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Who won the Johnson Trade

View Poll Results: Who "won" the trade?
Colorado 46 21.80%
St Louis 89 42.18%
Wait another year or two 76 36.02%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-06-2012, 02:53 AM
  #26
ZomboIsGod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
Johnson > Everybody else in the deal

There I am done elaborating.
Based on...??

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03-06-2012, 02:56 AM
  #27
TheJuxtaposer
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I like it better from Colorado's perspective.

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03-06-2012, 02:58 AM
  #28
bleedblue1223
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Just when we finally got to the point where both teams are very happy with the players that they got, it gets brought up again.

IMO, Johnson really needed a change in scenery. I wish him the best, and still think he will be really good, but it was clear, it wasn't going to reach his full potential in St. Louis. There was just too much pressure, and too many bad memories for him to overcome.

Shattenkirk was the type of defenseman that we desperately needed, so we are very happy with him. The exact same thing can be said for Colorado and EJ. They aren't that comparable, so saying which one is better, is just idiotic. They have both provided exactly what their needs them to provide.

McClement was expendable in St. Louis, and we needed a scorer. At the time Stewart looked like a great pickup, not so much this season. Stewart will most likely always be streaky, but I seriously doubt that he will be this ineffective for his career or even next season. Both teams are happy with who they got.

Colorado got Siemens in the draft and we drafted Rattie. Both are developing great. Since our need is scoring, Rattie is a huge bonus, which makes the swap in picks not bad at all. Our defense is great, and we have Cole and Fairchild almost ready, so we didn't need Siemens as much. I'm sure Colorado is happy with Siemens. Both teams got who they wanted and needed.

All in all, both teams are happy with each player that they got. No team was to win or lose. This trade is the definition of a win-win.

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03-06-2012, 03:02 AM
  #29
journeyman79
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
I like it better from Colorado's perspective.
If Siemens turns into something special and Rattie's an AHLer or just average this is definitely a Colorado win.

I think Johnson and Shatty are close to a wash and Stewart really doesn't fit well in the Blues's system.

McClement would excel under Hitch but his role would be pretty redundant with who we have now, so losing him was no big deal.

As a Blues fan I can honestly say I think a couple years from now this will be a win for Colorado but not by much.

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03-06-2012, 03:08 AM
  #30
bleedblue1223
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Johnson should end up the best player and IMO he will, although I don't think he would've been able to be that player if he stayed in St. Louis. Stewart with Stastny would've definitely been better than Stewart in St. Louis.

If we still had Johnson and he made the improvements that he has made this season, he would've been great with Hitchcock, but like I said, there were too many factors that would've prevented Johnson from reaching his full potential in St. Louis.

Being drafted #1, the golf cart incident, the reports of partying, and being passed over by Pietrangelo, was just too much for Johnson, as it would've been for most young players.

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03-06-2012, 03:11 AM
  #31
Kevin8se7en
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Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
EJ is a prime example, of why you always take a forward 1st overall in this era. With that said Shattenkirk is very good in his own right, while I find Stewart to have the same issues as his brother....lazyness plagues that family?
Fixed

Potential 1st Overall Dmen/Goalies since year 2000:
2000 - Rick Dipietro (1st)... Heatley (2nd), Gaborik (3rd)
2001 - N/A
2002 - Kari Lehtonen (2nd)... Nash (1st)
2003 - M-A Fleury (1st)... E.Staal (2nd)
2004 - N/A
2005 - Jack Johnson (3rd)... Ryan (2nd)
2006 - Erik Johnson (1st)... J.Staal (2nd), Toews (3rd), Backstrom (4th)
2007 - N/A
2008 - Drew Doughty (2nd)... Stamkos (1st)
2009 - Victor Hedman (2nd)... Tavares (1st)
2010 - N/A
2011 - Adam Larsson (4th)... Nugent-Hopkins (1st)

In 2003, Fleury was a good choice, but again, Staal was equally a great choice.
In 2005, Crosby was obviously hands down 1st overall, but some had JJ ahead of Ryan
In 2008, Stamkos was heavily favored but many suggested to draft Doughty based on team needs.
In every other instance, the forward is significantly better than the Dman who was picked, or could have been picked before (like some were saying Edmonton was gonna pick Larsson, lol)

Some will argue Pronger over Daigle, but Daigle was hands down the 1st overall pick that year. Im talking about when it's "close" and a guy could be taken over another.. that kind of thing.

End rant

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03-06-2012, 03:12 AM
  #32
journeyman79
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Johnson should end up the best player and IMO he will, although I don't think he would've been able to be that player if he stayed in St. Louis. Stewart with Stastny would've definitely been better than Stewart in St. Louis.

If we still had Johnson and he made the improvements that he has made this season, he would've been great with Hitchcock, but like I said, there were too many factors that would've prevented Johnson from reaching his full potential in St. Louis.

Being drafted #1, the golf cart incident, the reports of partying, and being passed over by Pietrangelo, was just too much for Johnson, as it would've been for most young players.
Honestly, I think trading away Johnson was also getting rid of an excuse that the team had that we'd be good when Johnson started playing like that no. 1 overall. I know that's what alot of us Blues fans thought. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual team was using that as a crutch.

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03-06-2012, 03:16 AM
  #33
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by journeyman79 View Post
Honestly, I think trading away Johnson was also getting rid of an excuse that the team had that we'd be good when Johnson started playing like that no. 1 overall. I know that's what alot of us Blues fans thought. I wouldn't be surprised if the actual team was using that as a crutch.
And the trade provided a huge wakeup call to the rest of the team. He was our first ever #1 overall pick, so if he can be traded, anyone can. Between that trade and Hitch taking over as coach, I think our player grew up a lot. The trade really was the definition of when simply making a trade was a good thing. It's not like we traded Johnson because he was a bad player. Also considering McClement was a leader in the locker room, he also provided a wakeup call by being traded.

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03-06-2012, 03:19 AM
  #34
bleedblue1223
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Also, at the time of the 2006 draft, Johnson was hands down, without a question, the #1 pick, which is also why the pressure for him to succeed was so high. He had all the tools of being the next Pronger at the time of the draft. He is starting to put it together this season, but Blues fans would've always expected him to be the next Pronger, which is just setting him up to fail.

Sorry for all the posts, it just isn't a simple issue/topic.

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Old
03-06-2012, 03:21 AM
  #35
TheJuxtaposer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman79 View Post
If Siemens turns into something special and Rattie's an AHLer or just average this is definitely a Colorado win.

I think Johnson and Shatty are close to a wash and Stewart really doesn't fit well in the Blues's system.

McClement would excel under Hitch but his role would be pretty redundant with who we have now, so losing him was no big deal.

As a Blues fan I can honestly say I think a couple years from now this will be a win for Colorado but not by much.
Let me clarify, I'm not an Avs fan. I actually have a soft spot for both the Avs and the Blues. I just think that Johnson is a good bit better than Shatty, and a much better fit in Colorado. I totally get why EJ was traded and Pietrangelo is the better player and had surpassed EJ, and Shatty is a better fit, but I am certain that EJ is the better player now and in the future.

I don't know what to think about Stewart, but he was not the right player for STL. Obviously at the time they did not know that Hitchcock would end up in STL, or they probably wouldn't have traded for him. Stewart is lazy, a bit of a floater, and a liability defensively. He doesn't really fit in with STL's blue-collar, hard-working two-way play. I honestly think they should flip Stewart for that elusive #2 LHD. If they can do that, than I will consider it a win for STL.

McClement is a very underrated part of this deal. I realize he was redundant for STL because they are so deep up front and have similar players in D'Agostini and Steen, but he has been awesome in Colorado and shouldn't be disregarded.

As for Siemens vs. Rattie, that has yet to be seen. In my opinion, we should throw out the notion that Rattie and Siemens were the parts traded. It was the 11th overall for the 32nd overall. If Siemens or Rattie busts, then you can blame the scouting department, but I don't think that can be considered when you evaluate who won the trade.

TL;DR: It was an amazing trade for both sides, everyone is happy.

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03-06-2012, 03:35 AM
  #36
bleedblue1223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Let me clarify, I'm not an Avs fan. I actually have a soft spot for both the Avs and the Blues. I just think that Johnson is a good bit better than Shatty, and a much better fit in Colorado. I totally get why EJ was traded and Pietrangelo is the better player and had surpassed EJ, and Shatty is a better fit, but I am certain that EJ is the better player now and in the future.

I don't know what to think about Stewart, but he was not the right player for STL. Obviously at the time they did not know that Hitchcock would end up in STL, or they probably wouldn't have traded for him. Stewart is lazy, a bit of a floater, and a liability defensively. He doesn't really fit in with STL's blue-collar, hard-working two-way play. I honestly think they should flip Stewart for that elusive #2 LHD. If they can do that, than I will consider it a win for STL.

McClement is a very underrated part of this deal. I realize he was redundant for STL because they are so deep up front and have similar players in D'Agostini and Steen, but he has been awesome in Colorado and shouldn't be disregarded.

As for Siemens vs. Rattie, that has yet to be seen. In my opinion, we should throw out the notion that Rattie and Siemens were the parts traded. It was the 11th overall for the 32nd overall. If Siemens or Rattie busts, then you can blame the scouting department, but I don't think that can be considered when you evaluate who won the trade.

TL;DR: It was an amazing trade for both sides, everyone is happy.
Good breakdown. I'm glad to see an outsider understand why each side made the trade, and why each side can "win" the trade.

We do miss McClement's faceoff ability this season though. He was skilled enough to take the faceoff and still be on the ice if we needed a late goal, unlike Nichol. He might not put up a ton of points, but is definitely more than functional in the offensive zone.

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03-06-2012, 03:39 AM
  #37
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no matter what else happens with regard to the trade, I will always miss Chris Stewart

PARDON ME WHILE I BEAT YOUR ASS

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03-06-2012, 03:45 AM
  #38
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi View Post
PARDON ME WHILE I BEAT YOUR ASS
Well why did he leave that attitude in Colorado? If you could send that over to Scottrade Center, I would greatly appreciate it.

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03-06-2012, 03:58 AM
  #39
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Even though Stewart is slumping this season, I still think STL comes out as the winners.

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03-06-2012, 05:00 AM
  #40
DuckJet
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I say STL.

Johnson>Shattenkirk
McClement<<Stewart
Siemens<Rattie

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03-06-2012, 05:22 AM
  #41
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I personally think Shattenkirk will be the best player in the deal down the road. But that's just me. You can't really say now, because D's don't hit their prime(maybe offensively but not overall) this early. Voted "Wait another year or two" but it's more like three or four.

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03-06-2012, 05:25 AM
  #42
bleedblue1223
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there really should be a tie option

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03-06-2012, 05:34 AM
  #43
ted1971
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St. Louis got 2 out of the best 3 players in the deal.

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03-06-2012, 05:52 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Well why did he leave that attitude in Colorado? If you could send that over to Scottrade Center, I would greatly appreciate it.
it disappeared when he broke his hand beating the crap out of some wild player

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03-06-2012, 06:05 AM
  #45
bleedblue1223
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it disappeared when he broke his hand beating the crap out of some wild player
What a pansy, doesn't he know the more scars you have, the more women want you. We all know he can use all the help he can get.

Seriously though, I don't know if it was the fight or the suspension, but his fire is gone. Hopefully he finds it during the offseason. He desperately needs some motivation.

The Blues win the trade, simply because Stewart can no longer light us up. He use to absolutely dominate us. I want that Stewart back.

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03-06-2012, 06:39 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
What a pansy, doesn't he know the more scars you have, the more women want you. We all know he can use all the help he can get.

Seriously though, I don't know if it was the fight or the suspension, but his fire is gone. Hopefully he finds it during the offseason. He desperately needs some motivation.

The Blues win the trade, simply because Stewart can no longer light us up. He use to absolutely dominate us. I want that Stewart back.
I wish Edmonton would have given us a #1 D-man for Arnason

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03-06-2012, 08:20 AM
  #47
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Let this topic die already. It insults me that another Avs fan would drag this topic back up after the crap we went through at the trade, post trade, the entire season and (this is a bold prediction ) 5 years from now.

EJ is who we needed. Siemens is who we needed.

It doesn't matter that we gave up some great players, they were redundant on our team going forward. Rattie was a good late pick for St. Louis, not a deal breaker nor an asset you would expect to get with every 2nd round pick.

We acquired Sgarbossa for more redundant players on our team who more than makes up for the 'loss of Rattie'.

Overall it doesn't matter who won the trade, in Colorado's eyes we got what we needed and our team is better for it.

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03-06-2012, 08:54 AM
  #48
PeterAngelo
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Colorado won. St.Louis won. Rest of the west lost.

Pretty much how I view this trade.

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03-06-2012, 08:58 AM
  #49
CASUAL KEV
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Based on...??
draft status

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03-06-2012, 09:08 AM
  #50
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I don't even care that St. Louis is leading this poll, being an Avalanche fan and all.

Watching all 4 of these players in the last 2 years, in my opinion, Colorado has won this trade.

Johnson = Shattenkirk (in terms of needs)
McClement > Stewart (for the roles they were supposed to play)

The deal breaker is the draft picks. No one can clearly say who won until we see what those kids can do.

Give it another couple years.

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