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Beliveau says players making a mistake

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Old
11-10-2004, 01:17 PM
  #51
vanlady
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
IMO the PA has good reason NOT to trust the owners, but have failed 100% to bring those reasons forward properly. If the players agreed to cost certainty based on independant examination of revenue and the owners refused to open the books, the public would be far more willing to question the owners.

In reality, I think the PA rejects the salary to revenue tie because they see the revenue stream dropping in the future. Ironically, their actions are insuring that their prophesy comes true.
The only issue I disagree with you on is why the PA rejects the cap. Remember Goodenow was instrumental in bringing down Eagleson. He does not trust half the guys on the ownership side. I think he feels any sign of weakness is only going to bring them back to the days in the 80's. Remember these owners did not become billionaires by being nice guys, they go for the jugular every time.

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11-10-2004, 03:26 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Because all these media outlets have dealings with the NHL. TSN, Sportsnet, CHUM, etc. They all need to stay on the NHL's good side. On the other hand, if they tick off the PA who really cares if Be a Player stays on the air?

Do you think TSN wants to lose its national broadcast deal or all the footage they use for the NHL Network or ESPN Classic Canada? TSN has the most to lose if they don't tow the NHL's line. That's why their "respected" employees act like ownership shills. Listening to Pierre McGuire on the radio these days is a sickening experience. You can even hear the brown on his nose it is so blatant. They try to look impartial by putting their most inept employee, Glen Healy, on the air to back the players.
Yeah, the media outlets are scared to pi$s off the NHL, because there are so many people lining up to televise NHL games. Lets face it, the NHL needs TSN, Sportsnet etc.. just as much as they need the NHL

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11-10-2004, 04:03 PM
  #53
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Beliveau did sign one of the most lucrative contracts in NHL history at the time.

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Old
11-10-2004, 04:39 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leachmeister2000
Beliveau did sign one of the most lucrative contracts in NHL history at the time.
Like Beliveau says himself, he has always been on the players side up to now. However, he's also a business savvy person and as such he knows that the players demand is currently over what the offer can sustain. A good system will seek equilibrium.

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11-10-2004, 05:40 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chelios
Yeah, the media outlets are scared to pi$s off the NHL, because there are so many people lining up to televise NHL games. Lets face it, the NHL needs TSN, Sportsnet etc.. just as much as they need the NHL
Not even close. The networks need the NHL more then the NHL needs them. The NHL has their choice of TSN, Sportsnet, The Score, CBC, Toronto1, LeafsTV, CHUM, A Channel, PPV etc to cover their games.

The NHL is king in Canada when it comes to sports. That's why TSN and Sportsnet need to fall in line so that they don't have to resort to spelling bees and cheerleading in prime time.

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11-10-2004, 05:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Not even close. The networks need the NHL more then the NHL needs them. The NHL has their choice of TSN, Sportsnet, The Score, CBC, Toronto1, LeafsTV, CHUM, A Channel, PPV etc to cover their games.

The NHL is king in Canada when it comes to sports. That's why TSN and Sportsnet need to fall in line so that they don't have to resort to spelling bees and cheerleading in prime time.
Yeah it certainly couldn't have anything to do with TSN having the highest bid or TSN being able to reach more TV sets accross Canada or the higher exposure .....

TSN has no leverage here what so ever....

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11-10-2004, 05:50 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by copperandblue
Yeah it certainly couldn't have anything to do with TSN having the highest bid or TSN being able to reach more TV sets accross Canada or the higher exposure .....

TSN has no leverage here what so ever....
Do you really think that TSN has a significantly greater reach then Sportsnet?

The NHL has more options then TSN. Bell has three tv stations dependent upon the NHL: TSN, ESPN Classic Canada and the NHL Network. If the NHL told them that Sportsnet is getting all their contracts now, what would they show on those three networks?

Or what is to stop the NHL from launching their own sports network? They could get coverage from coast to coast pretty quickly if it was the only place to watch the NHL outside of HNIC.

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11-10-2004, 10:28 PM
  #58
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The players are showing how greedy and out of touch they are with reality. They are the worst pro athletes especially chris chelios. They cant even listen to a legend like this and respect his opinions. They are so greedy they want more and more until the NHL is dead there some love for the game.

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11-10-2004, 11:56 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Go Flames Go
The players are showing how greedy and out of touch they are with reality. They are the worst pro athletes especially chris chelios. They cant even listen to a legend like this and respect his opinions. They are so greedy they want more and more until the NHL is dead there some love for the game.
If only Bicycle repairman saw it this way.

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Old
11-11-2004, 12:04 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
If only Bicycle repairman saw it this way.
Well, if the post made coherent sense, it would help mightily.

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Old
11-11-2004, 12:21 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Because all these media outlets have dealings with the NHL. TSN, Sportsnet, CHUM, etc. They all need to stay on the NHL's good side. On the other hand, if they tick off the PA who really cares if Be a Player stays on the air?

Do you think TSN wants to lose its national broadcast deal or all the footage they use for the NHL Network or ESPN Classic Canada? TSN has the most to lose if they don't tow the NHL's line. That's why their "respected" employees act like ownership shills. Listening to Pierre McGuire on the radio these days is a sickening experience. You can even hear the brown on his nose it is so blatant. They try to look impartial by putting their most inept employee, Glen Healy, on the air to back the players.
What a lot of rubbish. If a handful of outlets are pro-NHL then a handful would be pro-player just to stir the pot. Do you really believe that a newspaper/station wouldn't run a story where the found massive problems with a teams stated revenue? News loves a scandal, if they could break open a scheme they would and they will.

If the NHLPA are getting bad press it because they've been comprehensively thrashed in the PR war not because of any media bias. If the NHLPA wants to make a more positive impact they should get off their butts and start trying to turn the PR war around.

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11-11-2004, 08:15 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by me2
What a lot of rubbish. If a handful of outlets are pro-NHL then a handful would be pro-player just to stir the pot. Do you really believe that a newspaper/station wouldn't run a story where the found massive problems with a teams stated revenue? News loves a scandal, if they could break open a scheme they would and they will.
The key words there are "if they could". The only thing a guy like Bruce Garrioch could break open is a jelly filled donut. How many on air personalities at TSN or Sportsnet have an accounting background that goes further then hiring an accountant?

If the media so loves a scandal then why did it take a small New England paper to break the Eagleson scandal?

What do the stations have to benefit from being pro-PA? They get nothing from the PA. They know what side their bread is buttered on and its not the PA.

Ask the people at the Team in Vancouver if they think that the Canucks exert some power over their decisions.

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11-11-2004, 12:07 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Do you really think that TSN has a significantly greater reach then Sportsnet?
Nope, I do think that TSN put the best finacial proposal together for the package they show - which hinges on national broadcasts outside of the HNIC package.

I think that Sportsnet put the best financial package together for the regional team packages which cater to specific areas.

Both packages are in partnership with the NHL with none of the three party's really carrying any hammer in terms of broadcasting decisions.

These networks need the NHL on order to fill their space and sell their advertising.

The NHL needs these networks for both financial and exposure reasons.

One thing is for sure, if these two networks ever pulled the plug on NHL games at the same time the NHL would be hooped as far as reaching their target audience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
The NHL has more options then TSN. Bell has three tv stations dependent upon the NHL: TSN, ESPN Classic Canada and the NHL Network. If the NHL told them that Sportsnet is getting all their contracts now, what would they show on those three networks?
You honestly believe that that question boils down to just what Bell needs?

The NHL needs all the revenue and exposure it can get. Who cares if the NHL is king in Canada, if the NHL lost their exposure the ripple effect would start and the game would slide here as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Or what is to stop the NHL from launching their own sports network? They could get coverage from coast to coast pretty quickly if it was the only place to watch the NHL outside of HNIC.
Probably nothing but it would be a specialty channel.

Right now there are three accessible TV broadcasts that can cover a great majority of homes with TV sets. CBC with HNIC, TSN and Sportsnet all the other fluff that you list are specialty channels. None of them give the NHL exposure unless the viewer has already decided to purchase the channel as an extra - in which case exposure is a none issue.

I just don't understand how you can see TV as a one sided relationship. It's not they need each other and for the life of the league that will never change.


Just to throw an example out there of the TV stations not catering to the NHL's specific wishes. Don't you think that last spring after Bertuzzi jumped Moore that the league would have liked for no stations to replay or discuss what went on? DO you think they were happy with the new found black mark against the sport getting shown over and over anover again with comentary and analysis from ever arm chair critic in the country?

Funny that those same stations kept running the story.....

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Old
11-11-2004, 01:09 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leachmeister2000
Beliveau did sign one of the most lucrative contracts in NHL history at the time.
He had also been making more playing for the Quebec Aces than Howe or Richard in the NHL.

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11-11-2004, 02:21 PM
  #65
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Just to get the record straight. Beliveau did not shake down the Montreal Canadiens. At the time, he was a very popular player in Qubec City (just a notch below God actually). He was making ~$50K per year (unheard of at that time for a junior player). He was getting free cars, free restaurant meals, you name it.

He just wanted equivalent compensation to join Montreal. Why would he be any different then any other player?

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Old
11-11-2004, 03:25 PM
  #66
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Interesting that TSN is now reporting that Beliveau was quoted saying the same thing in an article by Red Fisher in 1994 complete with the "I've always backed the players" phrase back in 94.

Did the NHL provide Beliveau with the same script to read from that he had in 94?

Nice way for a legend to tarnish his legacy. He's either a shill or he's senile.

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11-11-2004, 04:38 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
I just don't understand how you can see TV as a one sided relationship. It's not they need each other and for the life of the league that will never change.


Just to throw an example out there of the TV stations not catering to the NHL's specific wishes. Don't you think that last spring after Bertuzzi jumped Moore that the league would have liked for no stations to replay or discuss what went on? DO you think they were happy with the new found black mark against the sport getting shown over and over anover again with comentary and analysis from ever arm chair critic in the country?

Funny that those same stations kept running the story.....
Funny how your post stopped the whole silly TV station argument. I cant understand how people think anything is a 1-sided relationship - TV stations, this whole labour dispute...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Interesting that TSN is now reporting that Beliveau was quoted saying the same thing in an article by Red Fisher in 1994 complete with the "I've always backed the players" phrase back in 94.

Did the NHL provide Beliveau with the same script to read from that he had in 94?

Nice way for a legend to tarnish his legacy. He's either a shill or he's senile.
Senile perhaps. He is 73. Just like my grandpa likes to tell me the same joke over and over, forgetting that he's tried to fool me with it for the last 5 years.

Speaking his opinion wont tarnish his legacy though. More people look up to that 73 year old, than will look up to you or me in our lifetimes.

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11-11-2004, 05:46 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
Nope, I do think that TSN put the best finacial proposal together for the package they show - which hinges on national broadcasts outside of the HNIC package.

I think that Sportsnet put the best financial package together for the regional team packages which cater to specific areas.

Both packages are in partnership with the NHL with none of the three party's really carrying any hammer in terms of broadcasting decisions.

These networks need the NHL on order to fill their space and sell their advertising.

The NHL needs these networks for both financial and exposure reasons.

One thing is for sure, if these two networks ever pulled the plug on NHL games at the same time the NHL would be hooped as far as reaching their target audience.
Not at all. The NHL existed long before TSN or Sportsnet. They will always have the CBC and nationwide exposure. They could have the rest of their games on PPV. They aren't too worried about find outlets for their product.

Canadians want to watch NHL hockey. They don't really care about whether it is on TSN or Sportsnet or wherever.

Quote:
You honestly believe that that question boils down to just what Bell needs?

The NHL needs all the revenue and exposure it can get. Who cares if the NHL is king in Canada, if the NHL lost their exposure the ripple effect would start and the game would slide here as well.
How did the game grow then if it didn't have the exposure it has now? Back when the only game on tv each week was HNIC, the game didn't slide.

For the sports networks, the NHL is one of a kind. There's no reasonable substitute. For the NHL, they can go with TSN or they can go with Sportsnet or they can go with The Score or they can go with PPV. They have the hammer over the networks even if they don't want to use it.

Quote:
Probably nothing but it would be a specialty channel.
And one that every cable and satellite company would offer. As well, many Canadians would subscribe to it.

Quote:
Just to throw an example out there of the TV stations not catering to the NHL's specific wishes. Don't you think that last spring after Bertuzzi jumped Moore that the league would have liked for no stations to replay or discuss what went on? DO you think they were happy with the new found black mark against the sport getting shown over and over anover again with comentary and analysis from ever arm chair critic in the country?

Funny that those same stations kept running the story.....
How could TSN or Sportsnet not cover the story? It was on freaking CNN. How would it look for Canada's sports networks to ignore a story that even US networks, that wouldn't know what colour a puck was, were covering it?

Besides it drew ratings. Every network was covering it.

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Old
11-11-2004, 05:56 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Interesting that TSN is now reporting that Beliveau was quoted saying the same thing in an article by Red Fisher in 1994 complete with the "I've always backed the players" phrase back in 94.

Did the NHL provide Beliveau with the same script to read from that he had in 94?

Nice way for a legend to tarnish his legacy. He's either a shill or he's senile.
Because he disagrees with a few chumps on a hockey board? Your tenuous hold on reality slips a little more. He's obviously got more brains than opinion, unlike yourself.

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11-11-2004, 07:51 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Cawz
Speaking his opinion wont tarnish his legacy though. More people look up to that 73 year old, than will look up to you or me in our lifetimes.
Exactly. Very strange comment by BRG. "Tarnish his legacy"? Right...

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11-11-2004, 08:03 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Cawz
Funny how your post stopped the whole silly TV station argument.
Sorry. I didnt mean to get the argument going again.

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11-11-2004, 09:09 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat
Because he disagrees with a few chumps on a hockey board?
No. Because he's either a liar or he's senile.

He blatantly contradicts himself. How can you always be with the players when he said that you were against them in the last dispute?

Combined with being employed by the team and his comments about how the players in his day were only interested in the game and for anyone with an ounce of intelligence, he looks like a stooge for the owners. He's peddling his reputation for the owners' money.

Quote:
Your tenuous hold on reality slips a little more. He's obviously got more brains than opinion, unlike yourself.
If you think that someone who is either caught in a lie or can't remember what he's said in the past has brains then you're the one who has the tenuous hold on reality.

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11-12-2004, 03:08 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by thinkwild
The players arent saying there arent problems, and have offered significant concessions and options for further bargaining, despite the cliche claims the offer was a joke.
If even Glenn Healy admits that the last offer from the PA wasn't a good one -- and he did, on the air -- just where do the significant concessions lie? The owners tell the players that they are losing $250 million/year, and the players turn around and offer them a one-time shot of $150-million. Hey, great concession!! The owners of the brand and the business are still supposed to lose $100-million for a season before the freight train gets rolling downhill again.

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11-12-2004, 01:13 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Kickabrat
Just to get the record straight. Beliveau did not shake down the Montreal Canadiens. At the time, he was a very popular player in Qubec City (just a notch below God actually). He was making ~$50K per year (unheard of at that time for a junior player). He was getting free cars, free restaurant meals, you name it.

He just wanted equivalent compensation to join Montreal. Why would he be any different then any other player?
Try ~20K, which was unheard of for NHL players at that time.

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11-12-2004, 07:24 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cully9
If even Glenn Healy admits that the last offer from the PA wasn't a good one -- and he did, on the air -- just where do the significant concessions lie? The owners tell the players that they are losing $250 million/year, and the players turn around and offer them a one-time shot of $150-million. Hey, great concession!! The owners of the brand and the business are still supposed to lose $100-million for a season before the freight train gets rolling downhill again.
Well in light of the new Forbes report, it could be that the players offer was more than fair. Especially when the problems of a few teams with arenas is soon solved. And others finishing writing off their assets at accelerated speeds are done. And NYR and Wash are developing instead of spending. The players offer and the continuing downward trend on salaries, its hard to see why the owners dont accept when their losses are being dealt with. Unless their only goal is breaking the union.

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