Hard to say. Karlsson doesn't have the same sort of team as Green did but his numbers are also not quite as impressive (still very close mind you). I want to say yes but it's really hard to compare. I mean, Karlsson has more assists than the next defenseman has points and still has the most goals too which is basically what people say about Gretzky's career as a forward (now I'm not comparing Gretzky to Karlsson, relax people).
In terms of relative dominance, at least offensively, Karlsson clearly wins but in absolute terms, I say it's close.
Green pumped out 31 goals. As a defenseman. Assuming Karlsson ends the season within +/- 5 points of Greens totals from that season I'd take the guy with 31 goals over the guy with more assists. Now is Karlsson goes PPG or more then yeah sure I can see the argument you could make with taking Karlsson.
Wow, nice poll. This one is way too close to call for me. Karlsson is having an amazing season so far and is one of the major reasons the Sens are in the playoff picture. Having said that, Green had scored over 30 goals in just 68 games. (which is pretty ridic post-lockout.)
Having watched both, I think Karlsson has shown skill I've never seen from any other defenseman, Green included. Green has had the best seasons, quantitatively. However, Karlsson has shown talent that the league hasn't seen in many years. Erik's development has been very steady, and there is no reason to doubt that he'll keep improving. He can still get bigger and stronger, and he feels he can become even faster.
Is he better now than Green was a few years ago? I think so.
Karlsson has the chance to match Green's 09-10 season (although he wont touch his +/-), but I don't think he can post a better season than Greens 08-09 season this year.
If Karl can get 20+ goals and stay at PPG, I think he should be the choice. I mean, it's much more spectacular that a 21 year old is having a season like Karlsson as opposed to a 25 or 26 year old. But statistically, Green may be superior. Green did have 30+ goals, which is pretty much unheard of in todays game. It's too close.
Green can't carry a team, he's not an exceptional defenseman. He was the product of an exceptional offense in Washington. Karlsson all the way.
I think with Green it's a two-way street. They haven't been the same without him just as much as he probably benefited from playing on such a stacked team.
With Karlsson it's also hard to say because the key differences between last year and this year are the coach, a healthy team, and Karlsson's significant improvement. How much of their success is due to each? Even still those factors are interdependent.
All that being said, I don't know what the Sens would do without Karlsson but, aside from 1 game, I haven't seen what they'd do. I'm sure the vintage Caps were fine when Green missed like 10 games but is that really enough to say he didn't contribute as much?
I dunno, I'm probably over complicating this but I just think it's hard to say and the only thing I can go by is relative dominance (I also don't put as much weight into goals as some people).
15 more goals and 6 more points in 1 less game in 08-09... that should say everything you need to say.
Even with scoring down, Karlsson isn't a guy who is going to shut you down defensively either, so the defensive difference between the two of them doesn't make up for the 15 goal difference.
It is underrated the way offensive defenders can provide defense by keeping their team on offense (think about that one for a second), but as of now... Green pretty easily.
Karlsson could have a better season soon though, this one just isn't it.
I think with Green it's a two-way street. They haven't been the same without him just as much as he probably benefited from playing on such a stacked team.
With Karlsson it's also hard to say because the key differences between last year and this year are the coach, a healthy team, and Karlsson's significant improvement. How much of their success is due to each? Even still those factors are interdependent.
All that being said, I don't know what the Sens would do without Karlsson but, aside from 1 game, I haven't seen what they'd do. I'm sure the vintage Caps were fine when Green missed like 10 games but is that really enough to say he didn't contribute as much?
I dunno, I'm probably over complicating this but I just think it's hard to say and the only thing I can go by is relative dominance (I also don't put as much weight into goals as some people).
How do you win without goals??? I agree that Karlsson had less help than Green did, but it's not like Karlsson isn't getting help. That said, I think Green in his prime was a little better than Karlsson is now, that's not any knock on Karlsson though, Green was a monster the year he scored 31 or w/e.
Karlsson's got Green's skill but he's clearly quicker.
If anyone wants to talk about 30 goal ability, Karlsson's got 14 in his last 35.
Before that he was a league low 1.1 shooting percentage and I made a thread predicting that his scoring pace was destined to rise when everything thought he coudn't keep it up. Since then he's scored 37 in his last 35 total.
And I haven't even talked about the supporting cast yet.
Pretty sure the thread is asking "who would you take now?" not "who had the better offensive year".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves
Certainly not bad stats compared to the other two. 5 on 5 analysis only.
Not saying stats tell the full story, but at least in terms of tangible results on odds of winning, the other two don't seem to be head and shoulders above him in terms of preventing goals.
EDIT: Should be noted that to calculate save percentage of goaltender when off I used current rosters with defenseman who have played more than 10 games, and excluded players who were traded from another team (because their numbers aren't reflective of the team they currently play on).
Also, since people seem to love to compare Karlsson to Green even though it makes no sense whatsoever, here is Green's numbers from 2010. Note that I'm not sure if he played on the shutdown pairing or not, nor do I remember who his defensive partner was, but he was 3rd in QoC so I assume he was 2nd pairing, if I'm wrong I apologize.
Note the GA OFF - GA ON of Green versus the other 3 despite not facing top units (again, 3rd in QoC). Staggering.
Not to mention Green played with Ovechkin,Semin,Backstrom, and Laich and Karlsson is playing with Spezza,Spezza, Spezza, and Spezza.
The majority of Green's goals both of those years were on the PP (PPG>50% total goals, PPP> 50% total points) which was top 5 both years and he was 4th in team scoring. Karlsson on the other hand is 2nd in team scoring, while scoring majority of his points ES on a worse offensive team and playing better defensively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves
So Karlsson < Chara/Weber because they are better at defense despite being unprecedentedly worse offensively but
Green > Karlsson despite being much worse defensively and almost (point-wise) statistically identical offensively and playing on a much better team.
Consistency at its finest HFboards
Kadri was rushed that is why he busted yet he has not made the NHL since he was drafted which means he's a bust. HF logic is ****ed up
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Exhibit A as to how hockey doesn't matter on ESPN:
Last night an ESPN program was discussing how the Detroit Pistons needed a hero citing the heroes on the Detroit Tigers, Detroit Lions and no mention of the Detroit Red Wings. All this despite the Red Wings probably being the most succesful team in Detroit right now.
