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Bailey's Move Pays Dividends for Isles

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Old
03-06-2012, 10:32 PM
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Bailey's Move Pays Dividends for Isles

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...ders-1.3583932

"I didn't feel I played all that bad [at center] -- the production just wasn't there," Bailey said after practice Tuesday at the Coliseum. "You're expected to contribute points, and I expect that from myself, no matter what role you're in. It's weird the way things work. Sometimes, you get some breaks and it feels like the puck's going in for you."

"Bails has the ability to pull up and make a play, so it really makes room for me, too," said Nielsen, who has six goals and five assists in his last 15 games. "And Ully creates some room with his speed and the way he plays. We've been pretty good together so far."

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03-06-2012, 11:20 PM
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The subtle message lost amidst the noise of the article is that a bunch of players would have been better served with:

1) Better overall depth (linemates)
2) We need a coach who can see what he has, and use it all wisely, including line changes as necessary.
3) Someone needs to stop Wang from telling Cap what the lines for the game will be.

Ok, the last one is a cheap shot, but don't tell me you haven't wondered it a few times yourself...

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03-06-2012, 11:43 PM
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I really like the move to wing. But I have no doubt he would have been able to put up points as a center too. He just needed to play with some quality offensive players.

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03-07-2012, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
I really like the move to wing. But I have no doubt he would have been able to put up points as a center too. He just needed to play with some quality offensive players.
Too much mental baggage. The wing is easier, and the poor kid has been shortchanges his entire career so this had to happen. Frans is a good center so Bailey has less to WORRY about defense and set up, and can contribute. Eventually, he gets confidence and swagger and can go back, but this misrun trainwreck team finally got something right.

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03-07-2012, 12:03 AM
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How long until we get a peak of Bailey and JT on the same line for a few games?

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03-07-2012, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by RWWallpaper View Post
How long until we get a peak of Bailey and JT on the same line for a few games?
I don't know.


Jack, what do you think?




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03-07-2012, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Min Misconduct View Post
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...ders-1.3583932

"I didn't feel I played all that bad [at center] -- the production just wasn't there," Bailey said after practice Tuesday at the Coliseum. "You're expected to contribute points, and I expect that from myself, no matter what role you're in. It's weird the way things work. Sometimes, you get some breaks and it feels like the puck's going in for you."

"Bails has the ability to pull up and make a play, so it really makes room for me, too," said Nielsen, who has six goals and five assists in his last 15 games. "And Ully creates some room with his speed and the way he plays. We've been pretty good together so far."
I heard Bailey on XM Radio yesterday, and I've got to say, I was impressed. He shows a great deal of sincere care and personality.

Also, I guess one could say, "What comes around goes around." - Because Josh Bailey was part of the log jam at center for the Windsor Spitfires, Taylor Hall, a "natural center", if you will, had to learn how to play the wing. So now Bailey moves to the wing, and he's doing well. Rod Brind'Amour, a player who I think Bailey can be like, played a bit of wing, too, before finding himself back at center. So this is not an indictment. It's nice to have a player with this kind of versatility.

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03-07-2012, 08:09 AM
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I'm very happy to see Bailey playing well and at least quieting the 'Bailey is a bust' talk. While I think he should be playing center, it's good to see him do well on the wing as well. I'd love to see him get some time with Tavares too, but I doubt Cappy would do that.

Keep it up Bails, I still have faith in you!

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03-07-2012, 08:57 AM
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I've always liked Bailey's hockey sense and his always improving ability to make the good play in his own end...now it would be nice to see the offensive production catch up and stay up.

As I have said about him, and Okposo for that matter, he has been very disappointing since coming into the league but I am not dealing either one of them unless I'm offered something very substantial. They are still very young and were never really afforded the opportunity to develop at the AHL level. This "on the job" training program we have with a lot of our top prospects has really hampered and slowed down their respective development...but I still think the ability is definitely there and will shine at some point...

All that said however, we are getting very close to the proverbial "**** or get off the pot" moment that goes along with most young players...either find that all elusive consistency, or we have to give someone else a crack at it.

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03-07-2012, 09:42 AM
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Sure Bailey is on a nice little hot streak, but even after this hot streak he still only has 10 goals and 8 assists in 64 games. Nothing really to be proud about. He has always shown flashes of brilliance, the problem is that he has never been consistent. We keep saying next year is the year and it never is. How much longer do we keep this up? However, do I want to deal him? No. The problem is that he has been playing in the NHL for way too long when he should not have been. I wish that we had signed a player to take his spot so he could have gotten time in the AHL. I do not know how players fair in the AHL after playing so long in the NHL. However, I feel Bailey could still use a good year or two in the AHL in a hope that will drive him to work for it. But I would only do that if we signed someone who brought more to the table than Bailey did.

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03-07-2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by RWWallpaper View Post
How long until we get a peak of Bailey and JT on the same line for a few games?
Whoa......now you are asking Jack to change up the first AND second lines? That sounds like an awful lot of work.

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03-07-2012, 10:18 AM
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I've always liked Bailey's hockey sense and his always improving ability to make the good play in his own end...now it would be nice to see the offensive production catch up and stay up.

As I have said about him, and Okposo for that matter, he has been very disappointing since coming into the league but I am not dealing either one of them unless I'm offered something very substantial. They are still very young and were never really afforded the opportunity to develop at the AHL level. This "on the job" training program we have with a lot of our top prospects has really hampered and slowed down their respective development...but I still think the ability is definitely there and will shine at some point...

All that said however, we are getting very close to the proverbial "**** or get off the pot" moment that goes along with most young players...either find that all elusive consistency, or we have to give someone else a crack at it.
We're seeing prospects like Cizikas,Ullstrom and Ness come up from the ahl making their way onto the isles roster and pushing aside older,inconsistent or underachieving players.

With Kabanov and Lee expected to be at Bridgeport next season,we are going to see them putting even more pressure on the inconsistent young forwards KO,Grabner and Bailey in the next 1-2 seasons.


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03-07-2012, 10:30 AM
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Whoa......now you are asking Jack to change up the first AND second lines? That sounds like an awful lot of work.


This is a good core of hockey players, just far too few of them.

I don't expect offensive production from these players, under these circumstances (unless they play with Tavares). It's not an accident that the two players who are on his line are among the leaders in the NHL while the rest of the forwards suffer - this is simply a really bad hockey team.

But as bad as the team is, the coaching might be just as bad.

The team doesn't need Bailey to score 20 goals and 50 pts to be better. They need to prevent goals, far more important than secondary scoring.

Recently, they've been better defensively, and getting hot goaltending, so they've won some games. But the best teams in the league (BOS, DET, VAN, NYR) don't have top scorers that are any more productive than the Isles top scorers. But they are far better balanced, much better defensively, much more successful on the ice.

You replace Bailey with Hudler and I'd bet Oldtimehockey's left arm that Bailey outscores him by a huge margin.

Wang/Snow (may as well speak of them as ONE) need to deliver some quality NHL players - TWO forwards, TWO defensemen and provide a coach. Until then - more of the same.

Bailey is a much better and more complete player than Parenteau, Moulson, Grabner, Nielsen, Okposo....that's both sad and true.

I know that last sentence sounds absurd to some, but I believe it to be true. Bailey is good in all aspects of the game, he has no weakness except consistency, which is understandable. The output would come with the right circumstances.

In Parenteau/Moulson, we have very limited players who are very good offensively (on that top line) and hurt the team in so many ways without the puck - just reality.

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03-07-2012, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
The subtle message lost amidst the noise of the article is that a bunch of players would have been better served with:

1) Better overall depth (linemates)
2) We need a coach who can see what he has, and use it all wisely, including line changes as necessary.
3) Someone needs to stop Wang from telling Cap what the lines for the game will be.

Ok, the last one is a cheap shot, but don't tell me you haven't wondered it a few times yourself...
I agree, it baffles me how the coaching staff can't see what line combinations would possibly work nicely together yet all the HF posters can.

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03-07-2012, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
We're seeing prospects like Cizikas,Ullstrom and Ness come up from the ahl making their way onto the isles roster and pushing aside older,inconsistent or underachieving players.

With Kabanov and Lee expected to be at Bridgeport next season,we are going to see them putting even more pressure on the inconsistent young forwards KO,Grabner and Bailey in the next 1-2 seasons.
Competition can only help...

I will always have a soft spot for Bailey because he was NEVER afforded the chance to develop in the AHL like those aforementioned players did and that makes me want to give him every opportunity to succeed in spite of how badly they botched his development.

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03-07-2012, 01:02 PM
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I heard Bailey on XM Radio yesterday, and I've got to say, I was impressed. He shows a great deal of sincere care and personality.
http://islanders.nhl.com/club/podcas...id=DL|NYI|home

hopefully that takes you to the radio interview. If not, then just go to the NYI homepage & it's there. There's also an Okposo interview as well.

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03-07-2012, 01:08 PM
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This is a good core of hockey players, just far too few of them.

I don't expect offensive production from these players, under these circumstances (unless they play with Tavares). It's not an accident that the two players who are on his line are among the leaders in the NHL while the rest of the forwards suffer - this is simply a really bad hockey team.

But as bad as the team is, the coaching might be just as bad.

The team doesn't need Bailey to score 20 goals and 50 pts to be better. They need to prevent goals, far more important than secondary scoring.

Recently, they've been better defensively, and getting hot goaltending, so they've won some games. But the best teams in the league (BOS, DET, VAN, NYR) don't have top scorers that are any more productive than the Isles top scorers. But they are far better balanced, much better defensively, much more successful on the ice.

You replace Bailey with Hudler and I'd bet Oldtimehockey's left arm that Bailey outscores him by a huge margin.

Wang/Snow (may as well speak of them as ONE) need to deliver some quality NHL players - TWO forwards, TWO defensemen and provide a coach. Until then - more of the same.

Bailey is a much better and more complete player than Parenteau, Moulson, Grabner, Nielsen, Okposo....that's both sad and true.

I know that last sentence sounds absurd to some, but I believe it to be true. Bailey is good in all aspects of the game, he has no weakness except consistency, which is understandable. The output would come with the right circumstances.

In Parenteau/Moulson, we have very limited players who are very good offensively (on that top line) and hurt the team in so many ways without the puck - just reality.
You got no argument from me. Hoodles is a good player, but Bailey is a very good player given a pittance for his development. When he matures (without the mandatory Brett Lindros/DiPietro pressure put on him to save the franchise) he's still the smart, solid positionally defensive hitting scoring threat. He'll just be mentally ready for the job when the time comes, not doing naked pushups in a tow yard for our glorious owner.

And his game will be far deeper than Jiri Hudler's.

The Nielson wing is a solid START to this (since we rushed him through Bridgeport FOR WHAT REASON I HAVE NO F***ING CLUE!).

So can I keep my left arm?

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03-07-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
The subtle message lost amidst the noise of the article is that a bunch of players would have been better served with:

1) Better overall depth (linemates)
2) We need a coach who can see what he has, and use it all wisely, including line changes as necessary.
3) Someone needs to stop Wang from telling Cap what the lines for the game will be.

Ok, the last one is a cheap shot, but don't tell me you haven't wondered it a few times yourself...
  1. I think I've agreed with every one of your posts the last few weeks.
  2. Wang deserves as many cheap shots as possible. Don't ever apologize for that.

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03-07-2012, 01:46 PM
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With Kabanov and Lee expected to be at Bridgeport next season,we are going to see them putting even more pressure on the inconsistent young forwards KO,Grabner and Bailey in the next 1-2 seasons.
Good, good, and good. Okposo, not Bailey, is the most frustrating player on the Isles. He needs some pressure.

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03-07-2012, 02:11 PM
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Can someone jog my memory, but was Bailey playing wing last year when he started the season hot before injuring his hip? He was producing at over a point per game for 8 or 9 games I believe. A spurt, I know.

The player development concerns me a bit. Too many young players playing at the NHL level that need either development time in junior or the AHL, or simply to earn their place on the big club. Because of the lack of depth, they get their shot a lot earlier, and I think it contributes, consciously or not, to some level of complacency unless one's name is Tavares.

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03-07-2012, 02:21 PM
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The Nielson wing is a solid START to this (since we rushed him through Bridgeport FOR WHAT REASON I HAVE NO F***ING CLUE!).
Bailey has a sexy 1st round lotto pick cap hit, which is more important under Wang-o-nomics.

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03-07-2012, 03:09 PM
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This is a good core of hockey players, just far too few of them.

I don't expect offensive production from these players, under these circumstances (unless they play with Tavares). It's not an accident that the two players who are on his line are among the leaders in the NHL while the rest of the forwards suffer - this is simply a really bad hockey team.

But as bad as the team is, the coaching might be just as bad.

The team doesn't need Bailey to score 20 goals and 50 pts to be better. They need to prevent goals, far more important than secondary scoring.

Recently, they've been better defensively, and getting hot goaltending, so they've won some games. But the best teams in the league (BOS, DET, VAN, NYR) don't have top scorers that are any more productive than the Isles top scorers. But they are far better balanced, much better defensively, much more successful on the ice.

You replace Bailey with Hudler and I'd bet Oldtimehockey's left arm that Bailey outscores him by a huge margin.

Wang/Snow (may as well speak of them as ONE) need to deliver some quality NHL players - TWO forwards, TWO defensemen and provide a coach. Until then - more of the same.

Bailey is a much better and more complete player than Parenteau, Moulson, Grabner, Nielsen, Okposo....that's both sad and true.

I know that last sentence sounds absurd to some, but I believe it to be true. Bailey is good in all aspects of the game, he has no weakness except consistency, which is understandable. The output would come with the right circumstances.
In Parenteau/Moulson, we have very limited players who are very good offensively (on that top line) and hurt the team in so many ways without the puck - just reality.

IMO, inconsistency is a huge weakness......and going further, another one of his weaknesses is that he doesnt really have any strengths either...
1. does a SC team put him on the ice for a big faceoff up 1 in its own zone? NO
2. does a SC team put him on the ice for a PP? NO
3. does a SC team put him on the ice for a big PK? NO

he has 22 points so far this season...most 4th liners in the NHL have as many points as him

he was obviously rushed and i kind of feel bad for him, but to think he is magically going to turn into a 60 point player is a little ridiculous IMHO....i hope i eat my words

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03-07-2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
We're seeing prospects like Cizikas,Ullstrom and Ness come up from the ahl making their way onto the isles roster and pushing aside older,inconsistent or underachieving players.

With Kabanov and Lee expected to be at Bridgeport next season,we are going to see them putting even more pressure on the inconsistent young forwards KO,Grabner and Bailey in the next 1-2 seasons.
Excellent point.


But in the case of a prospect coming up and pushing aside one of bailey, grabner, or okposo, what happens to them? do we waste 3 million dollars in the ahl (not like the cap is a real issue. Wangs more afraid of reaching the ceiling than Cappy is to change his facial expression)

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03-07-2012, 08:27 PM
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I heard Bailey on XM Radio yesterday, and I've got to say, I was impressed. He shows a great deal of sincere care and personality.

Also, I guess one could say, "What comes around goes around." - Because Josh Bailey was part of the log jam at center for the Windsor Spitfires, Taylor Hall, a "natural center", if you will, had to learn how to play the wing. So now Bailey moves to the wing, and he's doing well. Rod Brind'Amour, a player who I think Bailey can be like, played a bit of wing, too, before finding himself back at center. So this is not an indictment. It's nice to have a player with this kind of versatility.
Just so you know it was this impression that got Bailey drafted. There has never been a doubt about his character or maturity. The doubt has always been about his skill. I hope your Brind'Amour analogy comes to fruition. I'm not going to hold my breath but I certainly hope that this is signs of consistent strong play from Bailey here on out. I've just seen these glimpses too often for too short a period to want to celebrate right now.

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03-07-2012, 08:28 PM
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Same ****, different thread.

How does Bailey progress with two legitimate wingers after a year or two of seasoning in the AHL? What about Okposo being given a little bit more time and surrounded with decent players in the AHL? Fact of the matter is that we didn't have many decent players in the AHL or NHL by the time these guys got here.

How does Bailey produce as a winger to Tavares?
How does Okposo produce as a winger to Tavares?

I can answer the second question. Tavares had his most dominant month ever with KO on his wing. Guess how many other months this year John Tavares has finished as a plus player? That's right, the answer is ZERO. Why? Because John Tavares with Moulson and PAP on his wings is the most physically dominant player on his line. JT is the best in the corners on his line. JT is the best skater on his line. Against smaller or less mobile teams, they compete just fine. Against larger and more mobile teams, they struggle. We're not even talking about our 2nd line here, we're talking about our top line that is weak against certain kinds of squads as it is currently built.

Moving on...
If Bailey is a center, who are his goal scoring wingers?
If Bailey is a winger, who is his goal scoring center?

Okposo has obviously proven to not be a sniper so far in his career, but he is very good at retrieving the puck along the boards and making a quick pass. If he's a playmaking winger, then who is his goal scoring center?

I also really don't get why many here continue to think that the current team's biggest problem is letting up too many goals.

We are 3rd last in overall offense. That's pretty much been our peak all year long. Our ES scoring has been bottom-3 all year long. Our power play is in the top 50% of the league. See the contrast? Understand the reason? I'll give you a hit, it has to do with space on the ice and time to make decisions.

Now, if you want to say that our inability to take back the puck at times reduces our possession and future scoring chances, I'm with you on that. However, that's as much a forward problem as it is a problem with our defense.

The current team is far more talented than it has been all year long. That's because of the addition of better skating forwards. We still lack size down the middle. We still lack size on the back end. Our lines are still not quite what you would want them to be even with the current personnel. The makeup of our forward group is still very flawed. The makeup of our defense is still very flawed. We lack "plus" physical attributes and goal scoring.

I'm all for having a coach who knows how to tweak his lineup, but our biggest issue is still the makeup of the current lineup. As years pass, talented prospects who are larger and skate better will fill some of the holes. It does nothing for many of the players that are currently here developing slower than they would otherwise; no benefit for the current squad happens until those bigger and more talented (yet raw) players arrive.

So what's our biggest problem? We have one John Tavares and nothing else that could be considered a major piece on offense to glue ANY of our other forwards to. We have a bad mix of complementary forwards; even worse, we've rarely used the best alignment of the best mix we have.

If we go into next season with the same exact makeup at forward, every single person here should be pissed off.

Now, having said all of that, we need to concentrate on defense first. Why? We simply have too many expiring contracts on defense. It's not that our forward group is less of a problem than our defense. It's simply that we have more opportunities to improve on defense and more urgency in filling those slots because of the amount of slots becoming available.

As a final note, would people be *****ing about Bailey as much if this was his 2nd NHL season? It probably should be his 2nd NHL season. Instead, it's his 4th NHL season. The most talent he's ever played with were other players near his age or younger, or castoffs from other teams.

Get a goal scoring center with some size for the 2nd line and the differences it will make for this team are enormous. A veteran who has proven he can do it. Someone who drives to the net. A guy that can at least compete in front of either net on the ice. We don't have that guy anywhere close to being in this lineup, yet we have a ton of guys who could slot next to that kind of guy.

See the real problem?

,
Mitch


Last edited by mitchy22: 03-07-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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