(schenn is understandable because we weren't too sure about him) I understand the calculations for players on two way contracts, but not understanding how we all got two different numbers for the same players.

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05-24-2012, 04:48 PM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Schenn's bonuses count because he will still be able to achieve them next season.
The summer cap is a calculation of Averaged Club Salary from July 1 until the end of training camp, so it's a new league year, thus all of his bonuses are achievable again.
And yes, bonuses are counted, not just base salary:


As for Rinaldo, the calculation for his hit during the summer is $544,444 * (177/185) = $520,900.
This is explained in the quote from the CBA above ("For any Player under a Two-Way SPC, the NHL portion of the SPC will be counted at a rate reflective of the Player's time on an NHL Roster").
Your expecting the Upper Limit to be 72M next Season?

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05-24-2012, 04:59 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
Okay thanks for clarifying the info on Schenn.

With the likes of Harry Z though you have him at 388,784, but cap geek has him at 486,486. He has 100/185 days on the roster for the Flyers. According to cap geek also MAB should be about 100k more. Am I missing something here?

Someone else early explained it to me and now you have some different numbers then what we all came up with(schenn is understandable because we weren't too sure about him) I understand the calculations for players on two way contracts, but not understanding how we all got two different numbers for the same players.
Oh whoops, I mixed up Rinaldo with Harry Z for some reason while answering you.
Sorry about that.

Zolnierczyk is an RFA, so it's his qualifying offer * the amount of time he spent on the roster.
His qualifying offer is $719,250 ($775,000 - $90,000 = $685,000 * 105% = $719,250).
$719,250 * (100/185) = $388,784.

Bourdon is also an RFA, so it works the same way.
His qualifying offer is $708,750 ($762,500 - $87,500 = $675,000 * 105% = $708,750).
$708,750 * (101/185) = $386,939.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
Your expecting the Upper Limit to be 72M next Season?
Yes.
The $69m reported is without the 5% escalator that the NHLPA has always voted to activate.
$69,000,000 * 105% = $72,450,000.

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05-24-2012, 05:03 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Oh whoops, I mixed up Rinaldo with Harry Z for some reason while answering you.
Sorry about that.

Zolnierczyk is an RFA, so it's his qualifying offer * the amount of time he spent on the roster.
His qualifying offer is $719,250 ($775,000 - $90,000 = $685,000 * 105% = $719,250).
$719,250 * (100/185) = $388,784.

Bourdon is also an RFA, so it works the same way.
His qualifying offer is $708,750 ($762,500 - $87,500 = $675,000 * 105% = $708,750).
$708,750 * (101/185) = $386,939.

Yes.
The $69m reported is without the 5% escalator that the NHLPA has always voted to activate.
$69,000,000 * 105% = $72,450,000.
Ahh I see! Thank you

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05-24-2012, 05:03 PM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Oh whoops, I mixed up Rinaldo with Harry Z for some reason while answering you.
Sorry about that.

Zolnierczyk is an RFA, so it's his qualifying offer * the amount of time he spent on the roster.
His qualifying offer is $719,250 ($775,000 - $90,000 = $685,000 * 105% = $719,250).
$719,250 * (100/185) = $388,784.

Bourdon is also an RFA, so it works the same way.
His qualifying offer is $708,750 ($762,500 - $87,500 = $675,000 * 105% = $708,750).
$708,750 * (101/185) = $386,939.

Yes.
The $69m reported is without the 5% escalator that the NHLPA has always voted to activate.
$69,000,000 * 105% = $72,450,000.
I hope your right that it's going to be that high. But every report I've seen on Cap speculation is saying it is expected to be 69M. Thanks for clearing up the confusion on Schenn. He was the one guy I was unsure of.

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05-24-2012, 05:11 PM
  #564
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Originally Posted by VanSciver View Post
I hope your right that it's going to be that high. But every report I've seen on Cap speculation is saying it is expected to be 69M. Thanks for clearing up the confusion on Schenn. He was the one guy I was unsure of.
Quote:
29. Mentioned on Hotstove that the Salary Cap will be in the neighbourhood of $69 million next season ($72 if the NHLPA uses its right to escalate by five per cent as it always has). With the CBA ending Sept. 15, curious to see how teams handle this, because they expect some degree of shrinkage after free agency.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html

Even with the CBA expiring, one would think that the PA would still activate the escalator since it's purpose is to offset escrow by adding more potential money to the market.
Even if the upper limit is lowered, they probably want that extra 5%.

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05-24-2012, 05:13 PM
  #565
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From that article on the other thread on both Parise and Suter wanting to be on the same team:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($6.000m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.500m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Ryan Suter ($6.250m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,846,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $708,056

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05-24-2012, 05:26 PM
  #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...-thoughts.html

Even with the CBA expiring, one would think that the PA would still activate the escalator since it's purpose is to offset escrow by adding more potential money to the market.
Even if the upper limit is lowered, they probably want that extra 5%.
Probably right about that.

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05-24-2012, 05:29 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
From that article on the other thread on both Parise and Suter wanting to be on the same team:

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Zach Parise ($6.000m)
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m)
Jakub Voracek ($3.500m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.580m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Ryan Suter ($6.250m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Andreas Lilja ($0.738m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $71,846,944; BONUSES: $3,555,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $708,056
The only way we can fit Suter and Parise in this off season is by trading someone. That is also if the cap goes up to 69/72 million. The possibility of both of them coming here is slim to none.

Also that report was written by a Detroit Paper. Let's not forget what some Philly papers were saying last year about Carter, Richards, and Stamkos. Take everything we read this time of the year with a grain of salt unless it is from a well known source I.E Bobby Mac and Dreger.

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05-24-2012, 05:36 PM
  #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
The only way we can fit Suter and Parise in this off season is by trading someone. That is also if the cap goes up to 69/72 million. The possibility of both of them coming here is slim to none.

Also that report was written by a Detroit Paper. Let's not forget what some Philly papers were saying last year about Carter, Richards, and Stamkos. Take everything we read this time of the year with a grain of salt unless it is from a well known source I.E Bobby Mac and Dreger.
We are getting stamkos this year instead!

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05-24-2012, 05:40 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
The only way we can fit Suter and Parise in this off season is by trading someone. That is also if the cap goes up to 69/72 million. The possibility of both of them coming here is slim to none.

Also that report was written by a Detroit Paper. Let's not forget what some Philly papers were saying last year about Carter, Richards, and Stamkos. Take everything we read this time of the year with a grain of salt unless it is from a well known source I.E Bobby Mac and Dreger.
Can't go wrong with Bobby Mac and Dreger.

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05-24-2012, 05:42 PM
  #570
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Do you guys really think Weber will get his current pay (7.5M) or do you think he's go down to 7M or 6.75M at a long-ish contract (5 to 7 years)?

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05-24-2012, 05:44 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Do you guys really think Weber will get his current pay (7.5M) or do you think he's go down to 7M or 6.75M at a long-ish contract (5 to 7 years)?
If Shea Weber hits the UFA market, I fully expect him to sign the highest contract(cap hit) ever by a defenseman. It probably will be somewhere around 8 million if he gets to the UFA market. That of course is if he doesn't take a home town discount to play for Vancouver

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05-24-2012, 05:44 PM
  #572
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Can't go wrong with Bobby Mac and Dreger.
You mean Darren "I'm reporting this quickly before Mackenzie notices his Blackberry is missing" Dreger? He's pretty hit or miss, from my noticing.

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05-24-2012, 06:13 PM
  #573
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You mean Darren "I'm reporting this quickly before Mackenzie notices his Blackberry is missing" Dreger? He's pretty hit or miss, from my noticing.
Dreger is about as reliable as it get's

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05-24-2012, 06:50 PM
  #574
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I really can't see any team taking on up to 15 million dollars a year in cap space for both Suter and Parise, even if a team like Detroit has the space. If they both feel that strongly about playing with each other, then they're going to have to take smaller hits. I really think they both want market value, as they both were on pretty team friendly deals.

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05-24-2012, 07:21 PM
  #575
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You mean Darren "I'm reporting this quickly before Mackenzie notices his Blackberry is missing" Dreger? He's pretty hit or miss, from my noticing.
Their better than 99% of the other "insiders" out there.

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