Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
How is saying "I worked hard for what I have" insulting to anyone? Are you ****ing kidding me with this bull****?
Terrible article, absolute trash. I especially liked this part:
Quote:
In the adult world, we get asked to do things because **** needs to get done. It has nothing to do with fairness, it has nothing to do with judging you. It has nothing to do with you at all. There's a whole world out there, with people who need helping and projects that need accomplishing.
You're only being asked to pitch in because you have the resources. You're not a tall person who us dwarfs are jealously trying to cut down to size. You're a tall person being asked to get something down from a very tall shelf because nobody else can ****ing reach it.
What a ****ing clown. So now wealthy people are only being "asked" to contribute? Boy, that would be great if it were true. Unfortunately, its not, people are being forced to contribute significantly more than others.
There is a whole world out there, and its not my ****ing responsibility to take care of anybody else. If you feel so bad for these people, you take them in. Half of the ****ing country doesn't even pay income tax.
I love the tall guy analogy, it fits pretty well. Except its not really a tall guy, its a guy who built a ladder. The ladder guy grabs everything from the shelf and gives it to everyone else. Then everyone else whines and complains that they dont have their own ladder and are forced to rely on the ladder guy. Slaves to the ladder guy.
What a ****ing **** show of a society we have. 70% of the unemployed people I know are stupid, lazy ****** bags. They've been that way since I've known them. Almost everyone I know who works hard and is a kind individual is gainfully employed. Then I meet some dick working at Burger King who is rude to all his customers and he wonders why he is going nowhere in life. And apparently I should feel bad for working hard and being successful while this punk gets a check every month and sympathy from our country's leadership.
How is saying "I worked hard for what I have" insulting to anyone? Are you ****ing kidding me with this bull****?
Terrible article, absolute trash. I especially liked this part:
What a ****ing clown. So now wealthy people are only being "asked" to contribute? Boy, that would be great if it were true. Unfortunately, its not, people are being forced to contribute significantly more than others.
There is a whole world out there, and its not my ****ing responsibility to take care of anybody else. If you feel so bad for these people, you take them in. Half of the ****ing country doesn't even pay income tax.
I love the tall guy analogy, it fits pretty well. Except its not really a tall guy, its a guy who built a ladder. The ladder guy grabs everything from the shelf and gives it to everyone else. Then everyone else whines and complains that they dont have their own ladder and are forced to rely on the ladder guy. Slaves to the ladder guy.
What a ****ing **** show of a society we have. 70% of the unemployed people I know are stupid, lazy ****** bags. They've been that way since I've known them. Almost everyone I know who works hard and is a kind individual is gainfully employed. Then I meet some dick working at Burger King who is rude to all his customers and he wonders why he is going nowhere in life. And apparently I should feel bad for working hard and being successful while this punk gets a check every month and sympathy from our country's leadership.
Sorry to break up your killer rant, but this part made me laugh. 70% eh? How oddly precise. Do you keep a database of people you know and their employment situation and their personal predilections on hand just in case a relevant topic comes up on hf?
The income tax rhetoric is absurd, they have to pay regressive payroll tax and sales tax. Those on welfare make less than everyone else (as they should) and have to pay sales tax.
People who only focus on the income tax don't get the big picture; that we have one of the most regressive tax systems in the world.
Sorry to break up your killer rant, but this part made me laugh. 70% eh? How oddly precise. Do you keep a database of people you know and their employment situation and their personal predilections on hand just in case a relevant topic comes up on hf?
No, I was a math major and I generally think pretty numerically. I know about 30 people who are unemployed, and only a handful or so are actual decent human beings who studied hard and act like they want to be successful. The rest . . . not so much.
The income tax rhetoric is absurd, they have to pay regressive payroll tax and sales tax. Those on welfare make less than everyone else (as they should) and have to pay sales tax.
People who only focus on the income tax don't get the big picture; that we have one of the most regressive tax systems in the world.
Actually telling the truth about whether or not people pay taxes turns Whiskey's partisan/conservative/libertarian rant into a pretty lousy talking point, so you can see why he'd neglect to mention income taxes aren't the only taxes people pay.
The income tax rhetoric is absurd, they have to pay regressive payroll tax and sales tax. Those on welfare make less than everyone else (as they should) and have to pay sales tax.
People who only focus on the income tax don't get the big picture; that we have one of the most regressive tax systems in the world.
How do we have a regressive system when the top 10% of earners pay 90% of the burden? Sales tax is incredibly small in comparison to income tax. Why should I be required to pay both and not them? Why are our expectations of wealthy and even middle class people that much higher than our expectations of the poor? Should they not be expected to reach the same levels of others?
Actually telling the truth about whether or not people pay taxes turns Whiskey's partisan/conservative/libertarian rant into a pretty lousy talking point, so you can see why they'd neglect to mention income taxes aren't the only taxes people pay.
No, it doesn't. Obama keeps preaching that we should all play by the same rules. How can he preach that and subsribe to a progressive tax system at the same time? It is inherent attempt at playing favorites. I don't play by the same rules as half the country because I pay income tax, and a lot of it. I work for almost 4 months of the year for free. The marginal benefit I receive from the government services I finance is significantly lower than the marginal benefit that others receive who barely pay into it. They are a net negative to the system. But lets just keep throwing more money at the problem, its done great things for the wealth gap in this country over the past 30 years.
Sorry to break up your killer rant, but this part made me laugh. 70% eh? How oddly precise. Do you keep a database of people you know and their employment situation and their personal predilections on hand just in case a relevant topic comes up on hf?
Hmmm, I just lost a bunch of friends at my job. And they aren't unproductive or lazy...or **********.
What a ****ing **** show of a society we have. 70% of the unemployed people I know are stupid, lazy ****** bags. They've been that way since I've known them. Almost everyone I know who works hard and is a kind individual is gainfully employed. Then I meet some dick working at Burger King who is rude to all his customers and he wonders why he is going nowhere in life. And apparently I should feel bad for working hard and being successful while this punk gets a check every month and sympathy from our country's leadership.
Well, judging from your worldview, you probably hang out with a disproportional amount of ****** people.
But let me ask for curiosity's sake, what's your life story? How much money do you make? Who foot the bill for your education? What kind of family background do you come from?
I bet you $10,000 that everyone could afford to gas up both their Caddies, if they just applied good old fashioned elbow grease, isn't that right Pedro? (I mean, I don't really know if Pedro is your real name...it might be Maccacca for all I know...or care). But, good Lord (from another planet) if you can't enjoy your hard earned cash, if you can't enjoy the fruits of other people's labour, what the gosh darn heck is the meaning of life? As dear old dad used to say at the Club, what good is being a member if you can't keep people out? Especially, you know...New York style people, if you know Who I Mean!!!
There might be more than six things there, but I am too laz to count.
No, it doesn't. Obama keeps preaching that we should all play by the same rules. How can he preach that and subsribe to a progressive tax system at the same time? It is inherent attempt at playing favorites. I don't play by the same rules as half the country because I pay income tax, and a lot of it. I work for almost 4 months of the year for free. The marginal benefit I receive from the government services I finance is significantly lower than the marginal benefit that others receive who barely pay into it. They are a net negative to the system. But lets just keep throwing more money at the problem, its done great things for the wealth gap in this country over the past 30 years.
So what? I work for at least as long as you do - possibly longer, given the higher income taxes in Canada - for 'free' (your definition) each year, but I'm OK with it. I also receive marginal benefits from the government directly for that money but rather than turning into a miserable dick about it I understand some people have it worse than I do.
In the end, the government will get some money from these people via all sorts of other ways, especially sales/consumption taxes and it'll be a lot larger percentage of what they earn/bring in than what I pay. But anyway, go back to your libertarian fantasy world where you are doing the poor a favour by calling them names.
How is saying "I worked hard for what I have" insulting to anyone? Are you ****ing kidding me with this bull****?
Terrible article, absolute trash. I especially liked this part:
What a ****ing clown. So now wealthy people are only being "asked" to contribute? Boy, that would be great if it were true. Unfortunately, its not, people are being forced to contribute significantly more than others.
There is a whole world out there, and its not my ****ing responsibility to take care of anybody else. If you feel so bad for these people, you take them in. Half of the ****ing country doesn't even pay income tax.
I love the tall guy analogy, it fits pretty well. Except its not really a tall guy, its a guy who built a ladder. The ladder guy grabs everything from the shelf and gives it to everyone else. Then everyone else whines and complains that they dont have their own ladder and are forced to rely on the ladder guy. Slaves to the ladder guy.
What a ****ing **** show of a society we have. 70% of the unemployed people I know are stupid, lazy ****** bags. They've been that way since I've known them. Almost everyone I know who works hard and is a kind individual is gainfully employed. Then I meet some dick working at Burger King who is rude to all his customers and he wonders why he is going nowhere in life. And apparently I should feel bad for working hard and being successful while this punk gets a check every month and sympathy from our country's leadership.
You're a day trader right? So you are one of those who don't pay income tax correct, you would only be paying cap gains.
Well, judging from your worldview, you probably hang out with a disproportional amount of ****** people.
But let me ask for curiosity's sake, what's your life story? How much money do you make? Who foot the bill for your education? What kind of family background do you come from?
I come from a very middle class to lower middle class family. My mom was a nurse and my dad was a traveling salesman. I footed the bill for my own education. I went to public schools, made grades a priority where most people I know were more concerned with drinking and being "cool". I got scholarships thru college and grad school. I also worked through each. I make very good money for a young guy.
And I don't hang out with the people I mentioned, they are just people I know thru HS, college and acquaintances. Some of them were my friends until they started making stupid decisions.
You're a day trader right? So you are one of those who don't pay income tax correct, you would only be paying cap gains.
I have a real job, but I put in limit triggers in my trading account during the day (when I wake up) and trade full time on my flex days. My primary transactions are short term, tactical investments that range from 3 - 21 days.
I come from a very middle class to lower middle class family. My mom was a nurse and my dad was a traveling salesman. I footed the bill for my own education. I went to public schools, made grades a priority where most people I know were more concerned with drinking and being "cool". I got scholarships thru college and grad school. I also worked through each. I make very good money for a young guy.
And I don't hang out with the people I mentioned, they are just people I know thru HS, college and acquaintances. Some of them were my friends until they started making stupid decisions.
What country in the world do you think you could have grown up in that would have given you the opportunity to so easily move up from one class to the other that doesn't have a progressive tax system?
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History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
The real problem here isn't how much the rich are or are not being taxed. The problem is that the government keeps trying to find ways to fund their endless, unaffordable ******** instead of trying to figure out how to stop pouring the country's money down the toilet.
How do we have a regressive system when the top 10% of earners pay 90% of the burden?
with your background in math, you really should have realized that this statistic can also mean that the top 10% of earners have a significantly disproportionate amount of earnings.
The real problem here isn't how much the rich are or are not being taxed. The problem is that the government keeps trying to find ways to fund their endless, unaffordable ******** instead of trying to figure out how to stop pouring the country's money down the toilet.
How is saying "I worked hard for what I have" insulting to anyone? Are you ****ing kidding me with this bull****?
uh yeah it's not insulting in the context of saying that and nothing else. it's very insulting when you say it in response to people raising the issue of wealth inequality in america, or asking if it would be fair for people who make over $250,000 to pay an additional 4% income tax on every dollar earned above $250,000. then you're insinuating that the people have as much aren't working hard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils
Half of the ****ing country doesn't even pay income tax.
well let's break this down.
about a quarter of the people who aren't paying income tax are only receiving social security. so apparently you are angry at 90 year olds who aren't paying taxes on their social security benefits and aren't hitting the assembly line for 40 hours a week.
half of the people who aren't paying income tax fall in categories like this:
Quote:
A couple with two children earning less than $26,400 will pay no federal income tax this year because their $11,600 standard deduction and four exemptions of $3,700 each reduce their taxable income to zero. The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax.
a COUPLE WITH CHILDREN earning less than $26,400. that's pathetic. now i'm sure you'll say that they aren't trying or whatever, but the fact that people can be gainfully employed and be making that kind of cash is pathetic. wealthiest country in the world and you can be making less than 20 grand working a full time job.
so when you take into account low incomes that fall below the standard deduction, old people, and low-income families and children, you've got about 90% of the people who aren't paying income tax. what do you suggest these people do to start pulling their weight? they're already in a desperately poor situation; are we going to lift them up by starting to tax them 10 or 15 percent?
here's an idea, let's raise the minimum wage significantly so that a lot more people can afford to pay taxes. that's how it is where i live (australia) - the minimum wage is $15/hour, and people who work at burger king (or as we call it here, Hungry Jack's) make at least $15/hour. if you work 40 hours a week at $15/hour, you make about $32,000 per year. not great money, but enough that the government can take out a little slice without you starving to death. but oh wait, if america raises the minimum wage then every company in america will shut down and that's socialism anyway, so we can't do that.
face facts. people who aren't paying income tax can't afford to do so.
and here's something you really should have picked up from the article i posted. your position seems to be that everyone should work harder and do better for themselves. here's how it is in non-fantasy world. someone has to pick up your garbage when you put it out on the curb. someone has to pave the roads that you drive on to get to work. someone has to give you that burger when you go to burger king. someone had to teach little Whiskey growing up. when you go on a ski trip or travel to hawai'i to spend those hard-earned day trader dollars, someone needs to be working at the hotels and the ski lifts and bringing you a fruity drink with an umbrella in it. when you buy a nice house and a nice car, if you're lucky enough to afford it, you can pay someone to paint the house or redo the wiring or fix the carburetor. someone has to pick the fruit that you eat, or work in the factory that produces your cereal, then someone has that stuff to the supermarket you shop at, and someone at that supermarket has to put the fruit and the cereal out for you to pick up. your problem is, you're just thinking about this small handful of people you barely know who may or may not be living off the government. you don't recognize all the government- and privately-employed people who are working, without whom you couldn't enjoy the type of life you currently have.
there has always been a need for these people. there is currently a need for these people. there will always be a need for these people. not everyone can work for one of the Chosen Professions - day trader, bank exec, IT consultant, lawyer, doctor, golf pro, celebrity dog walker, whatever. in Whiskey's utopian society where everyone works really hard to get ahead, there will still be the grunts. and regardless of your experience with unemployed slackers, most of the people who are falling behind are not doing so because they're not trying. it's because the path they've chosen doesn't give them what it used to. so wake up and smell the coffee.
(and by the way, those coffee beans were picked by someone, then driven to a starbucks distribution center, ground by machines maintained by mechanics, driven to your local starbucks, and served to you by a barista)
Last edited by Ilkka Sinisalo: 03-06-2012 at 03:27 AM.
How do we have a regressive system when the top 10% of earners pay 90% of the burden?
Because they have all the money. Who do you think should be paying the burden, people who have a tough time paying rent or making their mortgage payments as it is? The tax system is grossly unfair - the fact that those at the top have everyone else over a barrel and keep siphoning off more and more of what's available every year is all the proof you need. The "they pay the lion's share of the burden" talking point is meant to distract the unwashed masses from the fact that they're being royally screwed by people with Mitt Romney's (pathetically low) tax bracket.
I know about 30 people who are unemployed, and only a handful or so are actual decent human beings who studied hard and act like they want to be successful. The rest . . . not so much.
sounds like you hang out with *******s.
...and by that, I mean day traders, not the unemployed. Never met a day trader that I would want to voluntarily spend 5 minutes with.
