One of only 41 players to score 500+ goals.
1000+ GP (only 264 players have ever done this) just shy of 900 pts.
2 Rocket Richard Trophies
Gold Medal at World Championships in 2002, Bronze in 2003.
Him or Stan Mikita has to be the greatest Slovak to ever play the game.
Roenick as well for HOF
500+ goals, 1216 points. Three 100 pt seasons.
Only 3rd american to score 500+.
Turgeon
Another 500+ goal guy. 1327 points.
Nearly 1300 GP. Won a Lady Byng.
Cup.
For me, it would be a no for all three players. For the actual HoF committee? I'm not quite sure.
There have been some questionable selections from an outsider's perspective when considering the HoF. Since we do not know the reasoning, it is difficult to grasp why players like Laprade, Boivin, Gillies and Duff (to name a few) have been included, while others like Makarov, Oates, and Tremblay have not. I would have listed Lindros, but I'm sure part of the hesitation with induction is regarding character. In my view he should be in.
From my experience, all three were great players, but were not exactly HoF quality, in it's ideal form. If I were to rank them, I would have to say Roenick, Turgeon, then Bondra. Just my opinion.
Was Bondra really worse player than Turgeon?
I mean just look at their scoring finishes and take into consideration Bondra was a pure goal scorer and Turgeon playmaker.
Turgeon's assist or points finishes are uncomparable to Bondra's goal-scoring finishes. Bondra was definitely more elite in his job than Turgeon. Bondra was payed for scoring goals and he did his job no matter circumstances. He was better penalty killer, better skater and no softie in terms he played his best during clutch and grab era. When there are no All-star team selections, at least there are all-star games where Bondra takes the cake 5-4.
Was Bondra really worse player than Turgeon?
I mean just look at their scoring finishes and take into consideration Bondra was a pure goal scorer and Turgeon playmaker.
Turgeon's assist or points finishes are uncomparable to Bondra's goal-scoring finishes. Bondra was definitely more elite in his job than Turgeon. Bondra was payed for scoring goals and he did his job no matter circumstances. He was better penalty killer, better skater and no softie in terms he played his best during clutch and grab era. When there are no All-star team selections, at least there are all-star games where Bondra takes the cake 5-4.
Turgeon didn't need to score the goals. He banked 40 in off of Scott Young
Roenick is the only one of the three who played at a HHOF level, but he only did it for a few years before being set back by injuries.
Would say Turgeons Buffalo/NY-time was on a HHOF-level. Could probably say pre-Hunter, as he never really was the same after that. Of course it was in an high scoring era. Those were also Roenicks best years, and Turgeon arguably outplayed him in a few of those seasons. Roenick is actually an all time favourite, so I´m biased here - but I would include both Jeremy and Pierre.
Bondra will be remembered as a great scorer who led the league twice. Really impressive goalscoring 94-98 Not sure if I would include him. He would probably be in. But he actually even has a hard time cracking my top 10 slovak and probably even top 5 of his era than I first thougt. Without giving it too much thought, forwards of his era I´d pick on my team before him:
Palffy, Demitra and Hossa. All better players in my book. Both NHL and international games. Then on D there´s Chara and an underrated Svehla. Of course in history there´s the obvious Mikita (if seen as slovak...) and Stastny (at least Peter...).
Had one of the strangest modern seasons. GP 47 G 34 A 9 P 43. Only modern player with 30+ goals and 10- assists?
Had one of the strangest modern seasons. GP 47 G 34 A 9 P 43. Only modern player with 30+ goals and 10- assists?
Because he was a catalyst of his lines. In the first half of his career he was centered by Pivonka, at his best hardly a 20 goals scorer (not bad player by any means, but he was no scorer). In the second half of his career he was centered by Nikolishin, good, solid 30 points center. In the very end, after he has became a journeyman in Ottawa, Atlanta and Chicago he was 3rd line player - specialist and his main job was to score on PP or PK.
I dont get this whole no-assists hype around Bondra because i.e. H. Sedin or P. Forsberg never get any kind of criticism on their goal scoring ability.
Two times leading scorer of NHL is certainly a raising eyebrows omission in HOF.
Because he was a catalyst of his lines. In the first half of his career he was centered by Pivonka, at his best hardly a 20 goals scorer (not bad player by any means, but he was no scorer). In the second half of his career he was centered by Nikolishin, good, solid 30 points center. In the very end, after he has became a journeyman in Ottawa, Atlanta and Chicago he was 3rd line player - specialist and his main job was to score on PP or PK.
I dont get this whole no-assists hype around Bondra because i.e. H. Sedin or P. Forsberg never get any kind of criticism on their goal scoring ability.
Two times leading scorer of NHL is certainly a raising eyebrows omission in HOF.
That season wasn´t actually meant as negative critic, quite the opposite. Even if I tend to favour other types of players than Bondras he´s goalscoring touch of the early DPE is really impressive to say the least. But when I´m thinking back of howe I reflected over players during that era, Bondra never was among the tops.
As i said before, if only given the choose to compare him to his slovak forward comprades fo his era I would choose Palffy (DPE most underrated player?) and Demitra before him. If Hossa is included in his era I´d pick him before too.
I dont get this whole no-assists hype around Bondra because i.e. H. Sedin or P. Forsberg never get any kind of criticism on their goal scoring ability.
Sedin and Forsberg won the Art Ross. What was Bondra's best result in the scoring race, #11?
Stan Mikita was eight when he moved to Canada. I've never really considered him a Slovak player, more of a Slovak-born Canadian player. If one would, however, there should be absolutely no contest in naming him the best Slovak player of all time. Peter Bondra isn't even remotely close.
Sedin and Forsberg won the Art Ross. What was Bondra's best result in the scoring race, #11?
Scoring goals is definitely harder job than playmaking - it's my opinion, that's why it's a rare breed at high level. How many elite snipers (capable of scoring at rate 40+ per season) are there now? Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Stamkos... I would say not more than 6-8 players. How many elite playmakers are there (capable of 40+ asissts) ? I bet at least 30.
Ad 2) No-one with clear mind doesnt list Bondra as the greatest Slovak player, even without Mikita who never played any hockey before he arrived to Canada, there is at least P. Stastny and Zdeno Chara. He is definitely one of the most popular players, because he carried Slovak NT to Gold on WC with 7 goals and scored crucial game-winner in final game. It's not point of the topic but I have hard time to put Palffy ahead of Bondra. Was Palffy more talented? Hell, yes, probably most talented forward born in Slovakia. Was his career better than Bondra's one? Not sure about this.
No-one with clear mind doesnt list Bondra as the greatest Slovak player, even without Mikita who never played any hockey before he arrived to Canada, there is at least P. Stastny and Zdeno Chara.
Doesnt? I think you have Šťastný and Chára are ahead of Bondra, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbeee
Scoring goals is definitely harder job than playmaking...
It's not point of the topic but I have hard time to put Palffy ahead of Bondra. Was Palffy more talented? Hell, yes, probably most talented forward born in Slovakia. Was his career better than Bondra's one? Not sure about this.
1996-97 Bondra: 46 goals, 31 assists. (#25 in scoring)
1996-97 Pálffy: 48 goals, 42 assists. (#8 in scoring)
Pálffy is even the better goalscorer here.
1997-98 Bondra: 52 goals, 26 assists (#11 in scoring, best ranking)
1997-98 Pálffy: 45 goals, 42 assists (#6 in scoring, best ranking)
Is +7 goals enough for you to make up for -16 assists?
2000-01 Bondra: 45 goals, 36 assists (#18 in scoring)
2000-01 Pálffy: 38 goals, 51 assists (#9 in scoring)
Is +7 goals enough for you to make up for -15 assists?
Can't see any of these 3 making the Hall of Fame. If had to rank the 3 of them based upon their Hall of Fame Chances, here's how I'd rank them:
1) Roenick
2) Turgeon
3) Bondra
__________________
Exhibit A as to how hockey doesn't matter on ESPN:
Last night an ESPN program was discussing how the Detroit Pistons needed a hero citing the heroes on the Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions and no mention of the Detroit Red Wings. All this despite the Red Wings probably being the most succesful team in Detroit right now.
As i said before, if only given the choose to compare him to his slovak forward comprades fo his era I would choose Palffy (DPE most underrated player?) and Demitra before him. If Hossa is included in his era I´d pick him before too.
I would put Miroslav Satan in that group. He was a very productive & dangerous player, very underrated because he mostly played on non contending teams (and because he has a funny name.)
Last edited by Hot Water Bottle: 03-05-2012 at 08:53 AM.
bondra is basically bure-light or selänne-light, not really as good goal scorer and not close to the overall impact, bure and selänne could carry the offense of whole teams [florida|anaheim] and finished top three in both scoring [both twice] and hart voting, bondra not so much
so if bure's not there then bondra is light years from the hof or at least should be, his best case would be to point at neely but neely kills bondra in the playoffs
I agree that most of these players are iffy, but... A few people have mentioned before on these boards that the top 15 scorers from the 1980-1990 period are all in the Hall of Fame (Anderson was the last inductee). For comparison, here’s the top 15 scorers from the 1990-2000 period.
Jagr
Oates
Sakic
Gretzky
Yzerman
Recchi
Hull
Turgeon
Fleury
Francis
Sundin
Roenick
Gilmour
Robitaille
Messier
All played a roughly comparable number of games. It’s interesting that the conventional wisdom around here is that three of the players on this list (Turgeon, Fleury, Roenick) probably won’t get in the HOF, while Recchi is borderline. Is that because the topline talent just wasn't as good as in the '80s? Or is it because people are a lot more critical of recent players while glossing over the flaws of players long since retired? I'm not sure.
I’d also be curious to know if Turgeon (at #8 up there) is the highest-scoring player over a 10-year period to get left out of the Hall. (He's at #6 if you go between 1988 and 1998.)
If it were up to me, they wouldn't be in. But, the fact that those 3 are compilers like Ciccarelli and Gartner(who are in) gives them a chance.
Bondra wasn't a compiler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theokritos
Doesnt? I think you have Šťastný and Chára are ahead of Bondra, right?
Yeah, sure. Definitely Stastny, Chara ... Bondra. Sorry for english.
Quote:
1996-97 Bondra: 46 goals, 31 assists. (#25 in scoring)
1996-97 Pálffy: 48 goals, 42 assists. (#8 in scoring)
Pálffy is even the better goalscorer here.
1997-98 Bondra: 52 goals, 26 assists (#11 in scoring, best ranking)
1997-98 Pálffy: 45 goals, 42 assists (#6 in scoring, best ranking)
Is +7 goals enough for you to make up for -16 assists?
2000-01 Bondra: 45 goals, 36 assists (#18 in scoring)
2000-01 Pálffy: 38 goals, 51 assists (#9 in scoring)
Is +7 goals enough for you to make up for -15 assists?
As I have said - talent wise. Take a look at the whole picture. What exactly Palffy accomplished? Always played for crappy teams and he didnt carry them anywhere. To some extent his career can be compared to Kovalchuk pre-Devils or Nash.
Bondra won two retrospective Richards, played in SCF and became a face of his franchise, scored an iconic goal on WC and was leading scorer during that run.
I would rather live Bondra's career than Palffy bilion times. And I'm not talking about their personalities yet...
