What about the language the players use on the ice? Pretty much every game I watch you can read lips or hear some f-bombs get dropped.
Sids first goal back after his return from his concussion (for a few games anyway) he clearly screams "******* YEAH!!".
I understand that it can be frustrating as a parent when "bad examples" are set for kids but come on, they see/hear FAR worse at school, on TV, in movies and the video games they play. I for one am getting sick and tired of parents expecting the whole world to be kid friendly. When many of them (not all, there are definitely some great parents out there) simply stick their kid in front of the TV/computer, don't take the time to explain stuff to them and then complain when a 'celebrity' does something that may or may not influence their kid. Last time I checked its the parents responsibility to raise their own kids, not the rest of the world.
Side note: I don't think anyone here has stated anything like what I just described... Just a bit of a rant.
It's up to the parent to set the example for their children, not hockey players. The only thing you can do is educate and give your child the tools to resist peer pressure and to just say NO.
As for the chew, it's not a big deal. Children these days are subjected to tons of negative influence, and for the most part they turn out ok.
But again, it falls to the parent. You have tons of influence over your own child, much more then a hockey player does that they see in an interview every so often.
If your letting your child watch hockey your also subjecting them to hockey fights, dirty hits and beer commercials. Not to mention the violent video games and movies the movies that are filled with sex, blood, guts and terrible language. Not to mention smoking!
And your concerned about your kid seeing a hockey player that enjoys chew?
That being said, could Buff wait until after the interview? Probably. Should he? That's kind of up to him. I personally would wait, but that's just me solely for the fact it doesn't make me sound like my mouth is full.
And that...is one man's opinion.
Your logic is baffling. I'm not sure how allowing a child to watch hockey equates to allowing them to play violent video games and watching sexually explicit movies. I'm sure there are many parents that allow their kids to watch hockey and not play Grand Theft Auto. Have no clue why you're equating the two.
The issue is reasonable expecation. Yes its compeltely up to the parents to allow or not allow children to watch hockey or anything else. But if you let a kid watch Pheneas and Ferb you don't expect a sex scene to come up. And if it does the parent can be pissed. Extreme example but reasonable comaprison. Just cause a parent lets their kids watch hockey doesn't mean they should reasonably accept that the kids will be subjected to the display of tobacco use. Tobaxco advertizing for sporting events in Canada is illegal. I think a parent should be allowed to think they can watch hockey with their kids wihout having to be exposed to it
This is something that I do agree with. In some aspects, chewing tobacco has become part of the hockey culture( for lack of a better word).
I've been doing the military thing since I was just a wee lad when I started with cadets. After that I joined the army and then transferred into the Navy. I joined the army when I was 17, and it was shortly there after that I started smoking. In the years from when I was 19-22 I was smoking 2 packs a day.
I'm not making excuses for my poor choicesand trying to blame it on the CF. At the end of the day a man makes his own choices. But it is definitely part of the culture, and your constantly surrounded by it. I started smoking for the sole reason of fitting in.
It is my fear that the same thing is happening to Hockey.
I've now been smoke free for over a year, and I still miss it.
I do believe that this is something that the NHL should do something about and discourage, in this respect anyways.
Thanks for sharing those views of your own personal experiences, sully. I think it relates quite well to the topic at hand.
Your logic is baffling. I'm not sure how allowing a child to watch hockey equates to allowing them to play violent video games and watching sexually explicit movies. I'm sure there are many parents that allow their kids to watch hockey and not play Grand Theft Auto. Have no clue why you're equating the two.
Because the "parent" is worried about the "child" watching a guy chew tobacco when there are clearly worse things that they are being subjected to. Most video games out there are violent, whether it be animated violence or a first person shooter, not necessarily grand theft auto...which is awful. That's not even touching on movies.
Fact of the matter is this...there are far worse things to be worried about then a bit of chew.
I feel like you're totally missing the question of venue, which is people's central point. Nobody's having a moral panic over chewing tobacco. Nobody cares what Buff does in his personal time. Nobody is or would be scandalized if they saw it anywhere else, and to be frank a lot of us have.
The question for most of us is whether it's professional or appropriate or draws the best image to do it as part of an essentially scheduled interview on national television. They're not ambushing the guy in his backyard here, y'know?
Let's not create phantom arguments that aren't being made, that's all I'm saying. Nobody's clutching their pearls that Buff likes the chew.
Good point. However, looking at the interview, I can say I would never have noticed his dip if it wasn't for this thread. It wasn't blatant, it wasn't discussed and it wasn't an issue. Buff does not do many interviews but I can recall a previous post-game spot with Beyak and I didn't notice it then either (if he even had a dip in).
Remember that this thread wasn't made b/c Buff's dip provoked the fanbase. NHL network guy sent a tweet and now people respond to it. Now some folks are saying "well, maybe, he could wait..." Honestly though, no one would even know.
So the venue may not be that important. It appears people care...after the fact. That is understandable but usually means people have a found a new vehicle to express their own value system.
Remember that this thread wasn't made b/c Buff's dip provoked the fanbase. NHL network guy sent a tweet and now people respond to it. Now some folks are saying "well, maybe, he could wait..." Honestly though, no one would even know.
Fair enough -- I guess from my perspective I've heard people talking about it before, and had some texts / emails with friends on it. I think what tends to happen is that people do talk about something amongst themselves, but once an "official channel" picks it up people feel a bit more justified in bringing it up more publicly.
Either way, I just hope we all keep in mind that I don't think a single person is having a fainting spell over Buff using chew, myself included -- oh trust me, given my ongoing questionable lifestyle decisions I would be the world's hugest hypocrite if I did.
Good point. However, looking at the interview, I can say I would never have noticed his dip if it wasn't for this thread. It wasn't blatant, it wasn't discussed and it wasn't an issue. Buff does not do many interviews but I can recall a previous post-game spot with Beyak and I didn't notice it then either (if he even had a dip in).
Remember that this thread wasn't made b/c Buff's dip provoked the fanbase. NHL network guy sent a tweet and now people respond to it. Now some folks are saying "well, maybe, he could wait..." Honestly though, no one would even know.
So the venue may not be that important. It appears people care...after the fact. That is understandable but usually means people have a found a new vehicle to express their own value system.
As the thread creator, I don't think this is true. I have noticed it before and I wasn't a fan of it then either, however, I just didn't create a thread about it, though truthfully it did cross my mind. To be honest I didn't know if it was just a one-time thing, but now that I've seen it in a few pre and post game interviews, I just don't see the need for it. Seeing Billy Jaffe tweet about it did indeed give me more interest in finding out what others thought.
As for noticing it in Byfuglien's interviews, my own personal opinion is I have noticed it every time, i'm not sure how you could miss it. Not throwing rocks at anyone who didn't notice it, I'm just saying I found it quite obvious both in last nights interview and previous interviews.
As the thread creator, I don't think this is true. I have noticed it before and I wasn't a fan of it then either, however, I just didn't create a thread about it, though truthfully it did cross my mind. To be honest I didn't know if it was just a one-time thing, but now that I've seen it in a few pre and post game interviews, I just don't see the need for it. Seeing Billy Jaffe tweet about it did indeed give me more interest in finding out what others thought.
As for noticing it in Byfuglien's interviews, my own personal opinion is I have noticed it every time, i'm not sure how you could miss it. Not throwing rocks at anyone who didn't notice it, I'm just saying I found it quite obvious both in last nights interview and previous interviews.
Obvious if you know what you're looking for, which most children probably don't. I don't dip and nobody I hang out with does either, so I had no idea that's what it was until it was mentioned here.
Because the "parent" is worried about the "child" watching a guy chew tobacco when there are clearly worse things that they are being subjected to. Most video games out there are violent, whether it be animated violence or a first person shooter, not necessarily grand theft auto...which is awful. That's not even touching on movies.
Fact of the matter is this...there are far worse things to be worried about then a bit of chew.
Every kid is being exposed to violent video games??
Still ridiculous logic. There's worse things out there kids can be exposed to so parents shouldn't worry about chew. Your son stole a car. Oh well, there's worse things he could have done. Not like he killed someone.
Once again a parent can choose not to let their kid play violent games or not. They can choose whether or not to let them watch violent movies. But that's their choice. If they're watching seasame street and oscar has a big wad of tabbacco in his mouth id have a problem with it because they didn't think that allowing them to watch seasame street would result in that exposure. A parent should allow their kids to watch hockey without being exposed to tabbacco use. Simple as that.
But I agree with JB that kids probably didn't notice it.
As the thread creator, I don't think this is true. I have noticed it before and I wasn't a fan of it then either, however, I just didn't create a thread about it, though truthfully it did cross my mind. To be honest I didn't know if it was just a one-time thing, but now that I've seen it in a few pre and post game interviews, I just don't see the need for it. Seeing Billy Jaffe tweet about it did indeed give me more interest in finding out what others thought.
As for noticing it in Byfuglien's interviews, my own personal opinion is I have noticed it every time, i'm not sure how you could miss it. Not throwing rocks at anyone who didn't notice it, I'm just saying I found it quite obvious both in last nights interview and previous interviews.
I noticed it immediately and thought 'gross'. I will admit that the kid component of it didn't really cross my mind but I don't have kids, so it's not exactly top of mind for me. However, I know that kids idolize hockey players, especially guys like Buff, and they emulate those players, from the equipment they use, to the way they prepare their sticks, celebrate, the sports beverages they drink, and yes, bad habits they have.
Sorry man, that doesn't wash. Sure, if you are talking adult - oriented entertainment, I agree. Kids should be monitored wrt what they watch, but hockey is a family entertainment option. Parents shouldn't worry about their kids being exposed to that kind of stuff because they love hockey.
I know people that don't let there kids watch hockey because of the fighting.
Everyone is different, and have different values in life.
Obvious if you know what you're looking for, which most children probably don't. I don't dip and nobody I hang out with does either, so I had no idea that's what it was until it was mentioned here.
That is a valid point, JB. Perhaps 3/4 of viewers wouldn't even click that he was chewing, that's quite possible. It is something that can be done without some even noticing. I suppose since I noticed it, it gave me more to think about than others who may not have noticed it or simply don't find it to be anything warranting discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet
I noticed it immediately and thought 'gross'. I will admit that the kid component of it didn't really cross my mind but I don't have kids, so it's not exactly top of mind for me. However, I know that kids idolize hockey players, especially guys like Buff, and they emulate those players, from the equipment they use, to the way they prepare their sticks, celebrate, the sports beverages they drink, and yes, bad habits they have.
Indeed. The kid component I more so than less expanded on from Billy Jaffe's tweet. Perhaps it's something younger kids would not even notice, that is likely the case, though I still do think it is a valid point re; young teens.
As the thread creator, I don't think this is true. I have noticed it before and I wasn't a fan of it then either, however, I just didn't create a thread about it, though truthfully it did cross my mind. To be honest I didn't know if it was just a one-time thing, but now that I've seen it in a few pre and post game interviews, I just don't see the need for it. Seeing Billy Jaffe tweet about it did indeed give me more interest in finding out what others thought.
As for noticing it in Byfuglien's interviews, my own personal opinion is I have noticed it every time, i'm not sure how you could miss it. Not throwing rocks at anyone who didn't notice it, I'm just saying I found it quite obvious both in last nights interview and previous interviews.
My apologies for sounding presumptuous. My intention was not to belittle the thread creation but, rather, to support my argument by showing that most fans did not/could not care until the issue is forced on them. If you care about it, then yeah I concur you should talk about it.
But now that he has dipped on live TV...now what? Per your argument, he has done it before and no one has expressed any opinion until now. Now that opinion has been expressed, what are the consequences? Well, considering that most folks were not too angry when he was busted for drunken boating then I cannot imagine too much outrage for him doing something completely legal. And most opinions expressed on here seem to suggest that tobacco consumption certainly reflects on the individual doing it but is not something you can control by popular opinion.
I 100% appreciate that many people would prefer their star athletes to be without wrinkles. However that is unrealistic and, not to mention, kinda weird that people want their favourite athletes to conform some sort of ideal behaviour. The Jets are human hockey players and many, if not most, are junior hockey grads who are being paid a lot of money for a grade 12 education. They are what they are. Some are better role models than others. For example, I cannot envision Nugent-Hopkins throwing in a dip after a game.
The question I believe you posted in the thread creation was "what do others think?" My response will continue to be "not much". Buff chews, who cares? Doesn't affect his hockey, his teammates or the community. Is it Ok for an athlete to do? Yeah its OK but its stupid b/c you invest in your body and training for a reason...not to top it off with the buzz you get from a dip. Perhaps that is the lense this incident should be examined from. Bad for the kids? Nope, that is where parenting comes in.
I strongly feel that an athletes's behaviour and consumption of whatever is not really any one's business unless they have a committed a crime. And yes, Buff did commit a crime but it has nothing to do with throwing in a big fat dip.
I most appreciate that this thread has produced the nickname "Big Dipper" for Buff.
My apologies for sounding presumptuous. My intention was not to belittle the thread creation but, rather, to support my argument by showing that most fans did not/could not care until the issue is forced on them. If you care about it, then yeah I concur you should talk about it.
But now that he has dipped on live TV...now what? Per your argument, he has done it before and no one has expressed any opinion until now. Now that opinion has been expressed, what are the consequences? Well, considering that most folks were not too angry when he was busted for drunken boating then I cannot imagine too much outrage for him doing something completely legal. And most opinions expressed on here seem to suggest that tobacco consumption certainly reflects on the individual doing it but is not something you can control by popular opinion.
I 100% appreciate that many people would prefer their star athletes to be without wrinkles. However that is unrealistic and, not to mention, kinda weird that people want their favourite athletes to conform some sort of ideal behaviour. The Jets are human hockey players and many, if not most, are junior hockey grads who are being paid a lot of money for a grade 12 education. They are what they are. Some are better role models than others. For example, I cannot envision Nugent-Hopkins throwing in a dip after a game.
The question I believe you posted in the thread creation was "what do others think?" My response will continue to be "not much". Buff chews, who cares? Doesn't affect his hockey, his teammates or the community. Is it Ok for an athlete to do? Yeah its OK but its stupid b/c you invest in your body and training for a reason...not to top it off with the buzz you get from a dip. Perhaps that is the lense this incident should be examined from. Bad for the kids? Nope, that is where parenting comes in.
I strongly feel that an athletes's behaviour and consumption of whatever is not really any one's business unless they have a committed a crime. And yes, Buff did commit a crime but it has nothing to do with throwing in a big fat dip.
I most appreciate that this thread has produced the nickname "Big Dipper" for Buff.
Totally understand what you're saying here and where you're coming from in regards to the thread, Tintin. It's all good.
And in regards to the rest of your post, I see what you're saying and where you're coming from with it. You make valid points. While I do think there is a time and place for it, like many things in life whether you're a professional athlete in the spotlight or just a regular Joe, I don't think it is necessary to do in a pre or post game interview. But, perhaps it is what it is. I actually chuckled last night when watching him because I could tell he was doing it and you could see he was being careful not to lose it or show it while he was talking and laughing, I found it a bit funny.
What will I personally do from now on when I see it? Nothing. I won't even bother to comment on it, it's not in my nature to be repetitive about things whether I like or dislike them, at least I'd like to think that anyway.
It is what it is. I don't like the rain or waking up to 3 feet of snow, but it happens, so i'll deal with it.
I used to work at Edmonton International Airport with a bunch of guys from Sherwood Park who would always chew between flights. I had no problem with them chewing, but I found the plastic Tim Horton's cups and Coke bottles that they'd carry full of spit pretty nasty.
I figure, keep the bottle hidden, and whatever you do is your own business.
I totally agree Guerzy. I noticed it right away. The number of junior players that I play with who dip before and after skates is pretty high. NHL players have to set a better example.
There is no way the Jets should allow Byfuglien to dip in public, or certainly during interviews.
Having played junior hockey at almost all levels, your average team has anywhere from 12-20 players who chew tobacco (on a 23 man roster). It is pretty much part of hockey culture now, much like chewing tobacco is in baseball at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully1410
Isnt it illegal to use chew in a building anyways? I always thought of it like smoking that it needs to be done in a designated area. I could be wrong though.
Nope.
I've come through the many levels of hockey and it is true that chewing tobacco is pretty much a part of hockey nowadays. My midget AAA team in Edmonton had about 10-12 players who chewed tobacco...keep in mind that's 15-17 year olds. I tried it plenty. Wasn't for me, but I got nothing against people that do. But I think some of you that might be a little older with kids and whatnot might be surprised at how prevalent it is and how young these kids are starting. Honestly I could not name a single person growing up playing hockey that smoked cigarettes ever, yet the number that chew is through the roof.
Honestly, Byfuglien should be waiting till after the interviews. But again, alot of these guys are starting at 14-15 years old, it's just a common thing to pop a chew in after a game. That never changes, but now suddenly they get to the NHL and the coach barely gets 5 minutes before the media charges in to interview and that can take a long long time with them hanging around, this is something that is very habit based obviously, it's not an easy thing to break. I can understand why it would be hard to stop. It does set a bad example I suppose, how many kids will even pick up on that. Peer pressure and exposure to it on teams/in school etc is going to be 1000x the factor that one kid seeing Buff chew on the TV will do. I don't think it is a big deal, kids are impressionable but can make their own decisions. I was always one of the few who never chewed, it's not like I was made fun of, or left out of activities, just not something I did. Meh.
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2012 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS LA KINGS!!! GO JETS GO!
Having played junior hockey at almost all levels, your average team has anywhere from 12-20 players who chew tobacco (on a 23 man roster). It is pretty much part of hockey culture now, much like chewing tobacco is in baseball at this point.
So this. People need to relax, kids are gonna try it eventually at some point. I dip from time to time, sure it's gross to most but I will say for me at least the buzz calms down my adrenaline from playin. I usually play late and am an hr away from the rink so by the time I get home, Im not as wired and can go to bed easily.
I overhear kids from bantams up talking about it at the rink, its just part of the game. People know the risks in using tobacco, its their choice. They don't need haters telling them how to live their life.
Last edited by ATLhockey437: 03-06-2012 at 04:06 PM.
Totally understand what you're saying here and where you're coming from in regards to the thread, Tintin. It's all good.
And in regards to the rest of your post, I see what you're saying and where you're coming from with it. You make valid points. While I do think there is a time and place for it, like many things in life whether you're a professional athlete in the spotlight or just a regular Joe, I don't think it is necessary to do in a pre or post game interview. But, perhaps it is what it is. I actually chuckled last night when watching him because I could tell he was doing it and you could see he was being careful not to lose it or show it while he was talking and laughing, I found it a bit funny.
What will I personally do from now on when I see it? Nothing. I won't even bother to comment on it, it's not in my nature to be repetitive about things whether I like or dislike them, at least I'd like to think that anyway.
It is what it is. I don't like the rain or waking up to 3 feet of snow, but it happens, so i'll deal with it.
I appreciate the discussion. If it bothers you then by all means talk about it. I mean, through dialogue we gain mutual understanding right? I just wanted to express my 2 cents (CDN).
And I complain about the snow every day. Another 2 feet here in Saskatoon today. Ugh.
Every kid is being exposed to violent video games??
Still ridiculous logic. There's worse things out there kids can be exposed to so parents shouldn't worry about chew. Your son stole a car. Oh well, there's worse things he could have done. Not like he killed someone.
Once again a parent can choose not to let their kid play violent games or not. They can choose whether or not to let them watch
violent movies. But that's their choice. If they're watching seasame street and oscar has a big wad of tabbacco in his mouth
id have a problem with it because they didn't think that allowing them to watch seasame street would result in that exposure. A parent
should allow their kids to watch hockey without being exposed to tabbacco use. Simple as that.
But I agree with JB that kids
probably didn't notice it.
No they didnt, and saying" oh well they stole car. They could have killed someone" is not at all the same thing.
Next time your watching TV, really pay attention to what's on the commercials. Even some of the "wholesome family television" has alot of things that a child should not be watching.
Really pay attention to the movies that you watch that are considered family friendly.
It's not even young kids that you have to be worried about. It's the teenagers that are the ones that are watching movies and stuff. A five year old(which is what I have) is not subjected to the same kind of media. No one let's a five year old play halo. However a thirteen or fourteen year old will. And they will find a way. They always do.
My point is why worry about a hockey player that chews tobacco, when you should be worried about everything else.
Music videos, video games, even magazines...it's all out there snd everything has content that we would rather our child not be exposed to.
Fact is no matter what you do, they will be. And it's up to you, the parent, to educate your children about the world and how to make good choices.
You may say that my logic is flawed, but it's really just realistic.
I think it all relies on the parents job to educate their kids on this type of stuff. It's not just in sports it's everywhere from normal TV shows to Video Games. If you take it away from one thing you would have to take it away from everything. Try explaining the definition of a role model in a positive light to kids. If they have Buff as their role model they need to look at the good things and not the negative things.
I'm getting tired of the news lately with all these shootings and what not, that blame video games for these kids doing these things because they see it in a video game. No it's not the freaking video game its poor parenting or the kid is just messed up mentally. Parents just need to love their kids and give them attention when they need it.
I think it all relies on the parents job to educate their kids on this type of stuff. It's not just in sports it's everywhere from normal TV shows to Video Games. If you take it away from one thing you would have to take it away from everything. Try explaining the definition of a role model in a positive light to kids. If they have
Buff as their role model they need to look at the good things and not the negative things.
I'm getting tired of the news lately
with all these shootings and what not, that blame video games for these kids doing these things because they see it in a video game. No it's not the freaking
video game its poor parenting or the kid is just messed up mentally. Parents just need to love their kids and give them attention when they
need it.
Friendly ManiBROba
