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Would you be ok with a full-rebuild if it happened?

View Poll Results: If Fletcher started rebuilding, would you approve?
Yes - Build a core our group of young players. I can wait for a contender. 14 30.43%
No - That would be too painful, and you don't have to rebuild to get an elite team. 32 69.57%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-05-2012, 02:34 PM
  #26
Dr Jan Itor
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Originally Posted by UMD Bob View Post
FWIW there are about 10 teams with as much or more projected cap space than the Wild. And we still have to fill out the rest of the roster. CapGeek is blocked at work so I don't have the exact numbers, but I believe Minnesota would have something like $6-10m (depending on the new salary cap) to fill 6-8 more spots if they signed Suter and Parise for a combined $16m cap hit.

Obviously they'll go after both of them. Signing one is unlikely enough. Signing both would be shocking.
$20m in space as of now. Even with the cap projecting to go up, either Cullen would need to be traded or Bouchard would need to retire. Those are the only two "realistic" options, and I don't see either of them happening.

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03-05-2012, 02:37 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
$20m in space as of now. Even with the cap projecting to go up, either Cullen would need to be traded or Bouchard would need to retire. Those are the only two "realistic" options, and I don't see either of them happening.
Agreed, those options aren't realistic. Nor is Backstrom being moved.

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03-05-2012, 02:40 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMD Bob View Post
FWIW there are about 10 teams with as much or more projected cap space than the Wild. And we still have to fill out the rest of the roster. CapGeek is blocked at work so I don't have the exact numbers, but I believe Minnesota would have something like $6-10m (depending on the new salary cap) to fill 6-8 more spots if they signed Suter and Parise for a combined $16m cap hit.

Obviously they'll go after both of them. Signing one is unlikely enough. Signing both would be shocking.
I think signing both is the more likely than signing one. I think the Wild will look more like a contender with both than with one, which will be key to making this work. I'm not saying it's super likely, but it's not impossible. The Wild's remaining roster spots can be filled by relatively cheap guys already on the roster, and prospects coming up. The Wild have the cap flexibility to sign long-term deals to both players as well as filling out their roster because they have roughly 40 million to play with in the next 2 offseasons.

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03-05-2012, 02:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Wild48 View Post
Why blow this team up? The biggest problem we had is only 1 of our top 10 prospects was available this season. That number will be way up next season.

I see no reason why the Wild can't outbid every team in the league on both Parise and Suter. Between the (aprox.) 20 million dollars in cap space available this offseason and the (aprox) 20 million dollars available after the 2012-13 season the Wild are going to be able to put the highest bid on both without crippling their finances.

Both of these players should be able to recognize that this roster without injuries was a playoff team, and the addition of a top tier forward and defenseman joining our crop of prospects that this can be a cup contender within 3 years.

Maybe I'm too optimistic about this team's future, but this Wild team already finished their blow up and rebuild years. It's time to build to a contender.
League maximum salary isn't enough to get players who want to win to sign on the Island, and a similar situation exists here. There's a lot more to signing a star free agent than just waving money at them.

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03-05-2012, 02:53 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
$20m in space as of now. Even with the cap projecting to go up, either Cullen would need to be traded or Bouchard would need to retire. Those are the only two "realistic" options, and I don't see either of them happening.
Quote:
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Mikko Koivu ($6.750m) / Zach Parise ($8.000m)
Devin Setoguchi ($3.000m) / Matt Cullen ($3.500m) / Mikael Granlund ($2.500m)
Nick Palmieri ($1.500m) / Kyle Brodziak ($2.833m) / Cal Clutterbuck ($1.400m)
Nick Johnson ($1.000m) / Darroll Powe ($1.066m) / Matt Kassian ($0.750m)
Pierre-Marc Bouchard ($4.080m)

DEFENSEMEN
Ryan Suter ($8.000m) / Tom Gilbert ($4.000m)
Marco Scandella ($0.845m) / Jared Spurgeon ($0.526m)
Steven Kampfer ($0.850m) / Nate Prosser ($0.825m)
Justin Falk ($0.605m)

GOALTENDERS
Niklas Backstrom ($6.000m) / Matthew Hackett ($0.900m)

BUYOUTS: Mark Parrish ($0.927m) / Cam Barker ($0.541m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $69,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,901,944; BONUSES: $480,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,398,056
I slipped Lats in for Granlund, then changed the name back. Most of that $2.5MM is probably unattainable bonuses as his actual salary would be around $950k + $525k signing bonus. If Butch isn't expected to play, we can put him on LTIR. If he is able to play, we can put Granlund in Houston for enough days to make any depth signings fit under the cap a la Brayden Schenn with Philly this season (they actually did it to make his bonuses unattainable to cut his cap hit down).

So yeah, we could fit both Suter and Parise under the cap at $8MM per.

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03-05-2012, 03:02 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
League maximum salary isn't enough to get players who want to win to sign on the Island, and a similar situation exists here. There's a lot more to signing a star free agent than just waving money at them.
I choose to believe that these players aren't stupid. They're not on islands. This team was disproportionately hit by injuries than the rest of the league. This was a playoff team before the injuries sunk the Wild.

The Wild are set up to be cup contenders for several years if they can land both players I mentioned. Going to the team closest to being cup-ready is not always the best long-term solution. Hossa is a good example of this.

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03-05-2012, 03:10 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I slipped Lats in for Granlund, then changed the name back. Most of that $2.5MM is probably unattainable bonuses as his actual salary would be around $950k + $525k signing bonus. If Butch isn't expected to play, we can put him on LTIR. If he is able to play, we can put Granlund in Houston for enough days to make any depth signings fit under the cap a la Brayden Schenn with Philly this season (they actually did it to make his bonuses unattainable to cut his cap hit down).

So yeah, we could fit both Suter and Parise under the cap at $8MM per.
At least it's fiscally possible. I still doubt Minnesota winds up with either Parise or Suter despite making a legitimate run at them. I guess I can only wind up pleasantly surprised.

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03-05-2012, 03:28 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by UMD Bob View Post
At least it's fiscally possible. I still doubt Minnesota winds up with either Parise or Suter despite making a legitimate run at them. I guess I can only wind up pleasantly surprised.
Yeah, I would be surprised if we ended up with either of them, but it won't be for a lack of cap room.

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Old
03-05-2012, 05:07 PM
  #34
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The time to rebuild was 3 seasons ago, but Leipold didn't want to so he hired a GM who believed the 09-10 Wild could be a playoff team. He tried for 2 seasons to build a playoff team, making some good and some bad UFA signings and trades. Didn't sacrifice a whole lot of the future but some.

The whole team aside from a couple players should be "available", though I don't think Fletcher will actively shop all of them he will listen. Not for draft picks though, so it wouldn't be a full rebuild.

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03-05-2012, 05:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by saywut View Post
The time to rebuild was 3 seasons ago, but Leipold didn't want to so he hired a GM who believed the 09-10 Wild could be a playoff team. He tried for 2 seasons to build a playoff team, making some good and some bad UFA signings and trades. Didn't sacrifice a whole lot of the future but some.

The whole team aside from a couple players should be "available", though I don't think Fletcher will actively shop all of them he will listen. Not for draft picks though, so it wouldn't be a full rebuild.
Other than trading a 25 year old Koivu (who was our leading scorer that year), there really wasn't a whole lot we could do 3 years ago to rebuild. We only had 2 guys that would a) garner interest from other teams, and b) get us something resembling fair value/upper echelon-type assets (Zidlicky & Johnsson) and I think their contracts were hinderances. Nolan, Brunette and Belanger wouldn't gotten us anything more than mid-round picks at best. Burns only played 59 games and had his supposed head issues, Bouchard got his concussion at the end of the year and Gaborik only played 17 games and was a UFA.

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03-05-2012, 05:41 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Other than trading a 25 year old Koivu (who was our leading scorer that year), there really wasn't a whole lot we could do 3 years ago to rebuild. We only had 2 guys that would a) garner interest from other teams, and b) get us something resembling fair value/upper echelon-type assets (Zidlicky & Johnsson) and I think their contracts were hinderances. Nolan, Brunette and Belanger wouldn't gotten us anything more than mid-round picks at best. Burns only played 59 games and had his supposed head issues, Bouchard got his concussion at the end of the year and Gaborik only played 17 games and was a UFA.
Its more about the approach. By signing Havlat/Zanon/Sykora/Cullen/etc we were a better team than we would've been. Trading for Kobasew cost us a 2nd, and made us a better team. Trading for Barker cost us a 1st round pick and our top d-man for nothing. I understand you've got to fill out a roster and hit the cap floor, but they were doable a different way.

Like I said, we didn't sacrifice much, at least a 1st and 2nd, and some spots in the last couple drafts(debatable if our picks would've actually been different).

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03-06-2012, 12:34 AM
  #37
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I underestimated the number of teams who have more cap space than Minnesota. Right now seventeen teams have more space for 2012-13, not ten. However, some of these teams operate closer to the cap floor and a handful of others will use a good chunk of their cap resigning players.

Players under contract next season are in parenthesis.

1. COL - $41m (10) - Key RFA/UFA: Duchene, O'Reilly, Johnson, Hejduk

2. NSH - $32.3m (12) - Key RFA/UFA: Suter, Weber, Kostitsyn, Wilson

3. STL - $28.8m (16) - Key RFA/UFA: Oshie, Perron, Langenbrunner, Colaiacovo, Jackman

4. PHX - $28.9m (17) - Key RFA/UFA: Whitney, Doan

5. WPG - $28.3m (13) - Key RFA/UFA: Kane, Wellwood, Pavelec

6. OTT - $27.6m (114) - Key RFA/UFA: Karlsson, Foligno, Kuba

7. NYI - $26.2m (15) - Key RFA/UFA: Parenteau

8. DAL - $23.8m (13) - Key RFA/UFA: Benn

9. EDM - $23.2m (14) - Key RFA/UFA: Smyth, Gagner, Barker

10. ANA - $23.2m (14) - Key RFA/UFA: Selanne, Koivu

11. FLA - $23m (17) - Key RFA/UFA: Versteeg

12. NJD - $22m (13) - Key RFA/UFA: Parise, Brodeur

13. CAR - $22m (17) - Key RFA/UFA: Tlusty

14. DET - $21.1m (17) - Key RFA/UFA: Hudler, Helm, Abdelkader, Lidstrom, Stuart

15. WAS - $19.9m (16) - Key RFA/UFA: Semin, Green, Wideman, Vokoun

16. MON - $19.6m (13) - Key RFA/UFA: Eller, Subban

17. CBJ - 19.4m (14) - Key RFA/UFA: They are bad.

18. MIN - $18.8m (15) - Key RFA/UFA: Latendresse, Harding

As squidz mentioned, Minnesota's cap space increases by $4.08m IF Bouchard retires or is placed on LTIR.

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03-06-2012, 03:44 AM
  #38
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We're pretty mjuch rebuiliding, we can't start trading away every good player we got because then we would suck HARD for the next 3 years. No. Wait for the young talented guys as long as we try to do anything with the guys we got atm

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03-06-2012, 03:57 AM
  #39
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Besides we really need vets to keep some kind of leadership in the group.

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03-06-2012, 10:32 PM
  #40
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We're 2 for 2 on penalty shots this year. Something to build on down the stretch?

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03-06-2012, 10:40 PM
  #41
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Injuries sucked the life out of this team, but looking at the recent history of some of these guys who have been injured a lot this season it shouldn't have been too big a surprise. Still it shouldn't be an excuse to go from being the best record in the league in the first half the season (or close to it) to being pretty much the worst team in the league. Something really has went rotten on this team ever since the Winnipeg game mid season.

Total rebuild no, I don't think we need that, but man we got to seriously take a look at things and fix whatever it is this team has broken.

I think I miss the Northstars more now, than when we had no hockey here for those years. Watching this team right now is downright painful.

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03-06-2012, 10:47 PM
  #42
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Injuries sucked the life out of this team, but looking at the recent history of some of these guys who have been injured a lot this season it shouldn't have been too big a surprise. Still it shouldn't be an excuse to go from being the best record in the league in the first half the season (or close to it) to being pretty much the worst team in the league. Something really has went rotten on this team ever since the Winnipeg game mid season.

Total rebuild no, I don't think we need that, but man we got to seriously take a look at things and fix whatever it is this team has broken.

I think I miss the Northstars more now, than when we had no hockey here for those years. Watching this team right now is downright painful.
NBC showed a graphic tonight. The Wild were best record in the league through December 10th. Since then? Dead last. Not joking.

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03-06-2012, 10:54 PM
  #43
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Oh h**l no! It's gonna get downright ugly before it gets better. If you want to do ANOTHER rebuild, you'll have to relive the past couple years all over again. As bad as this is, our prospect pool is fulling up. At some point, it will get better. Rebuilds are painful, but you have to stick with them. Can't toss it aside and hit the reset button AGAIN.

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03-06-2012, 11:17 PM
  #44
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dont completely tear it down, keep the top guys, koivu, heatley, seto, pmb, lats, and keep all the young prospects. trade who ever else but otherwise i feel we are in a rebuild right now, its just that we arent as bad as Columbus is this year. im predicting it going to be 2 or 3 years anyway before we can make a deep run and challenge for the cup

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03-06-2012, 11:31 PM
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As much as I like both lats and pmb we can't depend on them anymore, they do us no good being injured all the time, and using up cap space. If we can get anything for them, I wouldn't mind trading them for somebody we might actually get some play time out of. Dump a goalie too, at this point I wouldn't care which, Harding or Backs.

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03-06-2012, 11:34 PM
  #46
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Its more about the approach.
Exactly. We did have some pieces to sell, but the bigger issue was the "build now and for the future" approach by Fletcher. He learned the hard way that can't have your cake and eat it too. We've lost at least a year or two thanks to that.

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03-06-2012, 11:34 PM
  #47
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As much as I like both lats and pmb we can't depend on them anymore, they do us no good being injured all the time, and using up cap space. If we can get anything for them, I wouldn't mind trading them for somebody we might actually get some play time out of. Dump a goalie too, at this point I wouldn't care which, Harding or Backs.
Cap space is worthless if there's no one to use it on. Also, impending UFAs have almost no value.

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03-06-2012, 11:40 PM
  #48
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Exactly. We did have some pieces to sell, but the bigger issue was the "build now and for the future" approach by Fletcher. He learned the hard way that can't have your cake and eat it too. We've lost at least a year or two thanks to that.
And yet you want to completely clean house and start over?

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03-06-2012, 11:42 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Blakkmantis View Post
As much as I like both lats and pmb we can't depend on them anymore, they do us no good being injured all the time, and using up cap space. If we can get anything for them, I wouldn't mind trading them for somebody we might actually get some play time out of. Dump a goalie too, at this point I wouldn't care which, Harding or Backs.
My strategy: qualify lats, let Harding walk or trade his negotiating rights for a conditional 7th, and find some way to get something for Backstrom.

Sign a UFA goalie to a 2 year, 4-5m contract and bring Hackett up as the backup, with an expectation that he will start ~30ish games next year.

Is Theo UFA after this year again? What goalies are UFA this year?

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03-06-2012, 11:47 PM
  #50
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My strategy: qualify lats, let Harding walk or trade his negotiating rights for a conditional 7th, and find some way to get something for Backstrom.

Sign a UFA goalie to a 2 year, 4-5m contract and bring Hackett up as the backup, with an expectation that he will start ~30ish games next year.

Is Theo UFA after this year again? What goalies are UFA this year?
Theo LOVES Florida. He wanted desperately to move down there. He'll do everything possible to stay there.

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