Sorry, comparing KO to that slug is comical. Kyle gives much more effort, but he's hit more posts this year than Rolston has had shifts where he broke a sweat.
I think Kyles still confused about what type of player he's most effective as...finesse or power. Sounds like he's realized what will be most efficient for both he & the team. Better late than never
True, it is comical because that slug used to be a damn good player, consistently. Kyle can't hang his hat on anything like that. I can give you a list of players who have shown flashes of talent year after year but who consistently disappoint. Most will remain that way their entire career. Sure they will have one good year which will inflate their price forever, and they will get handed around the league like a leper, but that's not anyone you'd call "core."
I sure hope he finally gets it. I'd like to root for him rather than cringe when he starts to do his little dangle routine, ultimately losing the puck. But call me a curmudgeon for not being convinced he's back to normal after one whole good game. I need to see several months of consistent play from him, then I will consider it.
Of course if he is nursing some heinous injury and they threw him out there anyway that too could explain much. With this club, it would not surprise me.
Eh, Baileys play was noticably better the second he was put on a line with some talent. I am way more sure that bailey will be a good player for many years in the NHL. Not nearly as sure on KO.
I agree with this, but I also agree with Dutch in that Bailey still isn't where I'd have hoped a guy with a few years would be. In the end Bailey has one excuse to lean on somewhat, and that's that he was rushed and it screwed him.
What is ironic is that Cizikas and Ulstrom may end up better than Josh because they were allowed time to develop.
Eh, Baileys play was noticably better the second he was put on a line with some talent. I am way more sure that bailey will be a good player for many years in the NHL. Not nearly as sure on KO.
I agree with this, but I also agree with Dutch in that Bailey still isn't where I'd have hoped a guy with a few years would be. In the end Bailey has one excuse to lean on somewhat, and that's that he was rushed and it screwed him.
What is ironic is that Cizikas and Ulstrom may end up better than Josh because they were allowed time to develop.
I cant really comment on this because I just really started following hockey again at the end of last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xECK29x
Bailey is better at wing, period.
For sure. I think it is pretty apparent. I think he has great hockey sense, but I think he is much better used as a play maker who can afford to take chances, than a center who is trying to hold a line together.
Sorry ive seen these little spurts of talent with both KO and Bailey before. How long before he goes back to being a softy and trash talking after 3 refs are in between him.
You guys are like obsessed parents who are ecstatic every time your kid scores a goal. In the end you all need to realize the kid aint that good to be a pro and you have to just appreciate it for what he is. The sooner Garth realizes this ,the easier it will be to get a better package in return.
Let me see if im understanding your logic correctly... "the kid ain't that good (not sure if you're talking about KO or Bailey - regardless) and you have to appreciate it for what he is" - I'm with you 100% (not saying I agree)... "The sooner Garth realizes this the easier it will be to get a better package back in return".. This has been mentioned before and I was just as perplexed than as I am now.
Please enlighten me.. how can this be???
Once Garth "realizes" that KO, or Bailey.. whoever.. "ain't that good to be a pro", how does it become "easier to get a better package back in return"??? Is Garth smarter than every other GM and scout in the NHL and once he decides they suck, every other team in the league is going to want either (or both)???
If they both (or either) suck, what exactly would would constitute "a better package"??? I'm having even more difficulty understanding why (if they aint that good) any other team would give up anything of value???
Let me see if im understanding your logic correctly... "the kid ain't that good (not sure if you're talking about KO or Bailey - regardless) and you have to appreciate it for what he is" - I'm with you 100% (not saying I agree)... "The sooner Garth realizes this the easier it will be to get a better package back in return".. This has been mentioned before and I was just as perplexed than as I am now.
Please enlighten me.. how can this be???
Once Garth "realizes" that KO, or Bailey.. whoever.. "ain't that good to be a pro", how does it become "easier to get a better package back in return"??? Is Garth smarter than every other GM and scout in the NHL and once he decides they suck, every other team in the league is going to want either (or both)???
If they both (or either) suck, what exactly would would constitute "a better package"??? I'm having even more difficulty understanding why (if they aint that good) any other team would give up anything of value???
ok let me explain this for you because your perplexed
KO and Josh are first round top 10 draft picks... they have been in the league for 3-4 years. They are still in good standing.. ya know like that big jar of mayonnaise you buy at costco a month earlier.
Just like perishable foods the same analogy belongs to prospects. Sometimes you need to check the expiration date.
A better package would be KO/Bailey and another prospect for a top D man or a top forward.. someone who is signed for 3 years tops that can contribute immediately
Let me see if im understanding your logic correctly...
you're expecting logic and reasoning from islanders fans based on okposo? the fanbase that gives grabner a free pass for doing nothing except getting breakaways (and not scoring on them) and despises okposo for not being able to score on chances he gets all by himself?
you're expecting logic and reasoning from... the fanbase that gives grabner a free pass for doing nothing except getting breakaways (and not scoring on them)
Not all of them. I would love to see Grabner shipped for just about anything at this point. Guy is totally worthless.
you're expecting logic and reasoning from islanders fans based on okposo? the fanbase that gives grabner a free pass for doing nothing except getting breakaways (and not scoring on them) and despises okposo for not being able to score on chances he gets all by himself?
Thats because Grabner has the speed of Pavel Bure and scored 30 plus goals and can do it again if he can finish it. Ill package Okposo/Grabner/Nilsson to Columbus for Rick Nash and call it the best trade the Islanders have made since getting Ryan Smyth.
Not all of them. I would love to see Grabner shipped for just about anything at this point. Guy is totally worthless.
I'm all about needs. You get me that defenseman we know we need and I will personally drive anyone not named Hamonic or Tavares to their new team to get it.
I'm all about needs. You get me that defenseman we know we need and I will personally drive anyone not named Hamonic or Tavares to their new team to get it.
Exactly!!! I'll trade everyone Except the 2 above. Our GM is too timid to pull the trigger and the people on this board feel that trading KO or Bailey is like giving up there first born child.
Exactly!!! I'll trade everyone Except the 2 above. Our GM is too timid to pull the trigger and the people on this board feel that trading KO or Bailey is like giving up there first born child.
Then they call you Milbury. Because wanting to move two X's for one good O, just once to fill a humongous need, is blasphemy in the House Of Snow.
Yup, let's expect much more from our 22 and 23 year old players who never had a real player to lean on in their struggles and now have to lean on each other. Let's complain that they're not living up to our expectations.
Who is the most talented veteran in our lineup? Frans Nielsen. He's played the amazing total of 303 NHL games.
Josh Bailey has played LW, RW and Center already. He's already played in 275 NHL games.
Where's the veteran that Kyle Okposo has been feeding and working with?
KO's already played in 255 NHL games.
These kids, and they're still kids, have been playing only off of each other. When they struggle, who do they lean on?
All we've ever had is washed up or winding down veterans at forward.
When we add just ONE ****ING veteran who can be relied on to produce at forward and tutor these kids, then I'll ***** and moan about where these kids should be.
They're doing it all on their own. When they struggle, they have to figure out on their own. They have only each other to rely on.
I understand not having any patience with the franchise. I really don't understand why some people can't find more patience for these kids considering they can only lean on each other.
KO looked pretty good for a long time next to Tavares. Anyone think Bailey wouldn't look good on JT's wing?
What would a 1A goal scoring center do to this lineup? Someone who can be relied on to score goals. Someone with a bit more size down the middle.
I think some of these kids are still going to pan out even though we've given them nothing to help them through it. But let's not pretend like these players have gone through 3 or 4 years of development where others can help pick up the slack when they struggle. Everything is simply going to take longer. We're waiting for everything to trickle up. Our players are going to take that much longer to mature; some might even not reach their full potential because we haven't aided them in the process.
Thankfully, these kids all seem to have good heads on their shoulders. Hopefully, they'll be able to keep their wits about them as they go through their struggles only with each other on the ice.
Your lofty expectations should consider the environment that these players are maturing in. John Tavares is the exception, not the rule of what to expect.
Yup, let's expect much more from our 22 and 23 year old players who never had a real player to lean on in their struggles and now have to lean on each other. Let's complain that they're not living up to our expectations.
Who is the most talented veteran in our lineup? Frans Nielsen. He's played the amazing total of 303 NHL games.
Josh Bailey has played LW, RW and Center already. He's already played in 275 NHL games.
Where's the veteran that Kyle Okposo has been feeding and working with?
KO's already played in 255 NHL games.
These kids, and they're still kids, have been playing only off of each other. When they struggle, who do they lean on?
All we've ever had is washed up or winding down veterans at forward.
When we add just ONE ****ING veteran who can be relied on to produce at forward and tutor these kids, then I'll ***** and moan about where these kids should be.
They're doing it all on their own. When they struggle, they have to figure out on their own. They have only each other to rely on.
I understand not having any patience with the franchise. I really don't understand why some people can't find more patience for these kids considering they can only lean on each other.
KO looked pretty good for a long time next to Tavares. Anyone think Bailey wouldn't look good on JT's wing?
What would a 1A goal scoring center do to this lineup? Someone who can be relied on to score goals. Someone with a bit more size down the middle.
I think some of these kids are still going to pan out even though we've given them nothing to help them through it. But let's not pretend like these players have gone through 3 or 4 years of development where others can help pick up the slack when they struggle. Everything is simply going to take longer. We're waiting for everything to trickle up. Our players are going to take that much longer to mature; some might even not reach their full potential because we haven't aided them in the process.
Thankfully, these kids all seem to have good heads on their shoulders. Hopefully, they'll be able to keep their wits about them as they go through their struggles only with each other on the ice.
Your lofty expectations should consider the environment that these players are maturing in. John Tavares is the exception, not the rule of what to expect.
Exactly!!! I'll trade everyone Except the 2 above. Our GM is too timid to pull the trigger and the people on this board feel that trading KO or Bailey is like giving up there first born child.
I'd put Martin into the mix. He's not as talented as Tavares or Hamonic, but he's got balls that his teammates don't. Still, everyone else is movable and replaceable to me.
Yup, let's expect much more from our 22 and 23 year old players who never had a real player to lean on in their struggles and now have to lean on each other. Let's complain that they're not living up to our expectations.
Who is the most talented veteran in our lineup? Frans Nielsen. He's played the amazing total of 303 NHL games.
Josh Bailey has played LW, RW and Center already. He's already played in 275 NHL games.
Where's the veteran that Kyle Okposo has been feeding and working with?
KO's already played in 255 NHL games.
These kids, and they're still kids, have been playing only off of each other. When they struggle, who do they lean on?
All we've ever had is washed up or winding down veterans at forward.
When we add just ONE ****ING veteran who can be relied on to produce at forward and tutor these kids, then I'll ***** and moan about where these kids should be.
They're doing it all on their own. When they struggle, they have to figure out on their own. They have only each other to rely on.
I understand not having any patience with the franchise. I really don't understand why some people can't find more patience for these kids considering they can only lean on each other.
KO looked pretty good for a long time next to Tavares. Anyone think Bailey wouldn't look good on JT's wing?
What would a 1A goal scoring center do to this lineup? Someone who can be relied on to score goals. Someone with a bit more size down the middle.
I think some of these kids are still going to pan out even though we've given them nothing to help them through it. But let's not pretend like these players have gone through 3 or 4 years of development where others can help pick up the slack when they struggle. Everything is simply going to take longer. We're waiting for everything to trickle up. Our players are going to take that much longer to mature; some might even not reach their full potential because we haven't aided them in the process.
Thankfully, these kids all seem to have good heads on their shoulders. Hopefully, they'll be able to keep their wits about them as they go through their struggles only with each other on the ice.
Your lofty expectations should consider the environment that these players are maturing in. John Tavares is the exception, not the rule of what to expect.
,
Mitch
This is all valid. And I've always been more upset about team management than I have been about individual players. I think almost any one of these players would be good on any other teams for the reasons that you've pointed out.
Yup, let's expect much more from our 22 and 23 year old players who never had a real player to lean on in their struggles and now have to lean on each other. Let's complain that they're not living up to our expectations.
Who is the most talented veteran in our lineup? Frans Nielsen. He's played the amazing total of 303 NHL games.
Josh Bailey has played LW, RW and Center already. He's already played in 275 NHL games.
Where's the veteran that Kyle Okposo has been feeding and working with?
KO's already played in 255 NHL games.
These kids, and they're still kids, have been playing only off of each other. When they struggle, who do they lean on?
All we've ever had is washed up or winding down veterans at forward.
When we add just ONE ****ING veteran who can be relied on to produce at forward and tutor these kids, then I'll ***** and moan about where these kids should be.
They're doing it all on their own. When they struggle, they have to figure out on their own. They have only each other to rely on.
I understand not having any patience with the franchise. I really don't understand why some people can't find more patience for these kids considering they can only lean on each other.
KO looked pretty good for a long time next to Tavares. Anyone think Bailey wouldn't look good on JT's wing?
What would a 1A goal scoring center do to this lineup? Someone who can be relied on to score goals. Someone with a bit more size down the middle.
I think some of these kids are still going to pan out even though we've given them nothing to help them through it. But let's not pretend like these players have gone through 3 or 4 years of development where others can help pick up the slack when they struggle. Everything is simply going to take longer. We're waiting for everything to trickle up. Our players are going to take that much longer to mature; some might even not reach their full potential because we haven't aided them in the process.
Thankfully, these kids all seem to have good heads on their shoulders. Hopefully, they'll be able to keep their wits about them as they go through their struggles only with each other on the ice.
Your lofty expectations should consider the environment that these players are maturing in. John Tavares is the exception, not the rule of what to expect.
,
Mitch
A fair analysis, BUT where do you get your mythical 1A center? Nelson? If we wait for our prince to come in, and by that I mean up front and/or on the blueline, you better invest in razors because you will have a ZZ Top beard in place when the order is filled. And since no UFA worth a pooh is going to come here, you have to trade something.
So there it is. And who are you going to trade? Guaranteed it includes at least one of Bailey and Okposo. Or you do nothing and watch this team build really slowly, like the Sens did from their birth in the 90s.
A fair analysis, BUT where do you get your mythical 1A center? Nelson? If we wait for our prince to come in, and by that I mean up front and/or on the blueline, you better invest in razors because you will have a ZZ Top beard in place when the order is filled. And since no UFA worth a pooh is going to come here, you have to trade something.
So there it is. And who are you going to trade? Guaranteed it includes at least one of Bailey and Okposo. Or you do nothing and watch this team build really slowly, like the Sens did from their birth in the 90s.
It is inescapable.
I've said plenty of times what I would try to do. It's irrelevant.
For this thread, the main point is that some are being harsh on players that have been brought up in a very unfavorable environment.
I'm not against trading Bailey or KO, but we're still not at the point where we can subtract two players and add one. Of course, it does depend on how good that one player is. Only way you're getting what you really want is in a salary dump of a quality player.
Does Bailey and KO at this point get you the player you desire? What else does it take? Is it safer to bide our time and continue to try to add via free agency and maybe get lucky with a "Streit" at forward? If we can never add salary at all, does it really matter what we want?
If we're destined to be at the bottom of the budget list, then there's only so far we're going to compete. Still, the best bet is to go solely through the draft while coddling the players you have as much as possible with a limited budget. Keep them believing in themselves as much as possible. It sucks, but so far that's what we're doing. We deserve better for the losing we've gone through and the clown show we've endured.
Still, it'll be 2-3 years if we continue the slow rebuild before you start to see what you really want to see here. However, we've been doing the slow rebuild fairly well. We've drafted to improve upon our organizational weaknesses. It's a dangerous game. I've said it before. The danger is that we end up being a good team instead of a great team because we didn't supplement the rebuild. We will end up being a good team. I have no doubt in my mind. Far too much is already in place. However, I want us to be a great team and waiting longer doesn't improve our chances anymore.
I'm a big proponent of Bailey and KO. They've shown me more than they haven't shown me. They need support. If that support arrives in prospects that reinforce the lineup with more talent and better physical attributes, or pushes them into lesser roles, then so be it. The team will be better and they will be better for it. I think their brains and bodies can deal with the abuse in the long run if given enough time. Eventually, support will be here.
Until this team shows me that they can actually add salary, we're better off keeping these kinds of players.
If you make the right offer they'll take it. Wang's just too cheap to offer a sufficient, front-loaded deal.
I disagree. I think Wang and the Islanders have a bad reputation, and many high quality unrestricted free agents would take a little less money to play for a better organization.
I disagree. I think Wang and the Islanders have a bad reputation, and many high quality unrestricted free agents would take a little less money to play for a better organization.
and thats why you have to offer a LOT more. I know its getting a bit sidetracked but if Suter's top offer is 7.5 from whomever, Isles should offer him 8.5.
as far as this thread however, I stand with the others who say you ignore a body of work and praise the lone blip. Even when bailey ISNT producing you still see that magic that he has. When okposo isnt producing he is lazy and invisible at best. I still would see if i could get Sbisa from the ducks in exchange for okposo. would fill a GLARING need on our blueline.
Not to predict that Okposo and Bailey will eventually fulfill their expected ceilings, but was was watching the 'Peg/Buff game and had to note the immense improvement in Wheeler after all he has gone through. It's like the light came on for this guy, and it brings up comparisons to Bailey and Okposo.
Drafted in 2004, he is with his 2nd team (actually third as he refused to sign with the Yotes that drafted him).
He was always known as a player who did not use his gifts of great size, speed, and offensive ability because of lack of passion and effort. He was a typical inconsistent player that made no impact on the game and always left you looking for more from him. He also seemed to have a sense of entitlement that didn't match is performance.
At age 25 he seems to have found his mojo and is leading the 'Peg in scoring, on track for 66 points. The totals are not exceptional other than it is a huge improvement over his career best 45 points. What does get your attention is the passion and impact he has on the game now. He skates hard, hits, plays both sides of the puck strongly. He has found himself, and it took a good part of this season to arrive. Confidence or motivation, IDK.
But this is what is worth waiting for in Okposo and Baily. They have the same tools as Wheeler (only lesser size) but are playing below their impact ability and output. Like Wheeler, they could break out over the next 2-3 seasons. There is hope for them and to be too hasty in moving them could be a very costly mistake.
Yes. My hopes are not up either. But until we cross that 3 loss threshold there is still reason to hope if you feel this team can do it.
For perspective, a 12-3-1 record will give us 90 points. That might be enough. 11-3-2 is 89 pts...that is stretching it. Anything less and say goodbye to the playoffs. So if we lose 3 straight we would need to go 13-0-0 at best or an 11-0-2 streak to even think about making it. I don't have a lot of confidence in them achieving this.
Don't mean to go off topic but supporting the hopes of some of the fans, the play of Okposo will have an impact on this outcome. Especially with two rookies on his line. he can drive that secondary scoring as long as the defense can play like they did in NJ.
We all know that that likely isn't happening. What the Isles will probably do is tank for a few more game. That will all but numerically end their season. Then they will get hot to win their last 4 or 5 games of the season. Putting themselves just one draft pick short of getting any of this years drafts studs. Like almost every year with the exception of 2009 with Tavares.
I disagree. I think Wang and the Islanders have a bad reputation, and many high quality unrestricted free agents would take a little less money to play for a better organization.
I don't think that the Isles have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a top UFA like Parise, but there's absolutely no reason that they shouldn't be able to attract midlevel free agents. It wasn't that long ago that we signed guys like Miro Satan, Brendan Witt, Tom Poti...nothing's changed except the fact that the Isles don't make an honest effort anymore.
As for Okposo, he's had a **** season but there's no reason to give up on him yet. I still think that he'll ultimately be more "K.O." than "Oh-no-so."
That said, if the right package comes along, see ya.
This has been mentioned before and I was just as perplexed than as I am now. 
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