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Cory Schneider / Roberto Luongo to Tampa Bay

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Old
04-22-2012, 11:30 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by EvanOberg View Post
Hopefully it means they no longer want Schneider and are willing to trade him for MAB and part of Vinnys cap hit for the remainder of his career.
Hopefully.

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04-22-2012, 11:59 PM
  #252
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Right now, I really don't see them dealing Schneider, but they'll have a hell of a time trying to unload Luongo and that contract. If someone does make an offer, they won't get anything for him.

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04-23-2012, 12:20 AM
  #253
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Vancouver will keep Schneider- no question- they aren't going to give him up and face the fans. Luongo will be a backup at best which he will not want to do therefore he will be moved and he will want to be moved in order to get a fresh start.

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04-23-2012, 12:35 AM
  #254
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Vancouver will keep Schneider- no question- they aren't going to give him up and face the fans. Luongo will be a backup at best which he will not want to do therefore he will be moved and he will want to be moved in order to get a fresh start.
Great story. Except you forgot one thing. You have to find someone who actually wants to take Luongo. Even if thats for free, let alone for assets in return.

I still believe Schneider wont sign long term until Luongo is gone. And the Canucks will have a very hard time moving Luongo. Maybe they could put him on waivers, and then re-entry waivers and someone might claim him. But the length is the killer.

My bet? Schneider still gets traded.

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04-23-2012, 12:53 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
Great story. Except you forgot one thing. You have to find someone who actually wants to take Luongo. Even if thats for free, let alone for assets in return.

I still believe Schneider wont sign long term until Luongo is gone. And the Canucks will have a very hard time moving Luongo. Maybe they could put him on waivers, and then re-entry waivers and someone might claim him. But the length is the killer.

My bet? Schneider still gets traded.
Don't lose your money. One thing you need to understand is the fan base of Vancouver. If they were to trade Schneider management and Luongo would feel the wrath of the fans. It is obvious Schneider is better positionally than Luongo as well as younger etc. The contract of Luongo is a problem length wise- so Vancouver would be looking at more of a salary dump although there are enough teams out there that need a decent goalie that would trade for him. There are also teams that Luongo would not mind going to- maybe several. Florida teams would be on that list. He has the right to say no- but he can be buried in the minors- not likely but possible. He certainly will not be happy as a backup. Vancouver's continued failure (laugh here ) demands change- that will certainly mean Luongo is gone. Teams needing goaltending mean teams will trade for him at the right price. I'd take your bet on Schneider- easy money.
By the way- I picked LA to win. Great team. TB also has a very good team- like them a lot. Need a goalie- I'm sure SY will do a good job and get you one- but it will probably cost as not a lot of good ones out there.
I'm also envious. You guys have a Stanley Cup under your belt which is more than we have. But your still not getting Schneider.


Last edited by Rocky-: 04-23-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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04-23-2012, 08:15 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by nhljohnson View Post
If you want to move up 3 spots, just offer MIN their 2nd back in addition to the 10th and see if they bite.

No need to throw in an extra pick for Harding's UFA rights. If Yzerman trades for a goalie at the draft, it won't be a pending UFA.
Teams trade for UFA rights all the time, it gives us a better chance to sign Harding before anyone can talk to him. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to get Schneider or Bernier just the cost of those two is going to be too high. If we improved our D and had a solid platoon of Garon/Harding/any UFA we will be set up good and wouldn't have to give up any assets.


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04-23-2012, 09:30 AM
  #257
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The Lightning already have Garon under contract for next season. No need to overpay and overcommit (with 3 or 4 year deals) to Vokoun or Harding. The Lightning can offer something very few other teams can: the opportunity to start regularly as a #1.



As I recall, the controversy over the trade was centered on the perception that Toronto had essentially 'bought' the Lightning's 4th-round draft pick by absorbing Kolzig's remaining salary and Kolzig's injured status really wasn't a point of contention in and of itself.

By 'the league', do you mean other GMs or the commissioner and central offices?

'Functionally retired' isn't retired. The CBA may have provisions that prohibit the Lightning from moving Ohlund due to his particular status but I doubt it. And, if not, I doubt the powers that be will meddle.

Off the top of my head I'd venture that, if a player on IR cannot be traded then perhaps he can be activated without any intent of playing him and instead to complete a trade and so long as the team receiving him waives (assuming they can do so) or rubber stamps a physical, the deal is kosher.
Mea culpa on the comparison. I was trying to compare the notion that the league office didn't like that Burke traded for an injured player, with basically no chance of playing.

If people hadn't perceived that Burke had bought a 4th round pick, there wouldn't have been an issue, and dealing with the Vancouver Canucks, especially in a deal involving a broken Ohlund, to bring back one of their goalies, people are liable to think along similar lines as well.

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04-23-2012, 12:39 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Rocky- View Post
Don't lose your money. One thing you need to understand is the fan base of Vancouver. If they were to trade Schneider management and Luongo would feel the wrath of the fans. It is obvious Schneider is better positionally than Luongo as well as younger etc. The contract of Luongo is a problem length wise- so Vancouver would be looking at more of a salary dump although there are enough teams out there that need a decent goalie that would trade for him. There are also teams that Luongo would not mind going to- maybe several. Florida teams would be on that list. He has the right to say no- but he can be buried in the minors- not likely but possible. He certainly will not be happy as a backup. Vancouver's continued failure (laugh here ) demands change- that will certainly mean Luongo is gone. Teams needing goaltending mean teams will trade for him at the right price. I'd take your bet on Schneider- easy money.
By the way- I picked LA to win. Great team. TB also has a very good team- like them a lot. Need a goalie- I'm sure SY will do a good job and get you one- but it will probably cost as not a lot of good ones out there.
I'm also envious. You guys have a Stanley Cup under your belt which is more than we have. But your still not getting Schneider.

It's all speculation at this point. From both of us. And course I'm leaning the way id like and you the other haha.

We shall see.

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04-23-2012, 01:09 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by IdealisticSniper View Post
It's all speculation at this point. From both of us. And course I'm leaning the way id like and you the other haha.

We shall see.
Agreed.
I do think TB is a goalie and a couple improvements on d away from being a serious Stanley Cup contender. I have utmost admiration for SY. Championships are built from management. TB is in great hands.
From Canucks perspective- I'm disappointed and confused on management. 1rst- Luongo's contract is ridiculous. Cap wise ok- term poor. Trading Hodgson- reserve final judgement but initial reaction- not fond of it. History- I follow the WHL close and saw Neely, Sakic, etc. I was thrilled Canucks drafted Neely. Devastated when they traded him. Sakic I said draft him. They passed. Schneider in any trade will be the best player in my opinion- trading team that gets him wins like Boston did with Neely. Can Gillis trade him- absolutely. Would he be wise to do so- not by most Canuck fans. Will Luongo waive- more likely as he would want a fresh start. Is life fair- no but when you make millions on millions- the unfairness isn't really that bad. Trade me to TB for 1/2 that I'll go.
Right now I like TB and the direction they are going. I'm not sure about Vancouver. The one thing I believe Vancouver has going for it besides the Sedins- is Schneider. I can honestly picture Schneider holding the Stanley Cup over his head if he was TB's goalie. As much as I have no problem with TB- great city, etc. I don't want to see that at the expense of the Canucks.


Last edited by Rocky-: 04-23-2012 at 01:16 PM.
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04-23-2012, 01:59 PM
  #260
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Agreed.
I do think TB is a goalie and a couple improvements on d away from being a serious Stanley Cup contender. I have utmost admiration for SY. Championships are built from management. TB is in great hands.
From Canucks perspective- I'm disappointed and confused on management. 1rst- Luongo's contract is ridiculous. Cap wise ok- term poor. Trading Hodgson- reserve final judgement but initial reaction- not fond of it. History- I follow the WHL close and saw Neely, Sakic, etc. I was thrilled Canucks drafted Neely. Devastated when they traded him. Sakic I said draft him. They passed. Schneider in any trade will be the best player in my opinion- trading team that gets him wins like Boston did with Neely. Can Gillis trade him- absolutely. Would he be wise to do so- not by most Canuck fans. Will Luongo waive- more likely as he would want a fresh start. Is life fair- no but when you make millions on millions- the unfairness isn't really that bad. Trade me to TB for 1/2 that I'll go.
Right now I like TB and the direction they are going. I'm not sure about Vancouver. The one thing I believe Vancouver has going for it besides the Sedins- is Schneider. I can honestly picture Schneider holding the Stanley Cup over his head if he was TB's goalie. As much as I have no problem with TB- great city, etc. I don't want to see that at the expense of the Canucks.
It would be ideal to for Vancouver to keep Schneider but the problem with trading Lou is you get little in return for him. At this point it has been acknowledged that he will be considered a cap dump and because of this what would be the return? A mid level prospect, low to high first, and some cap going to the other way to off set? Moving Schneider will still leave Vancouver with a good goalie, it will also address and possibly improve the weak D that Vancouver has had for years. I live in Vancouver and am a die hard Bolts fan. I have said for years that the Canucks could never win a Stanley Cup with its D. Goaltending was above the rest since Lou came in, but D has been sub par at best for a long time. Schneider could bring you that top 4 D, Lou will bring you pieces for the future. Vancouver wants to win now not later.

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04-23-2012, 02:33 PM
  #261
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It would be ideal to for Vancouver to keep Schneider but the problem with trading Lou is you get little in return for him. At this point it has been acknowledged that he will be considered a cap dump and because of this what would be the return? A mid level prospect, low to high first, and some cap going to the other way to off set? Moving Schneider will still leave Vancouver with a good goalie, it will also address and possibly improve the weak D that Vancouver has had for years. I live in Vancouver and am a die hard Bolts fan. I have said for years that the Canucks could never win a Stanley Cup with its D. Goaltending was above the rest since Lou came in, but D has been sub par at best for a long time. Schneider could bring you that top 4 D, Lou will bring you pieces for the future. Vancouver wants to win now not later.
This is a pretty logical argument, but how do we make it work in practice? Unless Hedman moves (which he won't), TB doesn't have defense to offer. Is a 3-team deal on the table?

Is there a team with a top D-man they'd part with for some reasonable combo of TB picks, prospects or players?

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04-23-2012, 03:39 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by 2 Weekes Notice View Post
This is a pretty logical argument, but how do we make it work in practice? Unless Hedman moves (which he won't), TB doesn't have defense to offer. Is a 3-team deal on the table?

Is there a team with a top D-man they'd part with for some reasonable combo of TB picks, prospects or players?
What do you mean we don't have D, ever hear over Eric Brewer. Straight swap Schneider for Brewer?

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04-23-2012, 05:03 PM
  #263
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What do you mean we don't have D, ever hear over Eric Brewer. Straight swap Schneider for Brewer?
That would be a pretty big mistake for Tampa. Brewer has been the best defenseman since he got here. Trading him would leave 3 holes in our top 4

What looks "better"?

Hedman - Aulie
Lee - Mikkelson
Schneider

or

Hedman - Brewer
Lee - Aulie
Bernier


It is gonna be hard enough to go out and find a top 4 dman for the right price who fits into Boucher's system. It might be damn near impossible to do that twice.

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04-23-2012, 05:07 PM
  #264
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What are you guys smoking down there in T.B.?

Schneider isn't going anywhere,but we'll trade you Luongo for anybody. lol

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04-23-2012, 05:16 PM
  #265
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Hey guys, Pens fan here. Just wondering what you guys would want for Purcell? I'm not really sure of his value to you guys but I assume it would be pretty high.

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It is gonna be hard enough to go out and find a top 4 dman for the right price who fits into Boucher's system. It might be damn near impossible to do that twice.
There's been a lot of talk on our board that Paul Martin would be perfect for you guys. While he hasn't been good here, it's more due to not fitting in than being bad. I don't know what you think about that but I'm just throwing it out there.

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04-23-2012, 05:30 PM
  #266
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I assumed the Brewer-Schneider proposal was a joke, but I guess my sarcas-o-meter is broken. No way Vancouver agrees to that.

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Hey guys, Pens fan here. Just wondering what you guys would want for Purcell? I'm not really sure of his value to you guys but I assume it would be pretty high.

There's been a lot of talk on our board that Paul Martin would be perfect for you guys. While he hasn't been good here, it's more due to not fitting in than being bad. I don't know what you think about that but I'm just throwing it out there.
I think Purcell would require an overpayment at this point. He and Stamkos make each other better (their stats during Stamkos' drive for 60 were incredible), and I'd imagine Yzerman means to keep them tied together going forward. Probably worth more to Tampa than to most other teams.

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04-23-2012, 05:31 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Hedberg1 View Post
Hey guys, Pens fan here. Just wondering what you guys would want for Purcell? I'm not really sure of his value to you guys but I assume it would be pretty high.



There's been a lot of talk on our board that Paul Martin would be perfect for you guys. While he hasn't been good here, it's more due to not fitting in than being bad. I don't know what you think about that but I'm just throwing it out there.
Michalek/Orpik/Martin wouldn't be enough for Purcell for me, but Letang would be too much so...

I would want to keep him here

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04-23-2012, 05:31 PM
  #268
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What do you mean we don't have D, ever hear over Eric Brewer. Straight swap Schneider for Brewer?
Done.

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04-23-2012, 05:37 PM
  #269
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That would be a pretty big mistake for Tampa. Brewer has been the best defenseman since he got here. Trading him would leave 3 holes in our top 4

What looks "better"?

Hedman - Aulie
Lee - Mikkelson
Schneider

or

Hedman - Brewer
Lee - Aulie
Bernier


It is gonna be hard enough to go out and find a top 4 dman for the right price who fits into Boucher's system. It might be damn near impossible to do that twice.
I don't think it's a big mistake if your looking at it for our future, it'll hurt next year but it would set us up nicely. Brewer is 33 and he didn't look his best last season, I don't consider him a top pair D anymore but a very good 2nd pair. It's easier to get a 2nd pair D than a young elite goaltender. We also wouldn't give up any picks so can draft a future Brewer or trade one for a top 4 D. We can sign a couple of UFA's with Brewers cap hit gone.

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04-23-2012, 05:41 PM
  #270
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I assumed the Brewer-Schneider proposal was a joke, but I guess my sarcas-o-meter is broken. No way Vancouver agrees to that.



I think Purcell would require an overpayment at this point. He and Stamkos make each other better (their stats during Stamkos' drive for 60 were incredible), and I'd imagine Yzerman means to keep them tied together going forward. Probably worth more to Tampa than to most other teams.
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Originally Posted by viktors89 View Post
Michalek/Orpik/Martin wouldn't be enough for Purcell for me, but Letang would be too much so...

I would want to keep him here
Yeah that's pretty much what I figured, he's blossomed into a hell of a player.

Just one of those guys would definitely be too little though. I was thinking Martin+. Maybe Niskanen's rights and Kennedy but that still probably isn't worth it for you guys. More quantity than quality. Thanks though and good luck getting a goalie

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04-23-2012, 05:44 PM
  #271
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Brewer for Schneider? Come on, guys.

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Hey guys, Pens fan here. Just wondering what you guys would want for Purcell? I'm not really sure of his value to you guys but I assume it would be pretty high.
Your guess is right. After a tremendous playoff performance he had yet another tough start and I thought he'd be gone by the trade deadline. But over the last couple months of the regular season he became our second best player behind only Stamkos. His chemistry with Stamkos is probably the reason why Downie suddenly was expendable, too.

Mid- to longterm he could be St. Louis' replacement. He has great vision and playmaking abilities and his shot isn't bad either. So yeah, he could be worth more to us than another team is willing to give up for him.

On the other hand goal scoring hasn't really been our problem despite all our injuries (we're one of only three teams with five players scoring at least 20 goals; ranking 9th in the league in goals for) and we have a lot of young guys pushing for a top-6 role next season and the year(s) after in Connolly, Brown, Conacher, Namestnikov, Killorn, T.Johnson, etc. And in case Purcell can't keep up his terrific play and starts to slump again Yzerman looks bad not using him as bait to acquire a #1 goalie or a top-2 defenseman so I wouldn't say he's untouchable.

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04-23-2012, 05:48 PM
  #272
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Yeah that's pretty much what I figured, he's blossomed into a hell of a player.

Just one of those guys would definitely be too little though. I was thinking Martin+. Maybe Niskanen's rights and Kennedy but that still probably isn't worth it for you guys. More quantity than quality. Thanks though and good luck getting a goalie
Despres? Wouldn't want to trade Teddy just yet but for a young stud PMD I would. What would it take to get Niskannen's rights he looked good compared to some of you D?

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04-23-2012, 05:52 PM
  #273
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On the other hand we have a lot of young guys pushing for a top-6 role next season and the year(s) after in Connolly, Brown, Conacher, Namestnikov, Killorn, T.Johnson, etc. And in case Purcell can't keep up his terrific play and starts to slump again Yzerman looks bad not using him as bait to acquire a #1 goalie or a top-2 defenseman so I wouldn't say he's untouchable.
Yeah exactly, I wouldn't be surprised to see any of our forwards (outside of the big 3) part of a trade for a top4 Dman or a #1 goalie.

I would really hate to see Purcell go though. He's become one of my favorite players

As far as Martin goes, I think he is a better Dman than he has looked on the Penguins and that he would fit into Boucher's system very well. In fact, I think he is probably worth his 5mil a yr contract on the right team. Unfortunately, because of some other contracts the Lightning are burdened by right now, as well as the need for a #1 goalie, it's probably not realistic that Yzerman trades for him.

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04-23-2012, 06:02 PM
  #274
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Brewer for Schneider? Come on, guys.


Your guess is right. After a tremendous playoff performance he had yet another tough start and I thought he'd be gone by the trade deadline. But over the last couple months of the regular season he became our second best player behind only Stamkos. His chemistry with Stamkos is probably the reason why Downie suddenly was expendable, too.

Mid- to longterm he could be St. Louis' replacement. He has great vision and playmaking abilities and his shot isn't bad either. So yeah, he could be worth more to us than another team is willing to give up for him.

On the other hand goal scoring hasn't really been our problem despite all our injuries (we're one of only three teams with five players scoring at least 20 goals; ranking 9th in the league in goals for) and we have a lot of young guys pushing for a top-6 role next season and the year(s) after in Connolly, Brown, Conacher, Namestnikov, Killorn, T.Johnson, etc. And in case Purcell can't keep up his terrific play and starts to slump again Yzerman looks bad not using him as bait to acquire a #1 goalie or a top-2 defenseman so I wouldn't say he's untouchable.
This statement got me thinking if Purcell is a half-season player.

Going solely on goals:
09-10
Oct-Dec: 6 goals
Jan-Apr: 11 goals
playoffs: 6 goals/18 games

10-11
Oct-Dec: 7 goals
Jan-Apr: 17 goals

I could cherry pick the numbers and say that he is, but the case seems to be more that he goes on long stretches without scoring, like in 09-10 where he didn't score during the final 11 regular season games.

Or, he's in the dog house as the season begins, but works his way out by the end. It doesn't change that he's been in the dog house at the beginning of two consecutive seasons, either.

I've been on 'Team Trade Purcell' because I think he's lazy a lot of the time, and I want guys who play each game with desperation.

Downie was expendable because Downie's points were being inflated by playing with Stammer, and not a whole lot more.

Four of Downie's 12 goals (with the Lightning) this season came with an assist from Stammer, and only 7 of Stammer's 60 goals came with an assist for Downie. (which tended to be clustered around Dec/Jan)


Last edited by Felonious Python: 04-23-2012 at 06:21 PM.
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04-23-2012, 06:13 PM
  #275
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It may be just me but I don't think Teddy has much of a ceiling left. I think he's pretty close to being at full potential, which isn't bad cause he's played great with Stamkos. I just don't see him as a 30+ scorer, he may be a solid 25 guy for several years and can get a ton of assists with Stamkos but that's what MSL is for now setting up rather than scoring himself. Connolly didn't have the greatest season but I can see him doing what Teddy's doing now plus in a few seasons. With that say shouldn't we try to sell him while his value is at its highest and try to get an elite goalie or top 4 D?

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