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Cory Schneider / Roberto Luongo to Tampa Bay

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Old
04-26-2012, 04:41 PM
  #351
Vasilevskiy
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Luongo is not a locker room cancer, not even close

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04-26-2012, 05:10 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by viktors89 View Post
Luongo is not a locker room cancer, not even close
I agree. He wasn't suited to be captain, but once that was taken away, there weren't any issues that you could label him as one.

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04-26-2012, 05:11 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by PoundCake View Post
Realistically no, I don't see Yzerman trading Malone for Luongo. I think Lou winds up somewhere else and we keep Malone.

What I am saying is if Luongo winds up in Tampa we will have a lot of money tied up in very few players. I do think if that's the case Malone could return Luongo+ and still keep us relatively cap flexable.

Trading Ohlund honestly doesn't save us any cap space. He'll either retire or be put on LTIR. Keep in mind we'll need to pick up at least one more top 4 Dman, which is likely to cost about as much as Ohlund, if not more.
Not entirely true about Ohlund and cap space. LTIR only kicks in when the cap max is reached and them you can spend over the cap max the amount of the injured players cap hit. If we aren't spending to the cap but consider Ohlunds cap hit as part of the budget they might be trying to stick to, it definitely helps to move it.

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04-26-2012, 05:17 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
I agree. He wasn't suited to be captain, but once that was taken away, there weren't any issues that you could label him as one.
Yeah, the suggestion that he is is so incredibly out of bounds it isn't even funny. Luongo is loved by his teammates. Luongo has incredible work ethic (it took years of work before the team could get him to realize it was in his and the team's best interest that he didn't play every game and didn't take every optional skate, etc.).

The problems stem from the fact that he's never been all that great with the media. His "pumping tires" comment in the finals was ill timed. Taken way out of context, but ill timed regardless.

If you trade for Luongo here's what you're getting:

A top 10 NHL goaltender starting to enter the back nine of his career. He could have 7 or 8 fantastic years left, and it could be more like 3 or 4. He's still one of the better goaltenders in the league, and will, on most nights give your team a chance to win. He has terrible October's (and always has) but ALWAYS seems to get going sometime in November where he'll put up a ridiculous stretch of games. He's pretty awful in the shootout and has a tendency to flop on his stomach a little too much for a lot of people's liking. The criticisims of his game, though, are very nit-picky in my eyes. There are no goaltenders in the league that are without flaw. Luongo also sometimes seems to be even better when his team gives up a lot of shots.

If you trade for him you'll instantly become a top 5 seed in the East again with NYR, Pittsburgh, Philly, and Boston.

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04-26-2012, 05:19 PM
  #355
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If there's anything we've learned over the past two years with SFY at the helm is that none of these rumors are generated by us. It's all other people trying to drum interest up for us so they can attempt to pawn their crap off on us or drum interest up for our players who we have no intention of moving (Marty, Stamkos, Malone).

It's quite funny. When was the last time one of our media people created a rumor? lol

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04-26-2012, 05:19 PM
  #356
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Oh boy, gotta love the main board: "conversation starts with Hedman + a 1st rounder".

DC on acquiring Luongo:
Quote:
Steven Stamkos, one of the league’s brightest stars, is not going anywhere, nor is wing Marty St. Louis. Many believe left wing Ryan Malone and his $4.5 million cap hit is the key, but Yzerman and coach Guy Boucher like Malone a lot. He provides a physical element the Lightning desperately needs and his actual cash salary next season is just $3 million. Like Lecavalier, he also has a no-move clause.
Quote:
Really, though, the main stumbling block to Luongo coming to the Lightning is that contract. Like we said, never say never. Perhaps Yzerman and Gillis could work some creative magic. But Yzerman’s ideal is a young goalie who can grow with Tampa Bay’s young stars, not one who will drain the team’s budget down the road.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/lightn...-bay-lightning

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04-26-2012, 05:24 PM
  #357
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lol gotta love it.

The common theme on there is that we're an elite goalie away from being serious contenders yet we're giving up our best defenseman in the process.

Sounds like a plan, Stan! Where do we sign?!

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04-26-2012, 05:26 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Pyatt View Post
Any Vancouver fan asking for Hedman, Connolly, the 10th overall..etc. are just ****ing high. They're going to be in for some RUDE disappointment in the coming weeks. You can't value Luongo as a top 10 goalie if you don't value him that way yourselves. Dig your own grave and now you live in it, the way things work in a salary cap world.
Luongo is a top 10 goalie though, and the contract, although long, is reasonable in terms of cap hit (he's the 7th highest paid goalie by cap hit and will be 8th after Price signs in Montreal).

I legitimately don't get where the consensus that Luongo is an unmovable or flawed asset comes from. The guy has done nothing but win games and put up fantastic numbers in his tenure with Vancouver. There are a NUMBER of teams that will be lining up to try and trade for him. Off the top of my head Tampa, Florida, Toronto, Columbus, New Jersey, and Chicago would have major interest and Luongo would single handedly make all of those teams better, and in the cases of Tampa, New Jersey, and Chicago could instantly turn them into contenders in their respective conferences.

I think basing his trade value on the reactions the vocal minority of Canuck fans who dislike Luongo is foolish. The only off putting thing about trading for Luongo is the length of his contract which is a complete non issue when he retires anyway. The "big money" years have already been paid, the cap hit is very reasonable for what you'd be getting, and he's still one of the better goaltenders in the NHL. He will not just be a salary dump. The Canucks will get a nice piece (not someone like Hedman, but a good asset and not "spare parts to balance salary") in return for him.

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04-26-2012, 05:48 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCF23 View Post
Luongo is a top 10 goalie though, and the contract, although long, is reasonable in terms of cap hit (he's the 7th highest paid goalie by cap hit and will be 8th after Price signs in Montreal).

I legitimately don't get where the consensus that Luongo is an unmovable or flawed asset comes from. The guy has done nothing but win games and put up fantastic numbers in his tenure with Vancouver. There are a NUMBER of teams that will be lining up to try and trade for him. Off the top of my head Tampa, Florida, Toronto, Columbus, New Jersey, and Chicago would have major interest and Luongo would single handedly make all of those teams better, and in the cases of Tampa, New Jersey, and Chicago could instantly turn them into contenders in their respective conferences.

I think basing his trade value on the reactions the vocal minority of Canuck fans who dislike Luongo is foolish. The only off putting thing about trading for Luongo is the length of his contract which is a complete non issue when he retires anyway. The "big money" years have already been paid, the cap hit is very reasonable for what you'd be getting, and he's still one of the better goaltenders in the NHL. He will not just be a salary dump. The Canucks will get a nice piece (not someone like Hedman, but a good asset and not "spare parts to balance salary") in return for him.
If he IS a top 10 goalie then what does that make Schneider? Top 5. Get real. If he is top 10, keep him and aim to stop the 41 years of rebuild the canucks have gone through.

EDIT: Him not being a salary dump is false. You need salary to sign Schneider and defensive help. He wouldn't be moved other wise. Definition of salary dump is moving a high priced player, to trade for or sign someone for money which you don't have at the moment. So yes he is a salary dump.

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04-26-2012, 05:56 PM
  #360
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Before I read all of the comments arguing what I said..... I thought in interviews he always played the blame game, and was cocky/arrogant. I don't think that those are good locker room attributes. I didn't mean to say Luongo is like Owens, just compare him as a talented player who may not be great to have around. Sorry to those of you I seem to have upset. I seem to stir up a lot of **** on here, but that's not ever my intention

Edit: let me add, if you all think he is not bad for the room, and is talented, then I don't understand all of the downplaying of his value trade wise.


Last edited by LoSTRaMaiR: 04-26-2012 at 06:01 PM.
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Old
04-26-2012, 06:01 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
If he IS a top 10 goalie then what does that make Schneider? Top 5. Get real. If he is top 10, keep him and aim to stop the 41 years of rebuild the canucks have gone through.

EDIT: Him not being a salary dump is false. You need salary to sign Schneider and defensive help. He wouldn't be moved other wise. Definition of salary dump is moving a high priced player, to trade for or sign someone for money which you don't have at the moment. So yes he is a salary dump.
Your logic is flawed here. I don't think the Canucks are going the route of trading Luongo because they think Schneider is a better goalie now (you have to ignore what the stats say because Schneider hasn't proven he can do that over a 60+ start season where Luongo does it every year going 60+). They're going the route of trading Luongo because Schneider has given them enough confidence to think that if they do trade Luongo Schneider can handle the full time load. These are not equal assets being measured against each other (Luongo and Schneider). There's a lot that goes into the decision. Schneider is younger, cheaper, and has the potential to be as good as or better than Luongo, however it's still a gamble on the Canucks part. You have no clue how Schneider handles being "the guy" on a team until he is one. They look ready to make that leap of faith (and Schneider has given every indication he can and will be able to handle it), but the decision is more based upon how good they think Schneider can or will be than how good he or Luongo is right now, if that makes any sense.

Luongo has been the most consistent goalie in the NHL in terms of regular season numbers since the lockout. All he does is win games. Personally, I don't feel like there's a wrong choice for the Canucks in terms of the decision of which goalie to trade. I have supreme confidence in both guys.

As for the salary dump comment, I see a salary dump as a player you're getting rid of for the sole purpose of unloading his contract, which is not the case with Luongo in my eyes. Luongo's talent I feel is extremely fair for his cap hit. I feel like it's more the Canucks dealing from a position of strength so they can shore up a few positions of weakness. Teams don't usually run with the "1a and 1b" goalie system longer than a year or two. Someone has to be "the guy" and just because it looks like Schneider is the one being chosen for that doesn't mean Luongo still ins't a great goalie worthy of his cap hit, it just means that of the two great goalies the organization has management feels Schneider is the better fit moving forward.

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04-26-2012, 06:42 PM
  #362
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Lu asked for a trade, he was benched when he was playing well which is not good for Van, and he has a bad contract. Why would Vancouver have any leverage again?

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04-26-2012, 06:52 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarberioTheBarbarian View Post
Lu asked for a trade, he was benched when he was playing well which is not good for Van, and he has a bad contract. Why would Vancouver have any leverage again?
How is his contract bad for teams that have owners willing to pay the salary? The only way it's bad is if he goes to a team where the owners don't have deep enough pockets to want to actually pay that salary.

In terms of cap hit (which is all the fans should really care about) the contract is fine. There are also "out" clauses later on in the contract, and if he retires at any point, the contract is gone.

It's not a Brian Campbell type deal where the cap hit doesn't justify the player you're getting (even though Campbell had a great year).

Also, Luongo wasn't benched for his play. He was benched to try and shake the team up. Luongo was about the only guy to show up for games 1 and 2.

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04-26-2012, 07:04 PM
  #364
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I'd be ok with Luongo, not sure Yzerman wants to acquire a goalie that's not young like Bernier...

If I had to trade Malone and a 2nd or 3rd for Luongo... I'd do it, we need Luongo more than Malone

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04-26-2012, 08:34 PM
  #365
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The only thing I know about luongo is that he destroyed us consistently with 40+ save efforts on the Panthers. I think we can get a younger and more cap appropriate goalie ( Bernier, Helenius, etc) relatively cheap.

Detroit model does not include $5.33Mil cap hit goalies... Can we sign Suter yet? Lol.

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04-26-2012, 08:38 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcGz View Post
The only thing I know about luongo is that he destroyed us consistently with 40+ save efforts on the Panthers. I think we can get a younger and more cap appropriate goalie ( Bernier, Helenius, etc) relatively cheap.

Detroit model does not include $5.33Mil cap hit goalies... Can we sign Suter yet? Lol.
That's the thing...The choice Yzerman will have to make. Luongo, I think, turns you back into a contender in the East right now where as Bernier or someone else first of all isn't a sure thing and second might need to grow with the team.

It's hard because your team is a mix of old and young players.

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04-26-2012, 08:43 PM
  #367
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The Jay Feastor drafting era decimated this team.

In SFY we trust!

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04-26-2012, 09:09 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by CCF23 View Post
How is his contract bad for teams that have owners willing to pay the salary? The only way it's bad is if he goes to a team where the owners don't have deep enough pockets to want to actually pay that salary.

In terms of cap hit (which is all the fans should really care about) the contract is fine. There are also "out" clauses later on in the contract, and if he retires at any point, the contract is gone.

It's not a Brian Campbell type deal where the cap hit doesn't justify the player you're getting (even though Campbell had a great year).

Also, Luongo wasn't benched for his play. He was benched to try and shake the team up. Luongo was about the only guy to show up for games 1 and 2.
There will still only be a handful of teams able to try to trade for Luongo due to his NTC and the list of teams he will have to provide. I'm sure Columbus would be looking at him, but does Columbus make Luongo's list - highly unlikely. The small number of GMs Gillis has to deal with to make the trade will reduce the return - can only drive up the cost to a point because there is only a couple of guys in line to pull the trigger on a Luongo deal. It's not Luongo's abilities that reduce his return value but Vancouver's situation (and the length of Luongo's deal which is iffy especially with the expiring CBA). The GMs Gillis will deal with know he is trying to move Lu and I don't see them making it a cake-walk for him.

And in terms of Campbell - yeah, that was a bad contract Chicago was able to move, although they had to take back a salary cap dump player that reduced the overall cap savings they received. So Florida did get something out of the deal up front. And Talon was the guy who signed him in Chicago in the first place so must have liked something about him to bring him down to FL.

With Luongo it really appears it will be a buyer's market (from the few teams able to submit offers). Gillis isn't dealing from a position of strength in the negotiations.

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04-27-2012, 03:24 AM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcGz View Post
The Jay Feastor drafting era decimated this team.

In SFY we trust!
I feel bad for Calgary...Maybe with Yzerman when lightning strikes, we can set a flame all of Feasters wrong doings. My attempt at witty one liner complete.

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04-27-2012, 06:26 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
I feel bad for Calgary...Maybe with Yzerman when lightning strikes, we can set a flame all of Feasters wrong doings. My attempt at witty one liner complete.
and never attempted again...

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04-27-2012, 09:19 AM
  #371
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Originally Posted by viktors89 View Post
I'd be ok with Luongo, not sure Yzerman wants to acquire a goalie that's not young like Bernier...

If I had to trade Malone and a 2nd or 3rd for Luongo... I'd do it, we need Luongo more than Malone
I kind of agree. Although the last 5-6 years of Luongo's contract scare me. Of course, purely hypothetical, he could retire or we could trade him to a team that needs to reach the cap floor (think NYI).

With that contract in mind I think Yzerman would prefer Bernier or Harding. They're gambles, sure, but they fit better financially and give us more flexibility.

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04-27-2012, 10:38 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by LoSTRaMaiR View Post
Edit: let me add, if you all think he is not bad for the room, and is talented, then I don't understand all of the downplaying of his value trade wise.
His contract has an effect on his trade value, some people don't want to give up as much with how much cap space he'll be taking up and how long his contract runs.

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04-27-2012, 10:42 AM
  #373
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His contract has an effect on his trade value, some people don't want to give up as much with how much cap space he'll be taking up and how long his contract runs.

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04-27-2012, 04:31 PM
  #374
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Don Cherry on Coach's Corner: "Luongo is going to go to Tampa".

http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Sports/CBC.../ID=2227535857 (around 5:10)

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04-27-2012, 09:57 PM
  #375
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Don Cherry doesn't know ****.

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