Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Schneider's either close to or is at his prime right now. Luongo, although near the end of his prime, is still a great goalie. Lack is close to being NHL ready, based on the timing Lack will most likely stay a Canuck, first back Luongo up, wait a year or two and take over as the starter.
Lack is the future in the Vancouver net. He'll be hitting his prime just as Luongo fades. Schneider is stuck in a bad spot and should be the first guy to be moved because it doesn't seem like they are going to the reigns away from Roberto at least for a few more seasons...
Mind you, if the Canadiens are able to institute a one-time amnesty clause into the new CBA to buy out a contract, you could see Vancouver buying out Luongo and going with a pairing of Schneider and Lack?
Personally, I think the Canucks will be moving one of Luongo or Schneider after the year ends before moving Lack. Even if the cap increases, I don't see the Canucks sacrificing around 8-9 million in net.
Depends on Schneider's next contract will determine who gets moved and for what.
It's ironic that before the Canucks acquired Luongo, they didn't have a legitimate starter (or a reliable #1) for around 10 years. Cloutier, Snow, Skudra, Irbe, Essensa....
Now that they've got Luongo signed until eternity (a contract Gillis greatly regrets - well I have no idea but IMO he should regret it), but a superb 1A in Schneider, a top tier AHL goalie in Lack, and a blue-chip NCAA in Cannata.
Schneider was in Vancouver organization before Luongo was.
Schneider was in Vancouver organization before Luongo was.
Yet Schneider was all of 19 at the time, Canucks had missed the playoffs due to sub par goaltending down the stretch, and could not rely on Clouts anymore.
They made the switch to a vetern with good experience winning, and really haven't looked back, despite the life long contract.
I doubt any part of management would ever concede that having a legit #1 starter in net is much better than what Vancouver had before.
Schneider will probably be moved at the draft, and Lack will probably be signed to a contract similar to Schneider's, and will be the backup next year.
exactly. Lack's value is too low to trade him and Schneider's value is too high to not trade him. Lack will be a perfect backup.
Yzerman already showed interest in Ben Bishop, he was willing to give as much as a 3th for him (if i remember well, he told it publicly), so it make sense he could be interested in a similar AHL goalie.
Ben Bishop is probably heading to win the AHL goalie of the year Award, but Lack is not far behind. Lack is a year younger, but sometime seen with more potential than Bishop (according to the Goalie Guild).
I know many people on this forum prefer to give a lot more value in the actual performance of a player instead of considering his age/development. But i will still go with my belief and give more value to Lack than Bishop, even if Bishop did a bit better this year.
So i can see Yzerman willing to give as much as a 2nd 2012 + Garon for Eddie Lack. Then sign a veteran (Nabokov of Vokoun) in the off season to mentor Lack until he is ready. Once the veteran contract would be up, it would give time to Tokarski to develop in the AHL until he is ready to make a duo with Lack.
Why Vancouver do this? Garon will provide a cheap, reliable and experienced backup to replace Schneider once Schneider is traded, but its not the main point....
Vancouver future is weak according to the hockey future ranking (29th). I know they want a shot at the cup now, but when come deadline time, they need some prospect/draft pick as currency to be able to get immediate help from team out of the playoff.
Lack is not going to see much action behind Luongo anyway. i dont know all the CBA details and i am not sure about this, but he could become the next Ben Bishop and Vancouver could be obliged to trade him to avoid to lose his right as UFA if he doesnt see enough NHL action until 2014. (i think he need to play 28 games next year).
The timing of this trade could be the draft... or somewhere in the 2012-2013 season. According to Lack and Garon performance next year, the proposal value could be adjusted.
What do you think about it? At least its a fresh perspective on the usual goalie to Tampa Bay proposal.
Terrible. And you should not have to have an explanation why. Hint: It's not the value.
would Vancouver do it though? Lack is our only real NHL ready backup after Schneider, and it seems like we could be Shipping Schneids. Maybe Yzerman goes after him instead? and I see we get Garon, but i'm not a huge fan of his.
Trading your the thrid goalie on your depth chart for a second seems fair. Deifnately should be able to find a suitable back up through FA.
Trading your the thrid goalie on your depth chart for a second seems fair. Deifnately should be able to find a suitable back up through FA.
As far as current value goes, sure, it's far. But we're looking to make him the second goalie on our depth chart and to develop his upside. So considering the circumstances, he's more valuable.
no need to acquire him when we are getting schneider
I dont think you are guaranteed to get Schneider. If the Canucks offense fails in the playoffs, I'd bet strong money Schneider will be a Jacket next season.
Palindrom's obsession with Vancouver goalies continues.
I'm wondering the same myself?? Seems *every time* there's a Schneider thread, same poster is always in the discussion... and now Lack??
It's downright stupid IMO to even suggest something like this. The Canucks don't develop prospects so they can move up in their system to the point where they become useful assets so we can then deal them for 2nd round picks. What kind of a joke organization would run that way?
Lack is in a perfect spot with the Canucks organization... he's developing perfectly to take over from Schneider, just when Schneider needs to be moved. Hopefully this continues as well at the goaltending position, where after 2 or so years, Lack develops enough to warrant a better return, just as Cannata develops into a backup role.
Lack has been in the Canucks plans for a long time... there is NO REASON AT ALL to move him now, just when he's needed in the organization to take over from Schneider.
Last time I checked the Canucks are also contenders, and their top priority is winning the Cup, not accumulating 2nd round picks so they can develop a deeper prospect pool. A prospect who's developed to become a contributing NHLer in such a system is going to have *considerably* more value than a draft pick.
Lack isn't really available, especially not for picks. Schneider will be moved at the draft, that's almost a certainty. Either next season or the season after, Lack will be Luongo's back-up in the NHL. There is a chance depending on how things play out that Lack could be our future starter, and if not he's an asset that could raise in value before we ultimately decide to move him (much like Schneider has).
Yzerman already showed interest in Ben Bishop, he was willing to give as much as a 3th for him (if i remember well, he told it publicly), so it make sense he could be interested in a similar AHL goalie.
Ben Bishop is probably heading to win the AHL goalie of the year Award, but Lack is not far behind. Lack is a year younger, but sometime seen with more potential than Bishop (according to the Goalie Guild).
I know many people on this forum prefer to give a lot more value in the actual performance of a player instead of considering his age/development. But i will still go with my belief and give more value to Lack than Bishop, even if Bishop did a bit better this year.
So i can see Yzerman willing to give as much as a 2nd 2012 + Garon for Eddie Lack. Then sign a veteran (Nabokov of Vokoun) in the off season to mentor Lack until he is ready. Once the veteran contract would be up, it would give time to Tokarski to develop in the AHL until he is ready to make a duo with Lack.
Why Vancouver do this? Garon will provide a cheap, reliable and experienced backup to replace Schneider once Schneider is traded, but its not the main point....
Vancouver future is weak according to the hockey future ranking (29th). I know they want a shot at the cup now, but when come deadline time, they need some prospect/draft pick as currency to be able to get immediate help from team out of the playoff.
Lack is not going to see much action behind Luongo anyway. i dont know all the CBA details and i am not sure about this, but he could become the next Ben Bishop and Vancouver could be obliged to trade him to avoid to lose his right as UFA if he doesnt see enough NHL action until 2014. (i think he need to play 28 games next year).
The timing of this trade could be the draft... or somewhere in the 2012-2013 season. According to Lack and Garon performance next year, the proposal value could be adjusted.
What do you think about it? At least its a fresh perspective on the usual goalie to Tampa Bay proposal.
First the logic of this deal... if the Sens give Bishop a 2nd to be insurance for them this season (since he's in the AHL still) and if you think Lack has more value... then shouldn't he be worth more than a 2nd? Garon has no value given a trade would take place at the draft where quite a few decent NHL backups will be UFAs.
Namely (just a random list)
Huet
Nittymaki
Mason
Ellis
Hedberg
Vokoun (guessing he played himself into a backup now )
Gustavsson
Raycroft
Auld
etc
Most of the list above probably won't cost more than Garon's 1.3mil so finding a vet backup isn't hard at all. If anything, taking Garon is negative value 'cause its the 'nucks doing TBL a favor by taking away a contract that they no longer need from them.
You can almost guarantee that if MG trades Cory (very likely), he will sign a vet backup to a 1 yr deal (possibly even 2 way) and have that backup compete with Lack for the backup job. He might even give a PTO to a goalie to increase competition. So the 'nucks shouldn't need a backup during the year. Even if we do, MG might consider calling up Joe Cannata next season (assuming he gets signed). To be honest he's probably the future for the 'nucks post Luongo while Lack is just a place holder and if his value raises as a backup, he might be dealt then.
As far as currency is concern, MG doesn't make many deals a the deadline. The 29th ranking is rather meaningless. If you look at the 'nucks prospect list, its no where near accurate in terms of ranking the prospects internally. Not to mention the list jumps quite a bit every year (both up and down). Being ranked low really just means the team hasn't had a lot of picks or went off the board a lot to pick unknown players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom
If i am not wrong (i wish someone can confirm this), Lack need to play 28 games next year or could become UFA summer 2013. Similar to Bishop situation.
I can see more chance of him playing 28 games in Tampa Bay than behind Luongo.
That is why i give a large range of timing for this trade, i dont think if Lack doesnt seem NHL ready, Vancouver will keep playing him as they have a good option in Luongo, but the starter in Tampa will probably be a lesser option.
You are wrong about that. Class 6 UFA applies to SPC. Lack is under a ELC so he does not qualify for class 6 UFA at the end of his contract. He has to sign a SPC before he qualifies and by the time his SPC ends (since 1 additional year puts him at 27), he would be a UFA anyways. So class 6 will never apply for Lack.
So if he isn't going to be a UFA anytime soon, that argument is down the drain.
Unless Lack is capable of being a #1 in the NHL next season we should have no interest. But it probably won't matter anyway considering we will get Schneider.
Unless Lack is capable of being a #1 in the NHL next season we should have no interest. But it probably won't matter anyway considering we will get Schneider.
I highly doubt Lack is ready to be a #1, Schneider is primed and ready for that spot, I have no doubt he'll bring elite goaltending to whoever gets him, I'm still hopeful he'll remain a Canuck.
I highly doubt Lack is ready to be a #1, Schneider is primed and ready for that spot, I have no doubt he'll bring elite goaltending to whoever gets him, I'm still hopeful he'll remain a Canuck.
I can't help but think this is Luongo's last chance, if he has a few more 7+ goal games this playoffs Gillis will go with the goalie he thinks has the best chance of winning in the future.
Unless Lack is capable of being a #1 in the NHL next season we should have no interest. But it probably won't matter anyway considering we will get Schneider.
I really hope you do. Schneider deserves to go to an organization that's ready to compete for cups and filled with quality people. He would fit into the Lightning organization like a pair of old shoes. I just hope SY doesn't lowball Gillis and force him to send the kid elsewhere.
I really hope you do. Schneider deserves to go to an organization that's ready to compete for cups and filled with quality people. He would fit into the Lightning organization like a pair of old shoes. I just hope SY doesn't lowball Gillis and force him to send the kid elsewhere.
I'd be surprised if SY and Gillis haven't already had preliminary discussions on Schneider's price and that's why SY was so hellbent on acquiring picks.
You are wrong about that. Class 6 UFA applies to SPC. Lack is under a ELC so he does not qualify for class 6 UFA at the end of his contract. He has to sign a SPC before he qualifies and by the time his SPC ends (since 1 additional year puts him at 27), he would be a UFA anyways. So class 6 will never apply for Lack.
So if he isn't going to be a UFA anytime soon, that argument is down the drain.
is not a ELC a SPC as well? An Entry Level Contract sound like it count as a Standard Professional Contract as well?
Maybe i am wrong about this, can anybody confirm/denies.. im trying to look into this..
Edit: here is what i found on a forum: ''ELCs are no different than a regular SPC except that you can have bonuses and in certain cases they can slide.''
Since Eddie lack will turn 25 next year, i think he need to play 28 games next year or he will be UFA eligible.
So Vancouver doesnt have all the time in the world to develop him, he need to play in the NhL next year.
If by the next deadline, for whatever reason Vancouver doesn't plan to play him enough , trading lack become a strong possibility. The same way Bishop was traded this year.
My initial proposal is in the spirit of a Scenario like this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by denkiteki
First the logic of this deal... if the Sens give Bishop a 2nd to be insurance for them this season (since he's in the AHL still) and if you think Lack has more value... then shouldn't he be worth more than a 2nd? Garon has no value given a trade would take place at the draft where quite a few decent NHL backups will be UFAs.
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I agree that Garon Value is close to Zero, but the Logic about value is there.... Tampa Bay 2nd is expected to be better than Ottawa 2nd. According to the current ranking TMB 2nd could be around 39th overall and ottawa 50th. Not all 2nd round pick are the same, i give more value to Lack than Bishop, but its close. According to the last draft the cost to trade up from 59th to 47th (12 position) is a 3th round pick.
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