So, we all understand that this team was ripped to shreds, and we are re-buidling this team particuarly through the draft. Yes, re-building a team into a winning NHL team does not happen over night.
But how long can we keep forgiving our place in the standings, before we say, you know what, our problem isn't our youth or inexperience, it's other factors (such as coaching or certain veteran players)?
We have had two 1st overall picks, the 2 time MVP of the Canadian Juniors, the MVP of the Swedish Junior team, and pretty solid goaltender in Khabby.
Ken Hitchock quote before the most recent blues vs oilers game:
Reporter: "Are you telling your players to not look past this Oiler team, regardless of where they are in the standings?" Ken: "We all know that Edmonton is under a rebuilding phase, and they have oustanding offensive talent with an incredible future. But I don't know if rebuilding can be the recurring theme for this franchise. Our team is almost exactly the same in terms of average age. It comes to how well you manage the puck. If you can manage the puck responsibly, everything else will fall into place."
I would give my left pinky for Ken to come and coach our team
So, we all understand that this team was ripped to shreds, and we are re-buidling this team particuarly through the draft. Yes, re-building a team into a winning NHL team does not happen over night.
But how long can we keep forgiving our place in the standings, before we say, you know what, our problem isn't our youth or inexperience, it's other factors (such as coaching or certain veteran players)?
We have had two 1st overall picks, the 2 time MVP of the Canadian Juniors, the MVP of the Swedish Junior team, and pretty solid goaltender in Khabby.
Ken Hitchock quote before the most recent blues vs oilers game:
Reporter: "Are you telling your players to not look past this Oiler team, regardless of where they are in the standings?" Ken: "We all know that Edmonton is under a rebuilding phase, and they have oustanding offensive talent with an incredible future. But I don't know if rebuilding can be the recurring theme for this franchise. Our team is almost exactly the same in terms of average age. It comes to how well you manage the puck. If you can manage the puck responsibly, everything else will fall into place."
I would give my left pinky for Ken to come and coach our team
I was betting on us battling for a playoff spot this year but falling short. Dispite that I am not too upset over our results this year, we saw the emergence of RNH and Petry. Eberle showed that he'll be a top 10 scoring guy in the league for years to come and Hall is spending more time on his skates instead of his ass this year (which is bad news for our opponents).
Honorary mentions goes to Gagner who could very well be our 2nd line centre and Lander as solid 4th line centre.
There are still some things missing to straighening up this ship but from my point of view it's not all bad. Next year my expectations will be about the same as this year, i.e. battling for playoff, but if we tank again I'll be 100 times more pissed off than I am now...
EDIT: Oh, and Klefbom! His running over the ref after scoring a goal in his last game is definitely something we could need over here! More ref hits for the people!
So, we all understand that this team was ripped to shreds, and we are re-buidling this team particuarly through the draft. Yes, re-building a team into a winning NHL team does not happen over night.
But how long can we keep forgiving our place in the standings, before we say, you know what, our problem isn't our youth or inexperience, it's other factors (such as coaching or certain veteran players)?
Good point. Want to get good now?
Start moving pieces. You have 3 kids that would get you a mammoth return, decide which one stays, and move the other two, along with picks and other prospects, and low and be hold you're the Calgary Flames for the next 4 years.
How long does it take? I don't know, I would think longer then 2 years.
After this year rebuilding is no longer an excuse IMO.
I'm not saying that we'll make the playoffs or even be a playoff bubble team next year, but there's no excuse for us to get a top 5 pick next year. If we pick top 5 again.... jeez our bottom 4 d would need to be even worse than they were this year and that's impossible to imagine at this point.
Start moving pieces. You have 3 kids that would get you a mammoth return, decide which one stays, and move the other two, along with picks and other prospects, and low and be hold you're the Calgary Flames for the next 4 years.
How long does it take? I don't know, I would think longer then 2 years.
I object to the claim made by the media that the Oilers been rebuilding for 2 years. We will end up being bottom 3 in the league (maybe bottom two) for three years. How on earth is this year 2 of a rebuild? That would mean we weren't rebuilding when we finished dead last in the league. What's more, as of May, we will have been a bottom 11 team in the league for 5 years. That's a long time.
Apart from this minor quibble, we obviously shouldn't be moving Eberle, Hall, or RNH, but I do think that constantly trotting out the excuse of rebuild is not good for the team. Having higher expectations is a good thing. If it takes firing Tambo or Renney, or scratching Smyth, then so be it, but I think it would great if the message was sent that the Oilers expect to be better than 29th.
What I really object to is lately this harping on the lack of penalties to deflect criticism. Honestly? The refs? The players should in no way begin thinking that it's fine that they suck because the refs are against them. It's a looser attitude.
We've got the makings of some true elite players, and the talent is showing through in places you'd expect(powerplay), and getting killed in areas that experience and maturity dominates(5x5, defensive efforts, systems play).
While the kids are showing some great progress, they are also getting minimal shelter from what is likely the worst veteran core in the NHL. Bit-player vets in over their heads being asked to play prime defensive roles, hold over vets from the pre-rebuild years of low organizational standards, right down to declining and/or outright ineffective vets, too many problems to count and a long way from being resolved.
Have to remember how bad this team was the last two years. To put it in perspective - Belanger and the other offseason aquisitions despite being quite bad this year, are massive upgrades over the players they replaced... you simply don't recover from that kind lack of talent in a couple of short years. Expecially not in a city where the UFA market was never an option even before they became the league laughing-stock.
It's going to be a few more years yet too. They might take a step next year if they sign someone like Suter, but a more realistic outlook is a few more incremental upgrade signings and another couple of tough years. This team still has too many gaping holes in it that can't be fixed overnight without drastic measures. Suspect goaltending, weak vets, no high end defensive prospects combined bottom 5 defense, they just simply aren't even close to being consistently competitive yet.
True, but we're at the point where there isn't much we could draft that we could jump right into our line-up.
Our blueline is hurting the most at this point. If we draft Murray or not we're still waiting for young kids to develop and grow into their top 4 defensive positions.
Maybe we draft a forward... and if we do that just gives Tambolini another excuse to tank for another year so that we can go out and draft a stud d-man and move forward with incredible confidence that the rebuild is over.
Screw drafting a forward. Draft Murray and do everything possible to be a competitive team even if that means firing Renney.
Guys like Magnus, Hartikainen, Lander and Omark should be ready for bigger roles next year. Well, at least Magnus, Hartikainen and Lander.
After next season guys like Hamilton and Pitlick should be fighting for a job and hopefully at that point Hemsky gets pushed out of the organization. And *poof* we're not small anymore. *poof* we're fighting for 4th-6th in the West.
So, we all understand that this team was ripped to shreds, and we are re-buidling this team particuarly through the draft. Yes, re-building a team into a winning NHL team does not happen over night.
But how long can we keep forgiving our place in the standings, before we say, you know what, our problem isn't our youth or inexperience, it's other factors (such as coaching or certain veteran players)?
We have had two 1st overall picks, the 2 time MVP of the Canadian Juniors, the MVP of the Swedish Junior team, and pretty solid goaltender in Khabby.
Ken Hitchock quote before the most recent blues vs oilers game:
Reporter: "Are you telling your players to not look past this Oiler team, regardless of where they are in the standings?" Ken: "We all know that Edmonton is under a rebuilding phase, and they have oustanding offensive talent with an incredible future. But I don't know if rebuilding can be the recurring theme for this franchise. Our team is almost exactly the same in terms of average age. It comes to how well you manage the puck. If you can manage the puck responsibly, everything else will fall into place."
I would give my left pinky for Ken to come and coach our team
First bolded - you got it right there, and it'll take more than two years - remember...it's a 6 year plan and this has been said many times.
Second bolded - I would absolutely have to disagree with this statement.
Third bolded - I think this is a case of penis envy by Ken.
We should start to see some improvement next year, and finally a push to actually make the playoffs. We still need some more pieces to do this however, and it will take some work in the off season or draft to get this done.
All going according to plan, organization is improving at the NHL and AHL level and many of the drafted picks are looking promising in Junior as well.
slow and steady 4-6 year rebuild plan" implemented by Tambo/Lowe an A+ so far.
Sure some of the peasants are revolting in the villages... but they'll be appeased in time as further small improvements are made each season until everyone is basking annually in the sparkly gleam of multiple Stanley Cups... well that's the rainbows and sunshine dream anyway... TBD if it actually has that fairy tale ending... but so far, so good.
Last edited by nexttothemoon: 03-06-2012 at 08:42 AM.
I don't like the average age analogy at all. The core of this team lies in the hands of kids. We have a bunch of veterans who raise the average age a whole lot (Khabby, Smyth and Sutton all over 35). There's a huge gap there. Yeah, on top of that, they provide next to nothing most nights. LOL.
The Oilers are still 2-3 years behind on St. Louis. They have fixed their goaltending, coaching and found a stud blueliner. Who is in their core? They're all over 22 right? I think Pietrangelo is 22. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's probably their YOUNGEST roster player. And he's a damn stud. That's already older than the Oilers top 3 forwards.
With that said, I honestly thought they would be 10-12th this season. Maybe 7th-8th place next season. Fight for the for home ice in 2013-2014. Then contenders in 2014-2015. I was obviously wrong for this season. hahaha.
Hopefully they can fight for a playoff spot next season though. It's about time.
I don't like the average age analogy at all. The core of this team lies in the hands of kids. We have a bunch of veterans who raise the average age a whole lot (Khabby, Smyth and Sutton all over 35). There's a huge gap there. Yeah, on top of that, they provide next to nothing most nights. LOL.
The Oilers are still 2-3 years behind on St. Louis. They have fixed their goaltending, coaching and found a stud blueliner. Who is in their core? They're all over 22 right? I think Pietrangelo is 22. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he's probably their YOUNGEST roster player. And he's a damn stud. That's already older than the Oilers top 3 forwards.
With that said, I honestly thought they would be 10-12th this season. Maybe 7th-8th place next season. Fight for the for home ice in 2013-2014. Then contenders in 2014-2015. I was obviously wrong for this season. hahaha.
Hopefully they can fight for a playoff spot next season though. It's about time.
I agree. It's important to have accomplished vets on any team, but there's no point in having accomplished vets which are unable to do anything.
Look at Mark Recchi. He was long in the tooth on that Bruins team last year, but he was still an effective player. He could throw the average hit and he was able to consistently contribute offensively when it mattered most.
Horcoff, Smyth, Sutton aren't going to contribute like that. Nothing like that at all. I'm not even sold on Hemsky being that kind of guy even if he stays healthy.
If Smyth wants to come back next year I'd offer him 1 year@ 3 million. If he wants any more we can afford to let him walk and let Hartikainen play third line minutes next season. Who knows, maybe Renney can give him top six minutes over Petrell.
If the new CBA allows each team to buy out a single contract without it counting against the cap Edmonton can buy out Horcoff and give third line minutes full time to Lander. Yes, that's looking damn young, but I see a lot more usefulness in Hartikainen and Lander playing third line minutes than Smyth and Horcoff now and Later.
If Edmonton wants to pick up a vet they can wait for a 2nd or 3rd line winger who's got size, tenacity, offensive upside and experience.
I agree. It's important to have accomplished vets on any team, but there's no point in having accomplished vets which are unable to do anything.
Look at Mark Recchi. He was long in the tooth on that Bruins team last year, but he was still an effective player. He could throw the average hit and he was able to consistently contribute offensively when it mattered most.
Horcoff, Smyth, Sutton aren't going to contribute like that. Nothing like that at all. I'm not even sold on Hemsky being that kind of guy even if he stays healthy.
If Smyth wants to come back next year I'd offer him 1 year@ 3 million. If he wants any more we can afford to let him walk and let Hartikainen play third line minutes next season. Who knows, maybe Renney can give him top six minutes over Petrell.
If the new CBA allows each team to buy out a single contract without it counting against the cap Edmonton can buy out Horcoff and give third line minutes full time to Lander. Yes, that's looking damn young, but I see a lot more usefulness in Hartikainen and Lander playing third line minutes than Smyth and Horcoff now and Later.
If Edmonton wants to pick up a vet they can wait for a 2nd or 3rd line winger who's got size, tenacity, offensive upside and experience.
Wow, just wow.
You do realize Smyth is tied for third on this team in points? You really think that's useless?
You do realize Smyth is tied for third on this team in points? You really think that's useless?
Don't get me wrong. His play blew me away at the beginning of the year, but his production has cooled off big time. I'm impressed at how he's managed to stay healthy, but apparently he's playing the maximum minutes he's capable of and the way he plays now he hardly ever punishes the opposition physically.
If we're going to have a checking line as opposed to a 3rd scoring line I want that checking line to go out and punish the opposition with authority. Neither Smyth nor Horcoff will do that for us.
****Also:*** Of course Smyth is tied for 3rd in points. If you disregard Horcoff, he's logged far more ice time than all of our other forwards. Where do you think he's stand in the rankings offensively if he was actually getting bottom 9 minutes?
Funny how your 3rd line can log more minutes than your 1st or second line.
Don't get me wrong. His play blew me away at the beginning of the year, but his production has cooled off big time. I'm impressed at how he's managed to stay healthy, but apparently he's playing the maximum minutes he's capable of and the way he plays now he hardly ever punishes the opposition physically.
If we're going to have a checking line as opposed to a 3rd scoring line I want that checking line to go out and punish the opposition with authority. Neither Smyth nor Horcoff will do that for us.
Are we going to? And you really think putting Lander and Hartsi in there is going to make us better? That's a step backwards. You don't make roster space for those guys until they prove they are ready to steal the job. Although I do buy out Horcoff if given the chance, but I replace him with a Stoll or something.
Also Smyth 5 points past 8gp. Not too shabby if you ask me.
I love these 'we were rebuilding last week, and we're still rebuilding this week and I'm sick of it threads'
3 years ago we pretty much said to the world we are rebuilding and it will probably take 5 years. My math says....uhhh....carry the one...uhhhhh....that leaves 2 yrs left?
That's how it was last week, that's how it will be next week...I'm pretty sure we didn't pass through some space/time vortex and so 2 years didn't pass this week as far as I know...
We are getting better, and next year we will be better too...the year after that better and so on and so on.
Don't want to rebuild...cheer the flames. I think that is even thier motto.
Rebuild is the ultimate excuse for crap play, there are more teams than the Blues who have shed that label...see the Senators.
It can be a valid excuse for about two years then the jig is up. It is especially not valid with the Oilers because the best players on the team are 22 and under. The vets have dragged the team down.
I have no huge problem with people alluding to a rebuild as a reason for a poor record as long as they expand on it and also acknowledge the lousy play of some vets, the poor job of the gm of filling holes via free agency and the fact that it is not some magic formula where it is okay to improve by 3 wins a year.
Are we going to? And you really think putting Lander and Hartsi in there is going to make us better? That's a step backwards. You don't make roster space for those guys until they prove they are ready to steal the job. Although I do buy out Horcoff if given the chance, but I replace him with a Stoll or something.
Also Smyth 5 points past 8gp. Not too shabby if you ask me.
Yes, I'm checking out the TSN webpage as well. LOL
Nonetheless. We've been losing a fair number of games lately, so those numbers he's putting up haven't really gotten us any kind of positive result in the end.
If we're going to lose we should lose giving Eberle, Hall, Gagner and Hopkins 18:30+ per game. 19:00 wouldn't sound unreasonable if we're not doing back to backs.
Notice how Smyth is on pace for 52 hits? Same number for Horcoff. That's pathetic.
2/3 of your checking line, which logs more minutes than any of your other forwards being on pace for a combined 104 hits. That's pathetic.
Yes, I'm checking out the TSN webpage as well. LOL
Nonetheless. We've been losing a fair number of games lately, so those numbers he's putting up haven't really gotten us any kind of positive result in the end.
If we're going to lose we should lose giving Eberle, Hall, Gagner and Hopkins 18:30+ per game. 19:00 wouldn't sound unreasonable if we're not doing back to backs.
Notice how Smyth is on pace for 52 hits? Same number for Horcoff. That's pathetic.
2/3 of your checking line, which logs more minutes than any of your other forwards being on pace for a combined 104 hits. That's pathetic.
And what's the better option? Play 2 kids that have struggled this year in their place?
If you can find those smash mouth guys fine, but putting Hartsi and Lander is going to be worse.
Lander maybe, but not Hartikainen. He's the exact kinda beast I want on my third line. Throws tons of checks, has some offensive upside and stays out of the penalty box. He's surely be a billion times better in our top 6 than Petrel.
On top of that we could go out and actually acquire a useful vet. One whom can play his position properly. I know, that's probably too much to be asking.
