HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Tremblay: Gauthier Running Habs like KGB

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-08-2012, 03:16 PM
  #201
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal4Life View Post
I know you that CSIS is not exactly the KGB ( Canadian Security INtelligence Service) but you are not helping your case by calling them the CIA

And they are actually very efficient, its just not public (nor should it be). And yeah, I do know. Can't say more than that.
Since the only thing I heard about them without having actually researched them is the various scandals they have been into over the past 30 years, and that Canada happens to have the reputation of being a fertile ground for industrial espionage.. Its done a poor job giving us the feeling otherwise.

I'm sure they actually are composed of very smart and professional people. It's just that the public track record ain't shining, and it had a tendency of compromising itself or some of it's agents for purely political reasons.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:18 PM
  #202
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issacar View Post
Latendresse was traded during hte off season actually.
Nope

November 23, 2009
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=507207

This was however slightly after Molson took over, so I was wrong on that timing.

Still all the reports at the time were that Martin was not impressed with Lats.

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:43 PM
  #203
MathMan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 17,025
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
does it really surprise you that people appreciate working with/interacting with those who make their jobs easier?
No, but it becomes an issue when it becomes the most important thing a GM/coach/player is judged for, before actually doing their job as a GM/coach/player.

Yes, journalists are, by definition, communications people. But they can't judge sports people primarily on their performance as communications people (or worse, with their performance as media facilitators) because that is not these guys' main job. Yet sometimes it seems that certain members on the media will not, or cannot, come up with a barometer that goes further does "how much and how respectfully does he talk to the media"?

And inevitably, the media will try to cast themselves as the representatives of the fanbase, and equate "communications with the media" with "respect for the fans".

MathMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:50 PM
  #204
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,682
vCash: 500
Didn't PG become head scout of Quebec in 87 thru 93, and pretty much drafted the Avs team that won the cup in with the core of Foote, Sakic, Nolan, (Sundin)? Also most likely asked for Forsberg in the Lindros trade? Also how many of the guys did PG bring in to the Sens of the late 90's? Someone mentioned it earlier to, that after PG left the Ducks, they went to the Stanley Cup finals with 90% of the guys that he brought in, anyone confirm, or know somewhere I can check all this?

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 03:59 PM
  #205
Issacar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commandant View Post
Nope

November 23, 2009
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=507207

This was however slightly after Molson took over, so I was wrong on that timing.

Still all the reports at the time were that Martin was not impressed with Lats.
More impressed with Benoit Pouliot I guess?

Issacar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 04:07 PM
  #206
Captain Smurf
Naively Optimistic
 
Captain Smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Thornhill, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Didn't PG become head scout of Quebec in 87 thru 93, and pretty much drafted the Avs team that won the cup in with the core of Foote, Sakic, Nolan, (Sundin)? Also most likely asked for Forsberg in the Lindros trade? Also how many of the guys did PG bring in to the Sens of the late 90's? Someone mentioned it earlier to, that after PG left the Ducks, they went to the Stanley Cup finals with 90% of the guys that he brought in, anyone confirm, or know somewhere I can check all this?
didn't they also have 3 straight first overalls and got a kings ransom for Lindros, who refused to play in Quebec? It was also 75% of the Ducks team, and most of the new guys were the big contributors. As for the Senators, Kekalainen was the one who made the real finds.

Captain Smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 04:11 PM
  #207
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
Especially since it was Lapierre that asked for a trade.
Why do people keep repeating this nonsense? Lapierre asked to be used like he should be. He wanted to feel like Martin cared about him and what he can do for this team. Lapierre felt he deserved at least some PK time. So at worst, it was a "I want to play more or else". But why the heck didn't we go with....PLAYING HIM MORE?

There is a difference between I want to go no matter how I'm used and I want to feel like I'M part of this team, if not, I'll play for a team who want me. Isn't that legit? So he didn't ask for a trade. He asked to be used more. He was then traded because Martin didn't like him. Period. We have a coach who is alert, Lapierre is still with us. The guy can do the job for a Cup finalist, but hey....not good enough for a 29th team in the league.

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 04:13 PM
  #208
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Smurf View Post
didn't they also have 3 straight first overalls and got a kings ransom for Lindros, who refused to play in Quebec? It was also 75% of the Ducks team, and most of the new guys were the big contributors. As for the Senators, Kekalainen was the one who made the real finds.
Thx

I did some googling, they took Nolan and Sundin with the first overall picks, but Sakic was a mid first and Foote was a 2nd round pick. As for the Lindros trade, I'm not sure how many of those other guys were prospects, but seeing how Forsberg was from that draft class, I'm only guessin that PG had asked for him being in the day.

habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 04:20 PM
  #209
Optimus Price
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gatineau
Country: Faroe Islands
Posts: 1,201
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Since the only thing I heard about them without having actually researched them is the various scandals they have been into over the past 30 years, and that Canada happens to have the reputation of being a fertile ground for industrial espionage.. Its done a poor job giving us the feeling otherwise.

I'm sure they actually are composed of very smart and professional people. It's just that the public track record ain't shining, and it had a tendency of compromising itself or some of it's agents for purely political reasons.
You are right. Anyone who claims that CSIS is a good, secretive agency are absolute clueless. Their history of screw ups is pretty telling, just like their Anti-Quebec mentality they had (and that some still have) and can't do much against spying from China, Russia, etc. Like the other guy said, I can say : I do know, too. And it's not hearsays. Can't say more than that. ()

Optimus Price is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 04:25 PM
  #210
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,135
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Why do people keep repeating this nonsense? Lapierre asked to be used like he should be. He wanted to feel like Martin cared about him and what he can do for this team. Lapierre felt he deserved at least some PK time. So at worst, it was a "I want to play more or else". But why the heck didn't we go with....PLAYING HIM MORE?

There is a difference between I want to go no matter how I'm used and I want to feel like I'M part of this team, if not, I'll play for a team who want me. Isn't that legit? So he didn't ask for a trade. He asked to be used more. He was then traded because Martin didn't like him. Period. We have a coach who is alert, Lapierre is still with us. The guy can do the job for a Cup finalist, but hey....not good enough for a 29th team in the league.
Yup. The guy wanted to play more than 6 minutes a game. He was traded. And you know what? He'd be pretty damn good on this team right now. That trade still bothers me.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 04:27 PM
  #211
Issacar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 943
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Why do people keep repeating this nonsense? Lapierre asked to be used like he should be. He wanted to feel like Martin cared about him and what he can do for this team. Lapierre felt he deserved at least some PK time. So at worst, it was a "I want to play more or else". But why the heck didn't we go with....PLAYING HIM MORE?

There is a difference between I want to go no matter how I'm used and I want to feel like I'M part of this team, if not, I'll play for a team who want me. Isn't that legit? So he didn't ask for a trade. He asked to be used more. He was then traded because Martin didn't like him. Period. We have a coach who is alert, Lapierre is still with us. The guy can do the job for a Cup finalist, but hey....not good enough for a 29th team in the league.
I entirely agree with you.

Issacar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 04:29 PM
  #212
Forsead
Registered User
 
Forsead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Québec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Why do people keep repeating this nonsense? Lapierre asked to be used like he should be. He wanted to feel like Martin cared about him and what he can do for this team. Lapierre felt he deserved at least some PK time. So at worst, it was a "I want to play more or else". But why the heck didn't we go with....PLAYING HIM MORE?

There is a difference between I want to go no matter how I'm used and I want to feel like I'M part of this team, if not, I'll play for a team who want me. Isn't that legit? So he didn't ask for a trade. He asked to be used more. He was then traded because Martin didn't like him. Period. We have a coach who is alert, Lapierre is still with us. The guy can do the job for a Cup finalist, but hey....not good enough for a 29th team in the league.
He said he had a conversation with Pierre Gauthier just before and they figured out that he needed to get traded, because he needed a fresh start and wasn't used like he wanted. That's pretty much asking for a trade when you go to the GM talking about that. I don't say it isn't also management fault, but Lapierre wasn't playing at his best either. Then again he didn't played more minutes in Anaheim or in Vancouver so JM was kind of right somewhat.

Forsead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 04:45 PM
  #213
Myron Gaines*
Trop Giou
 
Myron Gaines*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,391
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Why do people keep repeating this nonsense? Lapierre asked to be used like he should be. He wanted to feel like Martin cared about him and what he can do for this team. Lapierre felt he deserved at least some PK time. So at worst, it was a "I want to play more or else". But why the heck didn't we go with....PLAYING HIM MORE?

There is a difference between I want to go no matter how I'm used and I want to feel like I'M part of this team, if not, I'll play for a team who want me. Isn't that legit? So he didn't ask for a trade. He asked to be used more. He was then traded because Martin didn't like him. Period. We have a coach who is alert, Lapierre is still with us. The guy can do the job for a Cup finalist, but hey....not good enough for a 29th team in the league.
Perfect 4th line centre right there.

Myron Gaines* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 06:40 PM
  #214
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,118
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Optimus Price View Post
You are right. Anyone who claims that CSIS is a good, secretive agency are absolute clueless. Their history of screw ups is pretty telling, just like their Anti-Quebec mentality they had (and that some still have) and can't do much against spying from China, Russia, etc. Like the other guy said, I can say : I do know, too. And it's not hearsays. Can't say more than that. ()
I am not sure if you are making fun of me, or anything of the kind. But if you do know, good for you. I don't claim that I do, I just say what has been MY perception of the Intelligence Agency. Again, it's not like I went out of my way to do research on them, so a more perused look might show a better picture.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 07:28 PM
  #215
habtastic
Registered User
 
habtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mumbai via MTL
Country: India
Posts: 9,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
He said he had a conversation with Pierre Gauthier just before and they figured out that he needed to get traded, because he needed a fresh start and wasn't used like he wanted. That's pretty much asking for a trade when you go to the GM talking about that. I don't say it isn't also management fault, but Lapierre wasn't playing at his best either. Then again he didn't played more minutes in Anaheim or in Vancouver so JM was kind of right somewhat.
I really loved Lappy and I do wish we had him, but the truth is that, as you point out he wanted more than he was getting ice time wise. This is different from the other headcases we've had, because Laps really cared about the team overall, BUT in light of the fact that he just assumed the same secondary/tertiary...quanternary (?) role on other teams shows me that it's because he became so much of a fan favourite, he couldn't not want that. When these guys go to other places where people don't care or that are swamped with talent and they aren't the homeboy, they seem to accept less ice time or to play into the coache's system more.

This is why I think Leblanc will be awesome with us. He has all the reason to be a primadonna, but I really get the impression that he will be like Pleks and just do what's best for the team no matter how many standing Os he gets. Players like that are going to help us progress. Eller also seems to have a good attitude.

habtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2012, 09:20 PM
  #216
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,182
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
No, but it becomes an issue when it becomes the most important thing a GM/coach/player is judged for, before actually doing their job as a GM/coach/player.

Yes, journalists are, by definition, communications people. But they can't judge sports people primarily on their performance as communications people (or worse, with their performance as media facilitators) because that is not these guys' main job. Yet sometimes it seems that certain members on the media will not, or cannot, come up with a barometer that goes further does "how much and how respectfully does he talk to the media"?

And inevitably, the media will try to cast themselves as the representatives of the fanbase, and equate "communications with the media" with "respect for the fans".
Winning is, and remains the #1 thing a GM gets judged for, even in Montreal.

Gainey, whose first 3 seasons provided mediocre results, and who, like Gauthier, is not particularly open/talkative with the media, didn't get anywhere near the negative attention Gauthier has... Simply bc the on ice product was somewhat improved over previous seasons.

Gauthier has a target on his back first and foremost bc of his mistakes as a GM, the vitriol is much worse bc of his ineptitude in dealing with & respecting the people covering the team.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2012, 03:32 PM
  #217
Schooner Guy
Registered User
 
Schooner Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,660
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Why do people keep repeating this nonsense? Lapierre asked to be used like he should be. He wanted to feel like Martin cared about him and what he can do for this team. Lapierre felt he deserved at least some PK time. So at worst, it was a "I want to play more or else". But why the heck didn't we go with....PLAYING HIM MORE?

There is a difference between I want to go no matter how I'm used and I want to feel like I'M part of this team, if not, I'll play for a team who want me. Isn't that legit? So he didn't ask for a trade. He asked to be used more. He was then traded because Martin didn't like him. Period. We have a coach who is alert, Lapierre is still with us. The guy can do the job for a Cup finalist, but hey....not good enough for a 29th team in the league.
28th place Whitesnake.....28th!

Schooner Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2012, 04:28 PM
  #218
LaurentHabs
Wat.
 
LaurentHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,692
vCash: 500

LaurentHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2012, 05:53 PM
  #219
JHabs61
Registered User
 
JHabs61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 967
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurentHabs View Post
This is great. Nice find

JHabs61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2012, 06:49 PM
  #220
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 8,770
vCash: 500
While Tremblay is playing the OMG card once again, and while his 'sources' might be himself talking nothing more (he's known for that, him and Michel Blanchard), he's not off the mark regarding Pierre Gauthier's obsession with secrecy. That's how he ran the ship in Ottawa. In the Nation's Capital, it was easy because the reporters there were novices when it came to covering the NHL. And they were eating in the organisation hand so to speak for the first 10-15 years. And even today...

But he was a control freak. And still is. At the same time, he's been very good for Molson, because he's a known cost-cutter. He'd be the type to have the players pay $1 for a can of pop in the locker room, a la Billy Beane.

On the other hand, people are giving him way too much credit for what happened with the Merdiques. He wasn't the brains behind the drafts. And don't forget that drafting 1st overall so many years was pretty easy. The Merdiques made a science out of finishing dead last. In Ottawa, he did not draft that great. And in Anaheim, without Burke's moves, the Ducks would have failed miserably. Gauthier got RID of one of their major stars right after saying he wouldn't. He's a known lier (go as the reporters in Ottawa and Anaheim, or go ask the Hens' ex-owners at the time).

And he managed this team into finishing close to last this season. Yeah, he made some good moves. But fact of the matter is: you are managing one of the richest franchises in the league, it is your duty to acheive excellence every year. If you fail, you get fired.

deandebean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2012, 06:49 PM
  #221
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 8,770
vCash: 500
Martin Madden was a much more important piece at the draft than the Vegan Ghost himself.

deandebean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2012, 06:55 PM
  #222
Artie
Registered User
 
Artie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal, Que
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,101
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
If you fail, you get fired.
If the owner feels that way.

Artie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-11-2012, 06:56 PM
  #223
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,427
vCash: 500
Maybe PG is more like a Dadaist? I think when the other 29 GMs look at Gauthier this is what they see:


JLP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.