Turris's ceiling is a 70-75pt 2-way number 1 center, not saying that he'll ever reach it...but I think your selling the guy a little short here.
I just don't see it.. at all.
The kid is scrawny and its not like he's 18 anymore. He's turning 23 this summer...
When's the last time a kid suddenly "filled out" in the NHL at age 23?
He has some skills, and I'm not saying he's a bad player, but I don't see him being 75pt guy ever. If he got 60 every year, sure, its a bit more than I think, but its reasonable. 75 is very close to a point per game, which only a small handfull of centers do every year. All of which are elite, and/or 1sr liners.
He's a 2nd line talent. Hodgson is better and he's not a 75pt guy.
I think Weiss is a decent comparison for production.
[QUOTE=Billy Madison;45694369]Turris has actually has shown something in the NHL that would indicate he is capable of playing at that kind of level. Rundblad has shown nothing, absolutely nothing that says he can even be in the NHL full time because of how poor of a player he is without the puck and in his own zone. Not to mention the fact he makes extremely poor decisions with the puck when he has it.
Rundblad's problems on small ice are not obvious, they are scary. At this point, a "realistic" expectation for Rundblad is he is at least another full season from being an NHL player, minimum. He may not ever be good enough on the defensive end or without the puck to be a legit, NHL top 4 D man. It's just as likely that he bottoms out as a #6 guy who gets PP time.
Wouldn't you have said the same about Turris, in 2009-2010? Cuz he had shown nothing at that point and based on your logic.. he must have been a career 4th liner...
I think its ridiculous that you are saying a rookie defenceman who is what? 20yrs old, and has played something like 26 games, is basically a bust. Defencemen take time to develop and adapt.
Wouldn't you have said the same about Turris, in 2009-2010? Cuz he had shown nothing at that point and based on your logic.. he must have been a career 4th liner...
I think its ridiculous that you are saying a rookie defenceman who is what? 20yrs old, and has played something like 26 games, is basically a bust. Defencemen take time to develop and adapt.
We must have a really different definition of "greatness".
As for the Greening goal, great pass. What player in the NHL hasn't made a great play once? You want me to bring up some Cheechoo goals? Rundblad defensive struggles and play away from the puck isn't anywhere near NHL ready, it's barely AHL ready based on the fact he has such large trouble with the smaller ice I do wonder if he will ever be a legit NHL player and if he does become a legit NHL player it will be in the Brian Lee type role where he plays protected minutes and ok the PP vs Brian Lee being on the PK.
I'm not saying he's a bust, that's a statement. I'm saying I don't think Rundblad is going to be that NHL all-star some believe he is going to be or even be a capable top 4 NHL Dman.
I'm not a fan of Rundblad, I hate the way he plays the game, and to be perfectly honest I think he ends up back in Europe full time somewhere between 28-30. I think Ottawa sold at Rundblad's very highest value for a player they needed in the short and long term who is actually a better player than Rundblad.
I honestly couldn't believe how some posters turned on rundblad saying stuff like he wont adjust, will always be soft on D and will never amount to anything more then a 5th/6th dman pp QB specialist. Wonder what was said about karlsson when he struggled on D in his first year and was sent down to the AHL.
I never saw the point of posters spewing garbage when a young talented player is traded.
I honestly couldn't believe how some posters turned on rundblad saying stuff like he wont adjust, will always be soft on D and will never amount to anything more then a 5th/6th dman pp QB specialist. Wonder what was said about karlsson when he struggled on D in his first year and was sent down to the AHL.
I never saw the point of posters spewing garbage when a young talented player is traded.
I've never said a bad word about Karlsson so... I said all the same things about Rundblad when he was in Ottawa.
I've stated what I believe so I guess time will tell.
I've never said a bad word about Karlsson so... I said all the same things about Rundblad when he was in Ottawa.
I've stated what I believe so I guess time will tell.
Fair enough. I see rundblad being way more then a frindge nhl player. A #2-3 dman that can QB your powerplay while being solid in his own end is his ceiling IMO. Just remember defense can be taught, but offensive instincts cant.
I honestly couldn't believe how some posters turned on rundblad saying stuff like he wont adjust, will always be soft on D and will never amount to anything more then a 5th/6th dman pp QB specialist. Wonder what was said about karlsson when he struggled on D in his first year and was sent down to the AHL.
I never saw the point of posters spewing garbage when a young talented player is traded.
Do you really wanna start playing this game with me? I never turned on anybody, and I have a ton of old posts to back me up.
A) I never turned on Rundblad, I was never high on him in the first place, and my opinion hasn't changed since he got traded.
B) I was high on Karlsson even when he was struggling early in his rookie season, because you could tell in his style of play that he was going to be something special. Rundbland hasn't shown any of that.
I'm sure Rundblad will adjust his game and become a servicable defenseman, but he won't be anything special, and he wont reach anywhere near the kind of dominance he experienced in the SEL last year.
Turris has actually has shown something in the NHL that would indicate he is capable of playing at that kind of level. Rundblad has shown nothing, absolutely nothing that says he can even be in the NHL full time because of how poor of a player he is without the puck and in his own zone. Not to mention the fact he makes extremely poor decisions with the puck when he has it.
Rundblad's problems on small ice are not obvious, they are scary. At this point, a "realistic" expectation for Rundblad is he is at least another full season from being an NHL player, minimum. He may not ever be good enough on the defensive end or without the puck to be a legit, NHL top 4 D man. It's just as likely that he bottoms out as a #6 guy who gets PP time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Madison
Wouldn't you have said the same about Turris, in 2009-2010? Cuz he had shown nothing at that point and based on your logic.. he must have been a career 4th liner...
I think its ridiculous that you are saying a rookie defenceman who is what? 20yrs old, and has played something like 26 games, is basically a bust. Defencemen take time to develop and adapt.
Rundblad is 1 year younger then Turris. 1 year. Turris has shown something that we have lacked since the regime of Jaques Martin, rolling more then one line that is a scoring threat game in, game out. Spezza's has been the only constant offensive threat since then, and now with Turris, whether or not they have gone in, we are seeing another line create scoring chances every game.
Rundblad will eventually be a great defenseman, no doubt in my mind, and I think we overpaid for Turris at that point in his career, but I know we are much better off with Turris then we would be with Rundblad.
I see him being the premier second line center in the league next year putting up 60ish points, and by the time he is 25-26 I think he will be a legit 1st line center. (I am very high on him, watching him play with the sens this year, you can see why some teams had him ranked first overall, his offensive instincts are the best on the team aside from Spezza, Karl and Alfie, and he has the tools to execute many different types of plays, passing, shooting, stick handling and skating)
IMO he is easily the best young offensive threat (among Forwards) we have had through our system since Spezza.
Fair enough. I see rundblad being way more then a frindge nhl player. A #2-3 dman that can QB your powerplay while being solid in his own end is his ceiling IMO. Just remember defense can be taught, but offensive instincts cant.
I'm happy about the trade long term though.
The way I look at Rundblad vs Karlsson is this...
Karlsson controls the game, he dicates how fast or slow the game will be played and when he had control of the puck he basically does what he wants.
Rundblad's game when he has the puck is high risk and looks for big plays, he doesn't control anything out there, in fact I would say he is out of control. I hate that and IMO those types of players don't last in the NHL.
Defense can be taught but attitudes and a general view on the game are nearly impossible to change. Rundblad is too laid back and he does things that are too high risk along with being soft in a lot of area's. Just don't like him as a player.
Rundblad and Turris will both top out at about 60 points. Rundblad's average will be 40-45 and Turris will be 55-60. Turris will likely have a season or two in the 65-70 point range.
Ottawa won this trade simply because we needed a center. Rundblad will be hard pressed to make a team in Phoenix with a glut of defenders entrenched. I see Rundblad as likely being traded again before all is said and done, likely for a forward or forward prospect that can play in Phoenix top 6. We will see what he brings to Phoenix if he's traded again.
We will likely draft another defender soon enough, not to mention there are some viable options in the AHL and SEL and elsewhere, just have to be patient and develop.
Do you really wanna start playing this game with me? I never turned on anybody, and I have a ton of old posts to back me up.
A) I never turned on Rundblad, I was never high on him in the first place, and my opinion hasn't changed since he got traded.
B) I was high on Karlsson even when he was struggling early in his rookie season, because you could tell in his style of play that he was going to be something special. Rundbland hasn't shown any of that.
I'm sure Rundblad will adjust his game and become a servicable defenseman, but he won't be anything special, and he wont reach anywhere near the kind of dominance he experienced in the SEL last year.
I didnt name any names. I just dont like how hyped rundblad was on here (even though he deserved it) and then once he was traded, there was a different tune on how he was talked about by us (sen fans). When I said that, I meant it in a general sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Madison
The way I look at Rundblad vs Karlsson is this...
Karlsson controls the game, he dicates how fast or slow the game will be played and when he had control of the puck he basically does what he wants.
Rundblad's game when he has the puck is high risk and looks for big plays, he doesn't control anything out there, in fact I would say he is out of control. I hate that and IMO those types of players don't last in the NHL.
Defense can be taught but attitudes and a general view on the game are nearly impossible to change. Rundblad is too laid back and he does things that are too high risk along with being soft in a lot of area's. Just don't like him as a player.
Look I'm fine with your opinion on how you think rundblad will develop. But you can't assume a negative take on things such as a player's attitude or perception of the game without having coached, played with or have been involved in the management of said player. No one here knows rundblad or how hard he works.
And attitudes/perceptions of players can change, just look at Jason Spezza.
I didnt name any names. I just dont like how hyped rundblad was on here (even though he deserved it) and then once he was traded, there was a different tune on how he was talked about by us (sen fans). When I said that, I meant it in a general sense.
Look I'm fine with your opinion on how you think rundblad will develop. But you can't assume a negative take on things such as a player's attitude or perception of the game without having coached, played with or have been involved in the management of said player. No one here knows rundblad or how hard he works.
And attitudes/perceptions of players can change, just look at Jason Spezza.
Attitude towards the game, no whether or not he works hard or w/e else. You can tell in his play. The game vs NYR where he made a behind the back pass behind his net... he doesn't play the game with any kind of authority or any kind of urgency. You look at Karlsson and his passes are crisp, they're hard. He does everything at a high speed. Rundblad is missing this in his game and a lot of it can't be coached into it.
It's not a knock on his character, it's a knock on the way he plays the game and again, I can't stand the way he plays it. I don't think he is cut out to carve a long career in the NHL.
Rundblad I think will be like a Sandis Ozolinsch who in his time could easily dominate a game offensively and that was in the dead puck era. Not the best skater, not the best passer, just a great player.
Turris I think will get better every year and he'll fill out but I think he wants to stay slim to retain his speed and agility like a Mike Modano.
I think people here equate Turris to a Brendan Morrison, Turris is going to be an excellent player for us and I think he'll end up being an excellent game to game player, like a poor man's Petr Stasny.
A Stephen Weiss type career is the most I would reasonably expect from Turris. That wouldn't be so bad but I think it's every bit as likely that he falls well short of that. I thought at the time of the trade that the second rounder should have been coming our way instead of going to Phoenix. Nothing I've seen since the trade has changed my mind about that.
We'll find out if ever we have to revisit this period and have to think... "Hey, our #2 & #3 D-men were 37 & 35yo... didn't anybody think that we would need potential top-4 D-men?"
We'll find out if ever we have to revisit this period and have to think... "Hey, our #2 & #3 D-men were 37 & 35yo... didn't anybody think that we would need potential top-4 D-men?"
Attitude towards the game, no whether or not he works hard or w/e else. You can tell in his play. The game vs NYR where he made a behind the back pass behind his net... he doesn't play the game with any kind of authority or any kind of urgency. You look at Karlsson and his passes are crisp, they're hard. He does everything at a high speed. Rundblad is missing this in his game and a lot of it can't be coached into it.
It's not a knock on his character, it's a knock on the way he plays the game and again, I can't stand the way he plays it. I don't think he is cut out to carve a long career in the NHL.
So contrary to all the pundits and scouts and hockey writers who all say he will be great, your sample size of 20ish game has told you the that he is going to be an NHL loser. I didn't know you were a professional!!!! Please, tell me more about these specific examples from rundblads first few games where he made mistakes!!!! Anyone who doesn't play like a star in his first few games must be a loser!!! Maybe you should start your own Eklund style website projecting players after watching them for 20 games from your livingroom!!!!!
So contrary to all the pundits and scouts and hockey writers who all say he will be great, your sample size of 20ish game has told you the that he is going to be an NHL loser. I didn't know you were a professional!!!! Please, tell me more about these specific examples from rundblads first few games where he made mistakes!!!! Anyone who doesn't play like a star in his first few games must be a loser!!!
Pretty sure I gave my opinion on his game based on his WJC and NA play. You can choose to read up if you wish other wise you go back to playing NHL 2012 please.
As for the "professional" comment. Nope, I'm most certainly not, doesn't mean I don't know the game or know exactly what I like in a player either. You're ignorance knows no bounds and it's always so cute to see what you will say next so people can just pick you apart.
Pretty sure I gave my opinion on his game based on his WJC and NA play. You can choose to read up if you wish other wise you go back to playing NHL 2012 please.
As for the "professional" comment. Nope, I'm most certainly not, doesn't mean I don't know the game or know exactly what I like in a player either. You're ignorance knows no bounds and it's always so cute to see what you will say next so people can just pick you apart.
How can you make claims like "He is not going to carve out a good NHL career" based on ~20 games AND contrary to what everyone in the hockey world has said. Its complete lunacy. It's not even about who is better, Turris or Rundblad, its about your sincere thoughts that Rundblad is an NHL bust! Maybe its possible for you because your a psychic scout that can project players better than anyone in the professional hockey world!
Everyone has seen you make the NHL 2012 reference many times before when you don't know what else to say. Its funny because its not even relevant. You must be really wrapped up in this game to talk about it so frequently. I don't even own it, good sir! Why don't YOU go play some NHL 2012! Oh wait you probably are!
How can you make claims like "He is not going to carve out a good NHL career" based on ~20 games AND contrary to what everyone in the hockey world has said. Its complete lunacy. It's not even about who is better, Turris or Rundblad, its about your sincere thoughts that Rundblad is an NHL bust! Maybe its possible for you because your a psychic scout that can project players better than anyone in the professional hockey world!
Everyone has seen you make the NHL 2012 reference many times before when you don't know what else to say. Its funny because its not even relevant. You must be really wrapped up in this game to talk about it so frequently. I don't even own it, good sir! Why don't YOU go play some NHL 2012! Oh wait you probably are!
There are so many assumptions and just false statements here I don't know where to begin.
One, I never stated anything, pretty sure I qualified everything with "IMO" as it is my view on him as a player on how he plays the game.
Two, never said he was or would be a bust. I think he tops out as a 5 or 6 D man that plays sheltered minutes because how his lack of compete level and how poorly he plays on the other side of the puck. A Europen who plays those mins, they tend to go back home after 1/2 a decade... so if you want to say that's me calling him an NHL bust, then sure, you make that leap.
Three, how is someone a fortune teller when they say "I think this or think that"? Interesting because that's basically a scouts job (not that I am a professional scout) and that's what they are paid to do. Some do it better than others but it's educating yourself on a certain player(s) and forming an opinion. You think people get to watch a guy play more than 15-20 games a year before a team drafts him? No chance. One guy watches one player about a dozen times short of top 5-10 picks.
I've formed my opinion on Rundblad based on his WJC's and his play in NA in general. Probably about 25-30 games and I hate the way he plays and I don't see it translating to NHL success on any level other than he will probably be an every day player in the 5, 6 role. Not sure if that would qualify the #17 pick overall being a bust... I don't, it's about par for the course.
Like I said before, why do you need a "crystal ball" to present an opinion? To discuss how you see something playing out based on facts or events that have played a part in forming that opinion?
Saying "Rundblad sucks and won't be ****" or "Turris sucks because he didn't want to play in Phx" are not based on anything. Discussing what you like or dislike about a player and having an opinion on him doesn't involve fortune telling, a crystal ball, or w/e else.
Maybe at the draft instead of having the teams respective logo in the middle of the table they should actually have a crystal ball.
