HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

GM and Coaching options

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-06-2012, 06:46 PM
  #101
Liberati0n*
Full Hammock
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgroban View Post
no argument from me. i am just saying - i do not think Ovy is untouchable.
Obviously he shouldn't be, but sadly he is.

Liberati0n* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 01:36 AM
  #102
sunnydaycrash
Registered User
 
sunnydaycrash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver
Country: Portugal
Posts: 3,725
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I agree. There were completely different factors back then and the Oil (and their scandalous owner) were massively short on cash.

Unless Ovechkin demands a trade he goes nowhere. He is a sure fire Hall of Famer and it would be nice to have him finish his career here.

You guys do know at one point Yzerman was severly ridiculed (larry brooks even suggested he was going to be traded for Kevin Hatcher back in 94) but the wings stuck with him and it turned out to be a good move.

Caps need to be patient with this player. If he flounders and we are stuck with his contract then so be it.
I completely agree.....Iginla also had 2 subpar years after his first 50 goal season

sunnydaycrash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 06:50 AM
  #103
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,998
vCash: 500
with all the blood in the water and the firings completed and on the table it really cant be fixed without the one guy getting it right. the carolina crew mentioned it last night.

the caps are 27-6-3 when ovechkin has a point. so, no ov, no wins. no points for ov. 5-23-3

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 07:44 AM
  #104
RandyHolt
Aiko Oshie All Day
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 26,447
vCash: 2714
Its not rocket science, stats are not needed to see the obvious. Ovi is our team. From his cap hit to his skill level to the expectations on him as captain and otherwise, we all know it.

Ovi broke sometime after Montreal, and we all know that too. His will, his confidence, his wrist, his double teaming, the league on his back, his ability to hold onto the puck, heck to even shoot the puck, to get it on goal, the list goes on. Just letting him run and gun didn't fix him. Bruce tried that, this fall and last season.

Dale tried to install structure, a system. Discipline. Ovi had a 50 goal pace set over 20 games in the middle of your boredom, no ENG's padding the numbers. But until Ovi stops loafing on defense, Dale will not use him in situations where he thinks defense is mandated. Is Dale taking it to the extreme, probably. But he was showing some progress while neutering Ovi into stop being a f'in cherry picker. Then it happened.

We all know it, losing Nick just crushed our team. You can pin it on Dale but you look foolish. We struggled at hockey basics for years, holding the puck, passing, all of it. You think we couldn't handle a pass before? Its now worse, and Nick appreciated more than ever. MJ has moved from center to wing to invisible. MP may have hit his wall, Halpern, meh. Beagle is our best center! No joking. It's ugly.

I don't think a coach can fix a team of stone hands. It's on the GM. If Dale has to teach players how to pass or possess a puck, he inherited a severely flawed team and you are setting a high bar on him to fix that mid season, no roster moves to help. Our defense last night, HAS to be one of the youngest in the league. Wideman is our all star! Our tending, inconsistent as ever.

Dale is stubborn, sure. Hammer didn't like his benching, he should have kept his yap shut. Who knew. Knuble -16 is what it is, our slowest player riding the pine. Dale as stubborn has he may be, has loosened the reins on our cherry picker. Yes even he realizes it.

The only person that can get us out of this mess right now is Ovi. It may be the wrong time to teach him discipline or a system, its hard to say whats best for us at this moment. Let him reinforce that cherry picking is the key to eternal happiness?

Welcome to Dale's world.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 03-07-2012 at 07:58 AM.
RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 07:55 AM
  #105
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
with all the blood in the water and the firings completed and on the table it really cant be fixed without the one guy getting it right. the carolina crew mentioned it last night.

the caps are 27-6-3 when ovechkin has a point. so, no ov, no wins. no points for ov. 5-23-3
Even more reason to keep Ovi then!! haha

It may look bleak right now but I have utter faith in this player and I am convinced he will turn on the afterburners and reverse the trend with him and this team.

Also I'm gonna say it again (and its not politically correct)...Backstrom needs to cowboy up, fight thru his headaches and get back on the ice. NFL players do it all the time and the hit he took wasn't nearly as bad as others (Crosby for instance)

BobRouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:02 AM
  #106
Liberati0n*
Full Hammock
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,146
vCash: 500
How "bad" the hit was has nothing to do with it.

Liberati0n* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:08 AM
  #107
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
How "bad" the hit was has nothing to do with it.
I'm not going to sugar coat it here....Tony Twist even suggested that Backstrom's hit wasn't that bad and he needed to fight thru it a few days after the incident.

BobRouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:13 AM
  #108
Liberati0n*
Full Hammock
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
I'm not going to sugar coat it here....Tony Twist even suggested that Backstrom's hit wasn't that bad and he needed to fight thru it a few days after the incident.
How hard the hit looks really does not tell you anything about how severe the concussion is. A lot of factors influence it.

Liberati0n* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:15 AM
  #109
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonsofcain View Post
How hard the hit looks really does not tell you anything about how severe the concussion is. A lot of factors influence it.
Concussions to me have been blown WAY out of proportion. I am thoroughly convinced that the only reason they exist in the NHL is due to the guaranteed contracts.

But this is going off topic. Backstrom's "injury" is killing the team and it would be nice to see him bite the bullet and get back in there.

BobRouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:39 AM
  #110
RandyHolt
Aiko Oshie All Day
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 26,447
vCash: 2714
The length of time that concussions sideline players now in the hypersensitive overly cautious era we live in now tells me that the do nothing course of rehab has to be THE slowest way to get through concussions. The damage is done, and the chance of reinjury will always be there no matter how long he is on his couch. There is no turn key solution, so perhaps fighting through it has worked for others in the past.

Anyone see Voracek get Kronwalled last night? It looked like a probable concussion but he somehow skated off.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 08:59 AM
  #111
Roughing
Registered User
 
Roughing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 1,325
vCash: 500
Maybe George could hire a monkey to coach next. It could throw darts to make up the line combinations and do a better job than Dale. And I'd laugh when it threw sh** on the ice, by which I mean feces and our players.

Roughing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:02 AM
  #112
RandyHolt
Aiko Oshie All Day
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 26,447
vCash: 2714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughing View Post
Maybe George could hire a monkey to coach next. It could throw darts to make up the line combinations and do a better job than Dale. And I'd laugh when it threw sh** on the ice, by which I mean feces and our players.
He promoted Beagle last night and it seemed to pay off. While I would like to see Hammer in the lineup, its important to George to groom his kids.

What's your no brainer lineup look like, since you proclaim a monkey could it.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:05 AM
  #113
Roughing
Registered User
 
Roughing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 1,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
What's your no brainer lineup look like, since you proclaim a monkey could it.
It's hard to say since he changes all of them every 47 seconds.

Roughing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:17 AM
  #114
Dirtbag59
Registered User
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by brs03 View Post
Carlyle is in TOR for 3 years after this one. He's off the table.
Plus wasn't part of the reason Caryle failed at the end of his tenure in Anaheim due to the fact that he couldn't adjust his defensive heavy system to the offensive talent the Ducks had?


Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
with all the blood in the water and the firings completed and on the table it really cant be fixed without the one guy getting it right. the carolina crew mentioned it last night.

the caps are 27-6-3 when ovechkin has a point. so, no ov, no wins. no points for ov. 5-23-3
They were also first seed in the East last year with Backstrom missing a significant amount of time, an Ovi that scored barely over 30 goals, and Nuevy in net. I'd venture Dale is a big part of the problem.

Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:18 AM
  #115
RandyHolt
Aiko Oshie All Day
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 26,447
vCash: 2714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughing View Post
It's hard to say since he changes all of them every 47 seconds.
If you had his invisible 1C and 2C, you may be changing it up quite often too.

MP = The best we have, but seems to have hit the wall
MJ = Sophomore slumping, spends much of his time at wing
Beagle = Should have been moved sooner to C. Normally, a 13 and utility forward.
Halpern = faceoff guy, winding down career.
Hendricks = energy guy
Aucoin = AHL'er

5 young defensemen that seems decided by George that need to play. Green Alzner Carlson Sarge Orlov. Dennis F'in Wideman is the stabilizing influence. Again, I like Hammer and Erskine but folks have to sit. Green is healthy. Who knew.

Inconsistent tending. He went and gave Vokoun a long look and it seemed to go well. I will say I think he can handle his G's a little better.

We are strong at wing though.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:23 AM
  #116
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
5 young defensemen that seems decided by George that need to play. Green Alzner Carlson Sarge Orlov. Dennis F'in Wideman is the stabilizing influence. Again, I like Hammer and Erskine but folks have to sit. Green is healthy. Who knew.

Inconsistent tending. He went and gave Vokoun a long look and it seemed to go well. I will say I think he can handle his G's a little better.

We are strong at wing though.
OK here is why the conventional wisdom is to build your team from the goal on out...

Goalies and Dmen take MUCH longer to mature than forwards. Centers are more important to the team and have more responsibility than wingers.

George had stocked up on Wingers (Fehr, Flash, Ovi, Semin etc) BEFORE he grabbed up Varly/Neuvy/Holtby and his D Alzner/Carlson/Orlov

So now the wingers have come and gone or are declining in production while the Dmen are trending upwards.

He has never addressed the C position adequately.

BobRouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:23 AM
  #117
Vladiator16*
R.I.P - Loko.
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
The length of time that concussions sideline players now in the hypersensitive overly cautious era we live in now tells me that the do nothing course of rehab has to be THE slowest way to get through concussions. The damage is done, and the chance of reinjury will always be there no matter how long he is on his couch. There is no turn key solution, so perhaps fighting through it has worked for others in the past.

Anyone see Voracek get Kronwalled last night? It looked like a probable concussion but he somehow skated off.
Love that hit... Scott Stevens would be proud.


If missing 1 guy, even thou at our weakest position makes this team incompetent and unwatchable, what does it say about the teams make up...

Vladiator16* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:24 AM
  #118
Stewie G
Needed more hitting!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,609
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
The length of time that concussions sideline players now in the hypersensitive overly cautious era we live in now tells me that the do nothing course of rehab has to be THE slowest way to get through concussions. The damage is done, and the chance of reinjury will always be there no matter how long he is on his couch. There is no turn key solution, so perhaps fighting through it has worked for others in the past.

Anyone see Voracek get Kronwalled last night? It looked like a probable concussion but he somehow skated off.
So what if it is THE slowest way to get through a concussion if it results in THE lowest chance for repeat concussions? I don't know about you, but if it were my brain, I'd take the hypersensitive overly cautious approach as well, especially after seeing all of the information coming out about CTE and increased incidence of repeat concussions. I realize that these guys are getting paid millions of dollars to play hockey, but they're people as well. I'd much rather them err on the side of caution than risk putting another guy on the path to a CTE-related suicide or a lifetime of severe depression. After hearing what Probert went through his last couple years, I'm not sure how anyone can advocate a less cautious approach.

Stewie G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:24 AM
  #119
brs03
Coo coo ca cha!
 
brs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 12,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
Plus wasn't part of the reason Caryle failed at the end of his tenure in Anaheim due to the fact that he couldn't adjust his defensive heavy system to the offensive talent the Ducks had?




They were also first seed in the East last year with Backstrom missing a significant amount of time, an Ovi that scored barely over 30 goals, and Nuevy in net. I'd venture Dale is a big part of the problem.
I think Carlyle just failed because that Ducks team isn't very good. Similar to the Caps, too much reliance on their top end talent and this year that talent hasn't been there (Getzlaf especially has been abysmal IINM). Add in poor D and goaltending that wasn't where it needed to be (Hiller took a long time to get back to form after dealing with vertigo last year, I think) and you have a team that wasn't going to be able to live up to the message of a guy who's effectiveness is predicated on getting the message through.

brs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:27 AM
  #120
Roughing
Registered User
 
Roughing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Country: United States
Posts: 1,325
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
If you had his invisible 1C and 2C, you may be changing it up quite often too.

MP = The best we have, but seems to have hit the wall
MJ = Sophomore slumping, spends much of his time at wing
Beagle = Should have been moved sooner to C. Normally, a 13 and utility forward.
Halpern = faceoff guy, winding down career.
Hendricks = energy guy
Aucoin = AHL'er

5 young defensemen that seems decided by George that need to play. Green Alzner Carlson Sarge Orlov. Dennis F'in Wideman is the stabilizing influence. Again, I like Hammer and Erskine but folks have to sit. Green is healthy. Who knew.

Inconsistent tending. He went and gave Vokoun a long look and it seemed to go well. I will say I think he can handle his G's a little better.

We are strong at wing though.
All true. I know. Just frustrated as hell. I loved Dale the player but this whole season blows.

Roughing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:40 AM
  #121
RandyHolt
Aiko Oshie All Day
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 26,447
vCash: 2714
Stew, I know its unconventional wisdom. It's purely speculative on my part.

Speculate on the seemingly endless list of players concussed in the 1980's, that are not mush brained now. Did they sit out a year? If not, just how did they do it? Did they maybe play through it, somehow?

Give your best guess of how many times Probert has been hit in the head, and then do the same for Backstrom. Maybe like a 200 to 1 ratio? 1000 to 1? I am not sure the two players or their situations are comparable.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:45 AM
  #122
RandyHolt
Aiko Oshie All Day
 
RandyHolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: Poland
Posts: 26,447
vCash: 2714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roughing View Post
All true. I know. Just frustrated as hell. I loved Dale the player but this whole season blows.
I am with you brother. But our lineup is broken. Its too dependent on our stars to carry it, our systems evolved to that. And few knew that Nick was possibly more important than Ovi or Green. We were spoiled in that he was close to an iron man during Bruce's monster run.

George bet that Nick would continue that streak, and decided to patiently wait to see if MJ can be that 2C. It all backfired. And George may have failed in other ways, by again refusing to carry a heavy in the lineup to protect his top 4 assets. A conclusive study should be done by goons agents on if Bourque like elbows happen more when there is no heavy in the lineup.

George realized his failures and called up Joel. Much too late, but an admittance of his failures at least. Sure enough, half the board freaks because he can't play hockey. The board spun into meltdown mode because he got 5 minutes TOI.

RandyHolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 09:49 AM
  #123
BobRouse
Registered User
 
BobRouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 8,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
So what if it is THE slowest way to get through a concussion if it results in THE lowest chance for repeat concussions? I don't know about you, but if it were my brain, I'd take the hypersensitive overly cautious approach as well, especially after seeing all of the information coming out about CTE and increased incidence of repeat concussions. I realize that these guys are getting paid millions of dollars to play hockey, but they're people as well. I'd much rather them err on the side of caution than risk putting another guy on the path to a CTE-related suicide or a lifetime of severe depression. After hearing what Probert went through his last couple years, I'm not sure how anyone can advocate a less cautious approach.
Probert's situation was far different as he partied HARD and did tons of coke in addition to taking much more punishment.

Fact is RH is right...players back in the 80s took just as much (if not more) punishment than players today. Back then there was no such thing as a headshot! haha But those guys are fine now.

So maybe we should stop coal miners from mining coal since its a dangerous job? The prima donna athelets get paid millions and part of that is due to the associated risk playing the sport.

The NFL and boxing don't seem to care about this stuff and both those sports are far more popular than the NHL.

BobRouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 12:04 PM
  #124
Stewie G
Needed more hitting!
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,609
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Stew, I know its unconventional wisdom. It's purely speculative on my part.

Speculate on the seemingly endless list of players concussed in the 1980's, that are not mush brained now. Did they sit out a year? If not, just how did they do it? Did they maybe play through it, somehow?

Give your best guess of how many times Probert has been hit in the head, and then do the same for Backstrom. Maybe like a 200 to 1 ratio? 1000 to 1? I am not sure the two players or their situations are comparable.
Perhaps concussions these days are worse than those of days gone by. Bigger, stronger players hitting each other at high speeds might be worse than taking a couple of straight rights on the chin. I can't imagine Backstrom, Crosby, et. al, are faking their symptoms. If concussions can put one of the strongest, toughest guys like Pronger on the bench for an extended period, I'd have to believe that something is up.

Stewie G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2012, 12:11 PM
  #125
brs03
Coo coo ca cha!
 
brs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 12,216
vCash: 500
The game is undeniably faster today, so that can't make things any better in the concussion department.

I'd also guess that the standards for returning are higher, not just for the sake of caution but because players are worked harder on the ice (again, faster game) than they used to be.

So you've got the potential for more bad hits due to speed and equipment, a better ability to diagnose serious issues, bigger investments in the players, and a higher standard for the necessary level of readiness to return. There's no way things wouldn't end up looking worse today than they did in the past, even if you are assuming the same level of caution in both cases.

brs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:54 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.