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Oilers beat the Sharks and Zebras in SO!!! 3-2!!!

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Old
03-07-2012, 12:50 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
I get the feeling Renney might even know his days are outnumbered especially having no contract in place for next year. Probably could care less about the outcome
I don't think so. I think it is fair game to question his coaching decisions, but to question whether he cares or not IMO is over the line.

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03-07-2012, 12:54 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Auguste Escoffier View Post
Spector just tweeted that he asked Renney all of "your" questions about Omark, and will air the interview on his show later today. Hopefully he asked Tom some uneasy questions.
He was asked that question last night.

Basically said you have to walk before you can run, not going to rush players etc, etc.

Just to be very clear. I do not agree, playing Omark with Belanger and Petrell was useless but giving Renney's response after the game.

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03-07-2012, 12:57 PM
  #178
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Yeah, well he should be but Renney is a big dummy so there's that.
thanks for the chuckle.

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03-07-2012, 01:45 PM
  #179
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Yeah, that was good.

Smyth was hooking every player it seemed too. He wont have such tired legs if he can just hitch rides all over the ice.

On a side note I hate this reffing. Less calls is one thing, but it needs to be consistent.
Oh man, I just seriously pee'd a little laughing at this.

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03-07-2012, 01:55 PM
  #180
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Anyone else feel we don't need Petrell and Jones?

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03-07-2012, 01:58 PM
  #181
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They probably received calls at the deadline about Omark and were less than impressed with the offers, so now they're showcasing him to try and package him at the draft for a defenseman.

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03-07-2012, 01:59 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Anyone else feel we don't need Petrell and Jones?
Jones needs to be shown the door if we want to be a competitive team. He just doesnt bring anything to the table other then the odd goal which were paying other players to produce.

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03-07-2012, 02:08 PM
  #183
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Jones needs to be shown the door if we want to be a competitive team. He just doesnt bring anything to the table other then the odd goal which were paying other players to produce.
He has more than twice as many goals as Hemsky and one less than Gagner.

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03-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by spOiler View Post
When i see this team do well its sad because i know they succeeded despite their coach instead of with help from their coach. Why even bring omark up if your gonna stick him on the 4th line is it to get your jolly off on saying hes not a good defensive checker? Like man even the sportsnet broadcasters are bashing him now.
I totally agree with this. I've given Renney the benefit of the doubt since he became head coach of this team. I even prayed he would take over the head coaching duties when Quinn was here and was thrilled when he got promoted. There were times last season and earlier this year that I questioned some of his decisions but even then I still had faith in him and figured this guy is an experienced coach in the best hockey league in the world, he must know something I don't. Unfortunately I have lost all faith in Renney and would like to see him far away from Edmonton before the start of next season.

Some of his decisions lately have been simply clueless and unjustified. Look at the last 2 games for example. In the game against the Ducks, Eberle nets one and suddenly we're right back in the game with the momentum on our side. With just over a minute left in the game there's still plenty of time to tie this one up. Seems like a simple decision to me, call a timeout to rest our young legs and get the best offensive guys out there, right? What does Renney do? He goes with Belanger and Smyth when we desperately need a goal. Frigging Clueless!!!

Now onto last night's game. I'm not gonna get into the whole RNH PP argument because I've read good points from both sides of the debate, not to mention we're tops in the league on the PP, so how can you argue against that? I will, however, question what the hell Renney is doing with Schultz. Schultz has been a defensive force in this league for years. He is probably the best defensive dman on this team and under any other coach in this league would be a top 4 guy for us. Under Renney he is playing under 20 minutes a game. Last night he averaged a little over 18 min which was the least minutes out of all of our dmen including Potter and Peckham. Just looking at those stats pisses me off. Especially when I see Whitney, who has been our worst dman lately, getting 25+ minutes a game. With respect to Omark, what was the point in even calling him up if he's only gonna get 10 minutes and play with scrubs? I thought the whole reason for calling him up was to give him another chance at proving he can play in this league in the top 6 role. How to hell is he getting a fair chance when he's playing on the 3rd line and getting the least amount of minutes on the team?

Like I said before, I always gave Renney the benefit of the doubt, but now nothing would make me happier than taking a page out of Toronto's book and hearing "FIRE RENNEY" chants from the stands, with hopefully the same results, when the play the Canadiens Thursday. Maybe then Tambo will get the hint and cut this cancer we have in Renney lose.

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03-07-2012, 02:32 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
So Gagner = RNH on the PP? Yes or no?Just FYI:

Sam Gagner's last 126gp. 8-12-20 on the PP in 152:38 minutes this year and 200:18 last year for a total of 352:56 minutes.

RNH in 46 career games 3-17-20 on the PP in 148:08 minutes

Now just because our PP is still number 1 because the damn thing has been almost as hard to find as the Loch Ness Monster since the refs stopped handing them out, it doesn't mean that all is fine in the world and that we should turn a blind eye to the PP. Never mind that RNH has contributed 2 PP points since his return in spite of being on the 2nd unit of a rare PP. The fact of the matter is that it is beyond ridiculous to have RNH on the 2nd PP unit over a player like Gagner, Gagner is a 2nd unit PP guy, when he's been a fixture on our top unit before it has never been anywhere near as good as it has been this year. I can see the idea of spreading the wealth at ES, but on the PP you need to load up the top unit and go to work ESPECIALLY when you are lucky to see 1-2PP's a game. So yes there is a problem with the PP, its scarcity and the personnel.
Nice puttting words in my mouth, you know I didn't state anything of the sort.
No, theres not a problem with the PP, there really isn't. I'm not sure what else to say here.


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03-07-2012, 02:34 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Jones needs to be shown the door if we want to be a competitive team. He just doesnt bring anything to the table other then the odd goal which were paying other players to produce.
completely disagree. Jones is one of our bottom 6ers who can actually score

Classic 'what have you done for me lately' syndrome.

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03-07-2012, 02:45 PM
  #187
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How about both. Shouldn't you be playing your best players, and in positions for them (and the team) to succeed? Or are you in the camp that also believes Cam Barker needs to be playing as well?
I don't have the slightest ****ing clue why RNH isn't playing on the #1 PP right now.

But people who think Renney is suddenly oblivious to the fact that RNH produced well on it are just being silly IMO.

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03-07-2012, 02:59 PM
  #188
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completely disagree. Jones is one of our bottom 6ers who can actually score

Classic 'what have you done for me lately' syndrome.
Ya I don't understand how anyone can say Jones doesn't belong here. Good teams always have character guys in the bottom 6 just like Jones

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03-07-2012, 03:10 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Anyone else feel we don't need Petrell and Jones?
I don't know about need ... but I have zero problem with both Jones and Petrell returning next year. They're solid fourth liners, who can be moved up the lineup if need be.

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03-07-2012, 03:21 PM
  #190
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jeebus they won the game last night didn't they? and all thats on here is bleep bleep bleep moan cry weep RNH isn't on the #1 pp unit.
Grats Oil on the hard fought win last night. Fellow Oil fans, relax, have a smoke (left handed or regular) maybe a brewski and enjoy the fact that our team won.

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03-07-2012, 03:22 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
Really now....

Call me skeptical.


I mean, I see people saying that there is "significant room for improvement" on the PP because we don't score on 78% of our Powerplays.

The power play is not a problem with this team. We're not going to see significant improvement in team performance at this point. It's not like RNH is going to boost it up to 30% or some record breaking number all on his own.

At this point I have a hard time imagining that people are upset because they think our team is less effective. I genuinely believe people just want to feel warm and fuzzy by having RNH rack up some points.
But one could also probably argue that having RNH take Belanger's spot on the 4th line and moving him and Horcoff up a notch would not have a significant impact on the remainder of the Oiler's season. Does that mean it is the right thing to do.

Regardless of the Calder or not, having Horcoff and Gagner out on the ice for the first pp unit while RNH and to a lesser degree Smyth sit and watch is a misuse of this teams rather limited resources.

I guess one could argue that Horcoff is out on the ice because of his faceoff ability because to suppose he is better crowding the net then Smyth makes little sense. Of course Smyth has won 63% of his draws on the pp to Horcoffs 51% though admitedly Smyth's numbers are based on a smaller sample size.

And of course Gagner over RNH begs the question. What skill if any does Gagner have that makes him better than RNH in any aspect of play on the pp?

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03-07-2012, 03:30 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Anyone else feel we don't need Petrell and Jones?
I am fine with keeping any 2 of Eager, Jones, and Petrell. I see all of them as 4th line players that can get hot for periods and play on the 3rd line in a pinch, perhaps with Jones a bit better than the other two. I know each of them has their supporters, but we have to be realistic. On a cup contending team these guys are 4th line players. We need better checking options than them if we are ever to go deep in the playoffs. I am kinda hoping we move Jones, because he could have some value with his high goal totals.

Whitney + Jones for the rights to Suter, if we can work out an extension?

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03-07-2012, 03:35 PM
  #193
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But one could also probably argue that having RNH take Belanger's spot on the 4th line and moving him and Horcoff up a notch would not have a significant impact on the remainder of the Oiler's season. Does that mean it is the right thing to do.

Regardless of the Calder or not, having Horcoff and Gagner out on the ice for the first pp unit while RNH and to a lesser degree Smyth sit and watch is a misuse of this teams rather limited resources.

I guess one could argue that Horcoff is out on the ice because of his faceoff ability because to suppose he is better crowding the net then Smyth makes little sense. Of course Smyth has won 63% of his draws on the pp to Horcoffs 51% though admitedly Smyth's numbers are based on a smaller sample size.

And of course Gagner over RNH begs the question. What skill if any does Gagner have that makes him better than RNH in any aspect of play on the pp?
Two theories I like most from myself:

1) Pumping up Gagner's numbers for a trade. This makes the most sense for me.

2) Giving other people a chance on the power play because RNH is already quite good. It's not like a loss makes a world of difference at this point in the stage. As many others have said: What have we got to lose. I think this is possible, though probably less likely.


At this point of the season I think decisions go beyond "Will this get us a win" and more along the lines of "How does this affect the development of our players going forward."


People have already stated that RNH is a fantastic PP player. So much so that he'd be able to make a measurable improvement to a PP that still did well even when he was out.

For the same reasons I don't **** on Renney for managing the playing time of the kids more than everyone else, I especially see this time of the season to get opportunity.

People have been harping on the lack of "meaningful games" right now. Might as well making them meaningful from an organizational point of view.

I'd also like to see Omark get a better opportunity. Hopefully he does going forward. Unless Renney's concerns with Omark are NOT in the offensive zone, at which point I have no issue with Omark even being put with Belanger and Smyth.

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03-07-2012, 03:42 PM
  #194
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But one could also probably argue that having RNH take Belanger's spot on the 4th line and moving him and Horcoff up a notch would not have a significant impact on the remainder of the Oiler's season. Does that mean it is the right thing to do.

Regardless of the Calder or not, having Horcoff and Gagner out on the ice for the first pp unit while RNH and to a lesser degree Smyth sit and watch is a misuse of this teams rather limited resources.

I guess one could argue that Horcoff is out on the ice because of his faceoff ability because to suppose he is better crowding the net then Smyth makes little sense. Of course Smyth has won 63% of his draws on the pp to Horcoffs 51% though admitedly Smyth's numbers are based on a smaller sample size.

And of course Gagner over RNH begs the question. What skill if any does Gagner have that makes him better than RNH in any aspect of play on the pp?
Complete comfort rotating/transitioning to any position on the pp unit including the point to keep the puck moving and retain possession. That and Gagner being night and day better on the dot right now then RNH.

An effective unit is not just about skill. Its about cohesive working parts that mesh well together and performing different roles. Its a sum of the parts argument, not just about the individual skill parts.

This is no knock on RNH either, not at all, I'm a huge fan of him. But some of the parts he brings to the PP are still works in progress.

Again he's a rookie. I don't see the problem here or that it needs to be a controversy.


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03-07-2012, 03:46 PM
  #195
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Complete comfort rotating/transitioning to any position on the pp unit including the point to keep the puck moving and retain possession. That and Gagner being night and day better on the dot right now then RNH.

An effective unit is not just about skill. Its about cohesive working parts that mesh well together and performing different roles.

This is no knock on RNH either, not at all, I'm a huge fan of him. But some of the parts he brings to the PP are still works in progress.

Again he's a rookie. I don't see the problem here or that it needs to be a controversy.
I'll give you that he is better on the dot. I have actually been quite impressed by his improvement in that regard. As to the first part, I simply don't see it. In fact, I would say that RNH is far superior to Gagner in this respect.

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03-07-2012, 03:48 PM
  #196
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Doesn't Horcoff take the PP face-offs?

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03-07-2012, 03:52 PM
  #197
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Two theories I like most from myself:

1) Pumping up Gagner's numbers for a trade. This makes the most sense for me.

2) Giving other people a chance on the power play because RNH is already quite good. It's not like a loss makes a world of difference at this point in the stage. As many others have said: What have we got to lose. I think this is possible, though probably less likely.


At this point of the season I think decisions go beyond "Will this get us a win" and more along the lines of "How does this affect the development of our players going forward."


People have already stated that RNH is a fantastic PP player. So much so that he'd be able to make a measurable improvement to a PP that still did well even when he was out.

For the same reasons I don't **** on Renney for managing the playing time of the kids more than everyone else, I especially see this time of the season to get opportunity.

People have been harping on the lack of "meaningful games" right now. Might as well making them meaningful from an organizational point of view.

I'd also like to see Omark get a better opportunity. Hopefully he does going forward. Unless Renney's concerns with Omark are NOT in the offensive zone, at which point I have no issue with Omark even being put with Belanger and Smyth.
I could actually buy 1) as even though I like Gagner it is my personal opinion that he is not the right sort of complementary player to go forward with.

2) Makes no sense if the pp has Hall, Eberle, Horcoff and Gagner as fixtures.

As to Omark, the Oilers really have only a few more games to make a decision on him. He will be waiver eligible after three more games and he is an RFA that could easily play out the string in the SEL until he is a UFA. It is 100% clear that a fourth line winger is not his destiny with this team. So why not try him in the slots that he might fill if he is to remain with the team.

At the very least some success may up his trade value. If he fails, then there will be a parting of the ways, which is almost surely exactly where we are headed right now.

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03-07-2012, 03:53 PM
  #198
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Complete comfort rotating/transitioning to any position on the pp unit including the point to keep the puck moving and retain possession. That and Gagner being night and day better on the dot right now then RNH.

An effective unit is not just about skill. Its about cohesive working parts that mesh well together and performing different roles. Its a sum of the parts argument, not just about the individual skill parts.

This is no knock on RNH either, not at all, I'm a huge fan of him. But some of the parts he brings to the PP are still works in progress.

Again he's a rookie. I don't see the problem here or that it needs to be a controversy.
Horcoff takes the faceoffs on the PP, not Gagner or RNH so the faceoff argument is moot.

Yes, he's a rookie but he's a rookie that is light years better than Sam on the PP who is a 5 year pro.
I don't even know what you're talking about with the meshing stuff, are you saying that Gagner meshes better than RNH with the higher skilled players?
Also, if RNH is a work in progress on the PP then what is Gagner?

This is a controversy because you seem to think (and i have no idea why) that Gagner is a better fit for the top unit than RNH.

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03-07-2012, 03:54 PM
  #199
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I'll give you that he is better on the dot. I have actually been quite impressed by his improvement in that regard. As to the first part, I simply don't see it. In fact, I would say that RNH is far superior to Gagner in this respect.
You should see it. Of any forward on this club nobody rotates back to play D or on the point more than Gagner. Thats been the case all season here. Gagner is completely comfortable covering high or on the point or rotating into and out of those areas.

Its been his assignment. So it is as well on the PP. With Gagner on the ice 4 forwards on the PP is automatic. A good idea.

Its a moot point anyway. RNH is better, and always will be better. The temporary configuration is just due to RNH being a rookie and giving him time to fill his socks gradually in respective roles.

I want you to remember something. When he first stayed up on the team there was lots of concern about "way too early" "overwork him" "expect way too much too soon and its overwhelming for a young player" etc.

With regular expressed concerns about his development.

So the Oilers are seen to pace out RNH's development and now thats somehow a problem? I would think its wht they should be doing with a player this young.

He's a rookie. A damn good one, but why are we even having this convo in the rookie season of an 18yr old.

Plenty of time to take the throne.

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03-07-2012, 03:54 PM
  #200
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Im seriously confused at Renney's coaching decisions...RNH connects with Eberle on pp in anaheim but then against the sharks hands of stone horcoff over Nuge? Also I understand that He wants to slowly integrate Omark into the game but seriously? burying him with petrel and belanger is just cruel... Omark carried that line last night and when Hemsky missed a shift Jones was moved up and not Omark....


It all comes down to Renney is deliberately coaching to lose or he is a dumbass and has no idea what he is doing anymore.... I know which one I believe...
Would you really want RNH standing in front of the net and taking point shots to the back? Not to mention crosschecks?

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