Just looking at the Bruins last season they have pretty much every player spend at least 1 year in the AHL or more. The only guys who didn't were Lucic,Seguin and Horton.
It is weird that people think an AHL team is NOT important when the genesis of the current Oiler team comes from no developmental system in place for a number of years
Really like who?
Bergeron spent a year in the AHL, only reason why was the lockout. Several of there lesser depth players like Marchand got a year or two but hey the Oilers sent Stoll and Torres to the AHL as well so it's not like we were avoiding the A. You rarely develop top end talent by having them play several years in the minors, defencemen are the possible exception.
I'm not saying the AHL is meaningless but if you arent drafting decent players to send to the AHL then it wont matter how good your team down there is doing. On top of that it's not necessarily winning AHL teams that develop talent so I dont think the Barons are any proof that this organization has turned their development around yet. When we see any players come up to the NHL who developed in the A maybe we'll have something we can hang our hat on, right now it just looks like Katz has spent some money to get a veteran team.
Are you suggesting that this is a valid case for improvement after being the worst team (or 2nd worst) in the NHL for the past 3 seasons?
1 more win in 16 less games is definitely improvement.
#1 PP in the league is a huge improvement.
#15 PK is a huge improvement.
-23 goal differential compared to -76 is a huge improvement.
RNH, Hall, Eberle, Petry and Smid have all taken huge leaps in their development.
Gagner has improved.
Only Paajarvi from last years' team has regressed and if you want to include Omark but there has been improvements in many areas.
The standings might not reflect big improvements although if the Oilers get in the 70+ point plateau then that would be a solid improvement but most signs are pointing upward otherwise.
1 more win in 16 less games is definitely improvement.
Is it? History suggests that it would be foolish to assume that 16 extra games will translate into anything substantial by the time the season ends. This is still a bad hockey team.
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#1 PP in the league is a huge improvement.
#15 PK is a huge improvement.
-23 goal differential compared to -76 is a huge improvement.
RNH, Hall, Eberle, Petry and Smid have all taken huge leaps in their development.
Gagner has improved.
Only Paajarvi from last years' team has regressed and if you want to include Omark but there has been improvements in many areas.
The standings might not reflect big improvements but most signs are pointing upward otherwise.
The PP and PK improvements are a result of different coaching strategies as well as the addition of 1 draft pick.
The issue with this team is 5x5 play and thats the primary reason the standings haven't changed all that much.
What has Tambo done to improve the team in terms of 5x5 strength?
I didn't side step anything...I get your position.
You consider a winning a couple of games more than the last 2 seasons an improvement.
I don't because it isn't meaningful in any way.
it's negligible in terms of improvement but that appears to be good enough for you.
Where did I say this was good enough for me in that post? Anywhere?
Edmonton is on pace for 32 wins this year. In 2010-2011, we had 25 wins. If we maintain this pace, we will see a 7 win improvement from last year. Last time I checked, a couple means 2. Also, our goal differential last year was 76. This year, we are on pace for a goal differential of 29. That is improvement.
Is it? History suggests that it would be foolish to assume that 16 extra games will translate into anything substantial by the time the season ends. This is still a bad hockey team.
The PP and PK improvements are a result of different coaching strategies as well as the addition of 1 draft pick.
The issue with this team is 5x5 play and thats the primary reason the standings haven't changed all that much.
What has Tambo done to improve the team in terms of 5x5 strength?
It's about pace, if the team continues on the same pace then they will get in that 70 point range which will roughly be an 8-12 point improvement over last season, that's improvement.
The PP and PK improvements are due a lot to young players getting a lot better (namely the big 3) moreso than any brilliant coaching strategies although i will also give the coaches some credit for the improved special teams.
Same with the PK.... Smyth, Belanger and Sutton have all contributed to a better PK along with huge improvements from Petry and Smid. Those veterans were brought in by Tambellini, the man that you insinuate hasn't brought in anybody that improves the roster.
The goal differential is hugely improved from last year. I don't have the 5 on 5 GF and GA numbers in front of me compared to last season but i would have to think that they are improved from last season 5 on 5 but of course that is also somewhat subjective because the numbers don't always tell the whole story.
There are improvements accross the board. Of course, it's hard not to improve on last seasons' ineptitude but there have been a lot of improvements nonetheless. You can see just by watching the team that they are much improved from last season. They still have their horrible stretches but those are much more few and far between compared to last season.
Are you suggesting that this is a valid case for improvement after being the worst team (or 2nd worst) in the NHL for the past 3 seasons?
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101
Why is there always a "intrepretation" of a simple sentence on Hockey's Future?
It all comes down to expectation. They are a little below my expectation for the year but not a hell of a lot. They have shown improvement.
Sorry, but I believe the massive expectations by some on this board were unrealistic.
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Originally Posted by guymez
What interpretation are you referring to? I asked a question for clarity...was that out of line?
This is an interesting bit of irony...you accuse me of wrongful interpretation and then you proceed to do the same thing to me.
What are these massive expectations you are accusing me of?
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101
Didn't accuse you of anything. I said "some" on this board. Where did I say you?
Surely you can see how I thought your post was inclusive to me?
In any event my expectation was that there would be an improvement in the only thing that really reflects a tangible improvement...the standings.
This team should be judged by its progress relative to the rest of the League.
Its gone beyond consolation prizes for me...I expect results relative to the reality of the Western Conference at this point.
I expected this team to be 10th - 12th in the West this year and according to the rhetoric from Management they expected that or better.
This season has been a failure even by Oilers Management standards.
Where did I say this was good enough for me in that post? Anywhere?
Edmonton is on pace for 32 wins this year. In 2010-2011, we had 25 wins. If we maintain this pace, we will see a 7 win improvement from last year. Last time I checked, a couple means 2. Also, our goal differential last year was 76. This year, we are on pace for a goal differential of 29. That is improvement.
Surely you can see how I thought your post was inclusive to me?
In any event my expectation was that there would be an improvement in the only thing that really reflects a tangible improvement...the standings.
This team should be judged by its progress relative to the rest of the League.
Its gone beyond consolation prizes for me...I expect results relative to the reality of the Western Conference at this point.
I expected this team to be 10th - 12th in the West this year and according to the rhetoric from Management they expected that or better.
This season has been a failure even by Oilers Management standards.
Exactly how did you think we were going to make that big of an improvement coming into this season?
Bergeron spent a year in the AHL, only reason why was the lockout. Several of there lesser depth players like Marchand got a year or two but hey the Oilers sent Stoll and Torres to the AHL as well so it's not like we were avoiding the A. You rarely develop top end talent by having them play several years in the minors, defencemen are the possible exception.
I'm not saying the AHL is meaningless but if you arent drafting decent players to send to the AHL then it wont matter how good your team down there is doing. On top of that it's not necessarily winning AHL teams that develop talent so I dont think the Barons are any proof that this organization has turned their development around yet. When we see any players come up to the NHL who developed in the A maybe we'll have something we can hang our hat on, right now it just looks like Katz has spent some money to get a veteran team.
Spezza went to the AHL for a year, Getzlaf and Perry played a quarter season, Bobby Ryan played 3/4's of a season down there, Martin St. Louis spent 3 seasons, Savard spent 3/4's of a season, Parise spent a season down in the A, and I'm sure theres more that just the names I could think of.
They are also a cap-savvy team delivering the most bang for their buck. The Oilers are basically the opposite on that score; still are.
It's not not important. It's just not as important as some make it out to be. I mean, one poster earlier suggested that merely having an AHL team was sufficient grounds to consider Tambo a better GM than Lowe. That's just nuts IMO.
Having an AHL team is better than not having one, but I'd argue that's setting the bar for success mighty damn low.
The bar was pretty damm low when Lowe was in charge with EIG at the head
Surely you can see how I thought your post was referring to me?
In any event my expectation was that there would be an improvement in the only thing that really reflects a tangible improvement...the standings.
This team should be judged by its progress relative to the rest of the League.
Its gone beyond consolation prizes for me...I expect results relative to the reality of the Western Conference at this point.
I expected this team to be 10th - 12th in the West this year and according to the rhetoric from Management they expected that or better. This season has been a failure.
I expected them to finish 12th but put a caveat of if healthy. A team that has so many weaknesses does not have the depth to deal with a lot of injuries especially when those injuries were to their weakest position. I said that right from the beginning, so I am not adding in the injury excuse now.
That is reality, so it did not surprise me that they fell below my not very lofty expecation.
As I expected you and I have different expectations of what failure is. That doesn't make either of us "right" or "wrong" We are just at a different stage.
Understand that I was slow to agree to this rebuild idea, but when I did I knew that it would be a 4 to 5 year process, so my expecations were very low.
That being said, I now expect Tambellini to start making moves to fill needs. A lottery pick will not be acceptable to me next season! I am also very leery that Tambellini/Lowe is the mgmt combo to get that done.
It's about pace, if the team continues on the same pace then they will get in that 70 point range which will roughly be an 8-12 point improvement over last season, that's improvement.
Pace? So no meaningful games this season and next season as well and you are okay with that?
So why did management go on record as saying that the team would be playing meaningful games in March? Sounds to me like the team was expected to win 10 more games this season.
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The PP and PK improvements are due a lot to young players getting a lot better (namely the big 3) moreso than any brilliant coaching strategies although i will also give the coaches some credit for the improved special teams.
Same with the PK.... Smyth, Belanger and Sutton have all contributed to a better PK along with huge improvements from Petry and Smid. Those veterans were brought in by Tambellini, the man that you insinuate hasn't brought in anybody that improves the roster.
Other than RNH and an improved Eberle the coaching IS the reason for improved play especially on the PK.
The coaching staff started to employed a square (2 men high) as opposed to the diamond (1 man high) which was used the past 3 seasons.
That in and of itself improved the PK tremendously. The players become plug and play at that point.
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The goal differential is hugely improved from last year. I don't have the 5 on 5 GF and GA numbers in front of me compared to last season but i would have to think that they are improved from last season 5 on 5 but of course that is also somewhat subjective because the numbers don't always tell the whole story.
There are improvements accross the board. Of course, it's hard not to improve on last seasons' ineptitude but there have been a lot of improvements nonetheless. You can see just by watching the team that they are much improved from last season. They still have their horrible stretches but those are much more few and far between compared to last season.
The 5x5 numbers are bad from game to game. Why...because the personnel on this team is by and large bad (especially the veteran players). This is a bad team 5x5 and that is likely to get worse next season as already the less than average veteran players get older.
The defense is bad...the goaltending is average to bad and the lack of grit in the top 6 has forced the coaches to play players like Petrell in the top 6.
The lack of balance has never been addressed since Tambo trook over.
This team has huge holes in the roster and until I see evidence tha Tambo has the where with all to improve these holes (which have been there for 4 years now) I see no reason to believe that things are on the right track.
