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Pens vs Maple Leafs (1967) (plus/minus) 3-7-12

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03-08-2012, 09:50 AM
  #101
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I hear what you're saying Jiggy, but isn't it a bit of a contradiction? If Staal has 'his own line', then that means Cooke and Kennedy in a checking role when Crosby comes back. Unless you believe we should put Crosby where Vitale currently is and keep rolling with Kunitz-Malkin-Neal and Sullivan-Staal-Dupuis?

I don't think it's a big deal at this point, but I think even if we go back to the 3C model when Sid returns, the dynamics have changed a bit. I think the Staal line will be less of a true checking line in the traditional sense, and more of a third scoring line (or second, depending on how Sid looks). I suspect Sid will be fine and will look AT LEAST like a 2C, if not regain his 1C position before we break for the summer.

Also, I'm glad Thiessen has looked so good. I never wanted to spend another dime more than we had to on next season's backup, so if Thiessen wants the job he should just re-up for the same price he's getting now. That helps the team, but it also helps his cause to win the backup job.

Also glad to hear Strait is doing the job. We have some solid depth players from the AHL. We need to trust them.
If you want him to keep developing, you can't put Staal with grinders anymore.... a big reason why he has taken so long to develop his offensive game is because he was put into a checking line role with unskilled, straight line players for most of his career.

Staal got locked into a defensive role and his offensive game was never fully developed. Now he is being relied upon to score and his creativity and confidence is growing by leaps and bounds.

Again, his emergence allows Crosby and Malkin to play together. Kunitz is a natural fit with Staal and with all due respect to Dupuis, he is better for that line, despite what we saw last night.

We saw another case last night where Neal and Kunitz simply don't have the ability to play at Geno's level. Only Crosby can see the ice like Malkin and only those two together can have that kind of game breaking chemistry together.

When the checking gets tighter in the playoffs, that first line is going to get bogged down when teams start playing a combo man/zone designed specifically to isolate Geno with two checkers on him at all times in the offensive zone. The Rags and Boston will undoubtedly be able to frustrate that line... I am quite positive of that. When you have two players who can move the puck like Geno and Crosby on the same line, it dramatically alters what you can do agt. them, because one of them will always be without the puck...

Neal Crosby Malkin
Kunitz Staal Sully
Cooke Dupuis/Vitale TK

Dominant first line; very good second line that can add secondary scoring; ideal checking line.

You aren't going to find any better line combos with the way this roster is constructed. Any other combo does not max out both Malkin and Crosby's talents.

When you are lucky enough to have a dominant second pivot like Staal, it boggles my mind that people would actually want to keep the two best players in the world away from each other, because there is this idiotic notion Malkin has to be a center to be effective.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

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03-08-2012, 10:00 AM
  #102
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Correct, 0. IIRC.
I think you're confusing something. We didn't win a game after 60 minutes when down after two periods.

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03-08-2012, 10:04 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
If you want him to keep developing, you can't put Staal with grinders anymore.... a big reason why he has taken so long to develop his offensive game is because he was put into a checking line role with unskilled, straight line players for most of his career.

Staal got locked into a defensive role and his offensive game was never fully developed. Now he is being relied upon to score and his creativity and confidence is growing by leaps and bounds.

Again, his emergence allows Crosby and Malkin to play together. Kunitz is a natural fit with Staal and with all due respect to Dupuis, he is better for that line, despite what we saw last night.

We saw another case last night where Neal and Kunitz simply don't have the ability to play at Geno's level. Only Crosby can see the ice like Malkin and only those two together can have that kind of game breaking chemistry together.

When the checking gets tighter in the playoffs, that first line is going to get bogged down when teams start playing a combo man/zone designed specifically to isolate Geno with two checkers on him at all times in the offensive zone. The Rags and Boston will undoubtedly be able to frustrate that line... I am quite positive of that. When you have two players who can move the puck like Geno and Crosby on the same line, it dramatically alters what you can do agt. them, because one of them will always be without the puck...

Neal Crosby Malkin
Kunitz Staal Sully
Cooke Dupuis/Vitale TK

Dominant first line; very good second line that can add secondary scoring; ideal checking line.

You aren't going to find any better line combos with the way this roster is constructed. Any other combo does not max out both Malkin and Crosby's talents.

When you are lucky enough to have a dominant second pivot like Staal, it boggles my mind that people would actually want to keep the two best players in the world away from each other, because there is this idiotic notion Malkin has to be a center to be effective.

It makes no sense whatsoever.
I agree with this.

Also big ++++ to the Staal line last night.

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03-08-2012, 10:06 AM
  #104
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+Pierre referenced to Penguins as "we"

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03-08-2012, 10:09 AM
  #105
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Na Jiggy, let's put our two best defensive centers together. Or throw TK/Cooke in the top 6 over Staal.

This team is winning games despite our top line being held in check. You want to make the easiest transition for Sid and this team? Replace Kunitz with Sid and and slide Kunitz down to Staal's wing.

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03-08-2012, 10:31 AM
  #106
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I think people are more infatuated with Bortuzzo because of his size and the fact that he fights. I think Strait is a more fluid skater and makes better decisions but Bortuzzo is also a year younger. Bortuzzo is another one that we don't want to lose for nothing.
It would be helpful if Bortuzzo could put on a little more weight, he's tall but seems quite skinny whereas Strait's pretty average height for an NHL defenseman but looks very solidly put together.

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03-08-2012, 10:48 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
- Staal was an absolute animal last night and showed again exactly why he needs to have his own line. If he is put back with TK and Cooke into a checking role it will be a very unwise decision by DB.

My only complaint was on his mini breakaway, when he made a beautiful play to steal the puck, was that if he kept moving his feet he would of been in all alone. Instead he took a low percentage shot. It is all coming for him though.

- I really appreciate Dupuis and I know he had two goals, but he again missed another gimme goal. His tip was beautiful, but the Monster really let in a softie on the winning goal (but that is Gusty's trademark).

I don't think I have ever seen a player blow more golden chances than Dupuis, and I have been watching hockey since I was 7 years old.

Even when he is stickhandling the puck it is always kind of clanging off his blade and you get the sense he will lose it at any moment... I bet he would finish more of those chances if he had a wooden blade perhaps? I just don't understand how he blows so many lay ups... is he not bearing down enough? Does he not have his stick on the ice like most natural goal scorers? Wtf is it?

- Not much mention of Strait, but he played another quietly efficient game. His quick transition pass to his partner on the winning goal was some heads up hockey and caught the Leafs flat footed.

The thing I have always liked about Strait is he makes quick decisions and there is no wasted movement in his skating or his passing. When he wants to move the puck he snaps it off quickly and it seems effortless for him.
I agree with everyone about Staal last night, save for the first period. He was hesistant and it looked like he wanted nothing to do with the puck. Luckily that changed when he got that steal and mini breakaway as you mentioned. Why he didn't walk that in though I'll never know.

If Duper's hands/reflexes/whatever were just a bit better he'd be surefire 30 goal scorer. I'm happy with him as a great 3rd line winger/adequate 2nd line plug though

I like the shoutout to Strait, I thought he's looked he's looked very solid these past two games.

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03-08-2012, 10:53 AM
  #108
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Na Jiggy, let's put our two best defensive centers together. Or throw TK/Cooke in the top 6 over Staal.

This team is winning games despite our top line being held in check. You want to make the easiest transition for Sid and this team? Replace Kunitz with Sid and and slide Kunitz down to Staal's wing.
Like I said yesterday, it is logical.

- You want to squeeze the most out of Crosby and Malkin as you can.

- You want Staal to have his own line and play in the top 6 with more skilled players

- Malkin is not as effective in his own end as Staal and Crosby

- Malkin has done quite well at wing before

- Staal always struggles at wing

Finally and most importantly, you need to protect Crosby from absorbing as many unnecessary hits as possible. Putting him with Malkin and Neal gives him the best possible chance to move the puck quickly and avoid having to hold the puck too long. This alone is more than enough of a reason to put them together.

With Staal's emergence, the only argument agt. them together is that Geno needs to play center because he can get his "gallup" going... right... uh... ok. Someone is going to have to play wing out of the big 3 if Staal is going to continue to develop the offensive side of his game... Geno is the most qualified and his avg. def. zone work makes it even more logical.

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03-08-2012, 11:10 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Here's a nice little stat for everybody...

NHL ‏ @NHL
Did You Know? Last night was 9th time this season the @pghpenguins won a game they were trailing by 2 goals in. #Pens #comebackkids

Do you remember when we could never come back last season?
I don't think it's a good thing to go down by 2 that often by not showing up until they are down.

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03-08-2012, 11:15 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Saku11 View Post
+Pierre referenced to Penguins as "we"
Pierre's a huge Penguin homer.

He's on Montreal radio for a daily segment, and always talks about his time with the Penguins and how close he is with Shero (best man at each other's weddings, etc.) and a couple of years ago, ended the segment with "In the end, I am a Penguin".

Every week or so, just to bust his balls, the host plays that clip.

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03-08-2012, 11:15 AM
  #111
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I just do not understand the thought process of Geno playing on Crosby's wing would be awesome, but Geno playing on Staal's wing would render him useless.

Brian Strait is an NHL defenseman, me thinks. Real efficient player.

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03-08-2012, 11:18 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by MtlPenFan View Post
Pierre's a huge Penguin homer.

He's on Montreal radio for a daily segment, and always talks about his time with the Penguins and how close he is with Shero (best man at each other's weddings, etc.) and a couple of years ago, ended the segment with "In the end, I am a Penguin".

Every week or so, just to bust his balls, the host plays that clip.
Yeah i know. Its just weird that he doesent even try to hide his bias like most announcers

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03-08-2012, 11:37 AM
  #113
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Even though he has his creepy as **** moments, I am a big fan of Pierre.

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03-08-2012, 11:40 AM
  #114
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Even though he has his creepy as **** moments, I am a big fan of Pierre.
Say what you want about him, the ****er is usually spot on about talent and a player's upside. He's messed up a time or two (nobody is perfect and player evaluation isn't an exact science) but he's right way more often than he's not.

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03-08-2012, 11:40 AM
  #115
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Even though he has his creepy as **** moments, I am a big fan of Pierre.
same here, he was absolutely gushing over Staal last night while Staal was sat right next to him must have been a bit creepy for him.

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03-08-2012, 11:44 AM
  #116
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Old
03-08-2012, 12:17 PM
  #117
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The whining about Geno's line needs to stop. It's getting pretty sad when a line plays so amazingly well over the course of a year that when they go a couple of games without looking like world beaters, their fan base jumps all over them.

This kind of thing happens to every line and every player in the league at some point during the year. Even when Mario scored 199 points in '88-'89, he had games when he barely looked like he was out there. And Neal is a pure goal scorer ... hot and cold streaks are pretty common for such players.

None of these guys are going out and dogging it. Things just aren't going as well for them right now as a unit. It happens.
Totally. Why should we hold the best line in the NHL a few weeks ago to a higher standard than other lines???

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03-08-2012, 12:20 PM
  #118
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He was more worried about Dupuis getting the hat trick than padding his own stats. That's how he was putting the team first in this case.
That's fine in when they're leading by 2. When you're only leading by one you have to score regardless of HTs or anything else.

It didn't cost them, but I've pointed out a few games lately where a team tied up a game after the other team missed an EN.

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03-08-2012, 12:22 PM
  #119
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I just do not understand the thought process of Geno playing on Crosby's wing would be awesome, but Geno playing on Staal's wing would render him useless.

Brian Strait is an NHL defenseman, me thinks. Real efficient player.
I'd like to see Geno rotated on Sid and Staal's wings and have him center the third and 4th lines randomly. He will always be our X factor in a playoff series.

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03-08-2012, 12:24 PM
  #120
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One game doesn't make a difference. I've seen games where Stamkos looked zoned out.
I guess you missed where I wrote, "5 games..."?

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03-08-2012, 12:34 PM
  #121
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So him having a 8 game point streak with 6 G's and 6 A was him playing a bit different.

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03-08-2012, 12:37 PM
  #122
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This Geno to wing stuff is garbage...just complete and utter garbage. You people pushing for that literally make me sick. Geno is dominating the league at center with his line. Why people want to mess that up is completely beyond me. I don't care if you think he works better here or there...its insanity to want to move him out of the position he's in. It works...and its proven. Its been the only thing certain this year...and last year...and even the year before that!


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03-08-2012, 12:45 PM
  #123
Mr Jiggyfly
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This Geno to wing stuff is garbage...just complete and utter garbage. You people pushing for that literally make me sick. Geno is dominating the league at center with his line. Why people want to mess that up is completely beyond me. I don't care if you think he works better here or there...its insanity to want to move him out of the position he's in. It works...and its proven. Its been the only thing certain this year...and last year...and even the year before that!


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03-08-2012, 12:47 PM
  #124
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So him having a 8 game point streak with 6 G's and 6 A was him playing a bit different.
I've said "5 games" a few times now and you come back with "1 game' then '8 games'??

He has 4 points in he last 5. That TB game is pretty much the only reason he's still tied with Stammer right now

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03-08-2012, 12:48 PM
  #125
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It would be helpful if Bortuzzo could put on a little more weight, he's tall but seems quite skinny whereas Strait's pretty average height for an NHL defenseman but looks very solidly put together.
Plus, his beard is good.

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