it was bad in the sense that from a team need POV, he wasn't a great fit, not at that cost...
After the '08 season, where offensively we were among the top teams in the league, what hurt us in the playoffs was a lack of grit mostly up front.
Some try to argue that we didn't lose to the flyers b/c of the physical game, touting the "hits" stats as evidence, but those stats are often inflated by home rinks, & hits per say are not the sole measure of physical play/toughness.
the other aspect of that, is that Kost was the most physical player we had in our top-9... otherwise, most of the hitting/physical play was carried out by guys like Begin/Kostop/Lapierre. That's not a huge problem in theory, but in practice, our top-9, and especially our top-6, was way too "soft" to play against, and did not have the personnel to impose anything physically.
in the playoffs, when the whistles tighten up, and the scrums get a bit more chippy, not having guys who can crash the net & stick up for themselves is problematic, as is having to wait till your 4th line hits the ice to hit your opponent with any kind of physically imposing play in the offensive zone.
From my lens, at the time, in both the Philly & Boston series, it was clear as day light that we badly needed a top-6 player that could handle & dish out some of the rough stuff... Guillaume was clearly not going to be that guy, nor is/was Kost particularly effective in that role (yes, he throws a mean check, but he's not the guy who is sticking his nose in the scrums, handing out face-washes and keeping other tough customers at bay).
the tanguay trade, isolated, wasn't bad. He was/is a good player, a quality top-6 guy, and at the time probably worth the picks we gave up (especially if the plan was to have him be in town a long time)...
what happens?
he comes to town, delivers very well in the production department (until he got hurt, i can't see how Gainey wasn't happy with his production... more or less on par for what he had done the year before, but with ~2min less ice time/g & without an iginla-type talent to play with), gets hurt, shows that he's a bit on the soft side (surprise surprise... if gainey didn't expect that, he didn't do his homework), and then pooof...
not even an offer on the table from the habs.
1st/2nd for 3 months of a guy, who plays as expected, and THEN the brilliant GM realizes that he isn't the kind of player the team needed...
it was a bad trade from a team need/roster fit pov, at the time. some of us accurately pointed that out.
I remember a lot of backlash that Kesler was getting the same amount of money as Plekanec. I guess when your other centres are Connolly and Bozak you have no choice but to overpay Grabovski though.
You have a choice to not sign him. There's no way Grabo would have gotten this much on the open market. Leafs paid so much because they viewed him higher than any other teams, they like him more because they know what he can and cannot do. The most he would have gotten on the open market is maybe MAYBE 4 at the most. Leafs have now three center that are essentialy two lines-level centers. This signing is buying time nothing more.
it was bad in the sense that from a team need POV, he wasn't a great fit, not at that cost...
After the '08 season, where offensively we were among the top teams in the league, what hurt us in the playoffs was a lack of grit mostly up front.
Some try to argue that we didn't lose to the flyers b/c of the physical game, touting the "hits" stats as evidence, but those stats are often inflated by home rinks, & hits per say are not the sole measure of physical play/toughness.
the other aspect of that, is that Kost was the most physical player we had in our top-9... otherwise, most of the hitting/physical play was carried out by guys like Begin/Kostop/Lapierre. That's not a huge problem in theory, but in practice, our top-9, and especially our top-6, was way too "soft" to play against, and did not have the personnel to impose anything physically.
in the playoffs, when the whistles tighten up, and the scrums get a bit more chippy, not having guys who can crash the net & stick up for themselves is problematic, as is having to wait till your 4th line hits the ice to hit your opponent with any kind of physically imposing play in the offensive zone.
From my lens, at the time, in both the Philly & Boston series, it was clear as day light that we badly needed a top-6 player that could handle & dish out some of the rough stuff... Guillaume was clearly not going to be that guy, nor is/was Kost particularly effective in that role (yes, he throws a mean check, but he's not the guy who is sticking his nose in the scrums, handing out face-washes and keeping other tough customers at bay).
the tanguay trade, isolated, wasn't bad. He was/is a good player, a quality top-6 guy, and at the time probably worth the picks we gave up (especially if the plan was to have him be in town a long time)...
what happens?
he comes to town, delivers very well in the production department (until he got hurt, i can't see how Gainey wasn't happy with his production... more or less on par for what he had done the year before, but with ~2min less ice time/g & without an iginla-type talent to play with), gets hurt, shows that he's a bit on the soft side (surprise surprise... if gainey didn't expect that, he didn't do his homework), and then pooof...
not even an offer on the table from the habs.
1st/2nd for 3 months of a guy, who plays as expected, and THEN the brilliant GM realizes that he isn't the kind of player the team needed...
it was a bad trade from a team need/roster fit pov, at the time. some of us accurately pointed that out.
Great post....especially about the Boston and Philly series. It baffles me how some could not see that we were on the softer side....and then we....got...softer.
It took now for some fans to realize size and toughness was an issue.
I don't necessarily disagree, but you could make a case that we needed scoring depth. Enter the Lang and Tanguay trade, which pretty much kept us amongst the best teams in the league when Plekanec, SK and Higgins were having really rough years and Kovalev simply wasn't the same as the year prior.
We might have needed something else, but what we got was still extremely useful (albeit a tad costly at 2 2nd rounders and a first).
I don't necessarily disagree, but you could make a case that we needed scoring depth. Enter the Lang and Tanguay trade, which pretty much kept us amongst the best teams in the league when Plekanec, SK and Higgins were having really rough years and Kovalev simply wasn't the same as the year prior.
We might have needed something else, but what we got was still extremely useful (albeit a tad costly at 2 2nd rounders and a first).
i think part of what contributed to the struggles of S.Kost/Higgins (particularly Kost... Higgins created many of his own problems with poor off-ice habits) was the fact that they saw their ice-time/roles + opportunity to contribute offensively diminish directly as a result of bringing in Lang/Tanguay.
from a psyche pov, it couldn't be "positive" to those guys to see their GM go out and get offensive "reinforcements" after each of them had just had very good years (Kost a strong rookie showing & Higgins a career best season).
that we went out and got a top-6 LW (giving up as many assets as we did), with both being LW's, certainly couldn't have had a positive impact on them believing that the team had faith in them for the near future.
targetting a guy who clearly brought an element missing to the team (toughness) would have been one thing... but bringing in another soft-ish (or "skilled") winger sends a completely different message to the guys still there.
no way to statistically "prove it", but I don't doubt that it had a negative effect, especially on S.Kost, and we all saw how that later played itself out.
kind of thing that a GM who has a strong feel for the pulse of his team would have done a much better job managing...
Connolly and Marchand just fought. Now I have to find that Bruins fan's post who said something about Subban fighting Connolly.
Got ya...
Yea, you can tell Connoly didn't want to fight and I don't blame him given his concussion history.
The thing with PK is he doesn't really know how to fight. He tries to go for the knockout on every punch. I have no doubt that PK could destroy Marchand...and he will.
