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Blues vs Anaheim, 7pm (FSMW, KMOX)

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03-09-2012, 02:05 PM
  #251
bleedblue1223
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I really can't believe that our PK is now 9th and our PP is 15th.

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03-09-2012, 02:06 PM
  #252
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Not to be that guy and complain, but discussions like this are precisely why post game threads might be more and more necessary.

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03-09-2012, 02:13 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by illninofan View Post
Not to be that guy and complain, but discussions like this are precisely why post game threads might be more and more necessary.
I disagree. Post-game threads are needed when you approach 1000 posts in the GDT. We're at like 250 here. No reason we can't continue the post-game discussion (as we always have) on our GDT. Its all related. Post-GDT are more for forum management reasons.

As the Blues popularity grows (and this board's traffic) we'll make adjustments. But at the moment, I'm not convinced there's any benefit.

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03-09-2012, 02:33 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I disagree. Post-game threads are needed when you approach 1000 posts in the GDT. We're at like 250 here. No reason we can't continue the post-game discussion (as we always have) on our GDT. Its all related. Post-GDT are more for forum management reasons.

As the Blues popularity grows (and this board's traffic) we'll make adjustments. But at the moment, I'm not convinced there's any benefit.
Ah, cool.

That being the case, I can't wait to see how this team will react to the pressure of the playoffs.

I just wonder how they will decide who to play when/if all the players who are injured come back.

I can live without Crombeen, but I'm not so sure I want to see Reaves or Porter to sit considering how well they've played for us.

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03-09-2012, 03:31 PM
  #255
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Ian Cole has a lot of solid tools. I think he will be fine. It is frustrating to watch him take "silly" penalties, but it's a learning experience. His progression arc has been solid. I'm excited to see him become a regular player for us, but I can also see us trading him.

I think we have the best 4th line in hockey. Those guys just pin the other team into their D-zone and generate chances again and again.

If we can get Steen and Russell back, man oh man I think the sky's the limit for this team.

Great win tonight, let's keep it up against Columbus, they have been dangerous lately.

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03-09-2012, 04:14 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
There is something about that type of defenseman that Blues fans just seem to absolutely HATE. I really don't understand the hate that Jackman and Cole receive. Jackman has gotten less this season, but it just seems to me both of them have completely unrealistic expectations.

Physical defensemen will commit penalties, something that we will happen with Cole. He will start to cut down on the mental penalties, but he will always get a decent amount of penalties IMO, and there is nothing wrong with that. Defenseman take time to develop, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk are only exceptions to the rule.
Cole will likely be a more productive offensive contributor than Jackman. I see Cole establishing himself as a 25-30-point guy in the NHL. He'll be a better defender than Colaiacovo. Much more physical & sandpapery, far less fragile.

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03-09-2012, 04:15 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I really can't believe that our PK is now 9th and our PP is 15th.
PP is 14th. Calgary (15th) = 17.06. Blues = 17.12.

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03-09-2012, 04:21 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
PP is 14th. Calgary (15th) = 17.06. Blues = 17.12.
Well sweet, take that nhl.com

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03-09-2012, 04:21 PM
  #259
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Crombeen has been much better this year than he was last year. I wasn't overly impressed with him his first few games back but he's really been solid for this club. He's a big body and his forecheck is strong, and he's not taking dumb penalties. When opponents talk about the Blues playing a man's game, Crombeen is definitely part of that.

Sounds like Russell, Langenbrunner and Huskins will all be available around the middle of next week. Either by the Carolina game or the Tampa game. Russell seems to be moving forward with his concussion, D'Ags seems to have had a couple bad days, as he hasn't skated. After the Tampa game next Saturday they fly home to St. Louis for a couple days of practice before heading west to play Anaheim/LA/Phoenix. If Steen is going to play this year, maybe that's when he'd rejoin the team for practices and start getting his conditioning back.

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03-09-2012, 04:34 PM
  #260
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With this win the Blues now have their highest point total since the lockout. And they still have 14 games left to play. Incredible. Not even the most optimistic of us would have thought the Blues would have a shot at the President's trophy this season.

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03-09-2012, 04:35 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
There is something about that type of defenseman that Blues fans just seem to absolutely HATE. I really don't understand the hate that Jackman and Cole receive. Jackman has gotten less this season, but it just seems to me both of them have completely unrealistic expectations.

Physical defensemen will commit penalties, something that we will happen with Cole. He will start to cut down on the mental penalties, but he will always get a decent amount of penalties IMO, and there is nothing wrong with that. Defenseman take time to develop, Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk are only exceptions to the rule.
I don't hate Jackman. I respect his style or play. I believe Jackman is one of the best shot blockers in the league. My only issues with Jackman are is he can never clear the puck out of the zone on the PK and forces a ton of turnovers by doing so. Plus after aging what little offensive talent he had has gone away, he makes a lot of blind passes that again result in turnovers and since he doesn't have speed he ends up getting burnt.

I understand Pietrangelo and Shatty are early developers. What I was saying is just by watching Pie play when he first came to St. Louis, even with the mistakes he made I could see he would become something great. What Cole is lacking is learning from his mistakes, this is what made Pie develop into the player he is. You guys overrate him so bad that a lot of you don't realize it.

Ian Cole looks like he has offensive promise, but he will never hit 30 points. I look at Ian Cole the same way I look at EJ, just a waste of talent. He has all the tools, and was hyped up to be good (yes I know not as good as EJ but still he was way over hyped.), but he just doesn't deliver. You say it takes time but in today's hockey the learning curve isn't as steep as you think it is.

I guess what I'm saying is, he isn't completely awful and useless, but is severely overrated by us Blues fans.

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03-09-2012, 04:37 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Cole will likely be a more productive offensive contributor than Jackman. I see Cole establishing himself as a 25-30-point guy in the NHL. He'll be a better defender than Colaiacovo. Much more physical & sandpapery, far less fragile.
I agree, just saying that those are the main 2 that get talked bad about a lot that don't deserve it. Cole has more upside than Jackman, but I believe they will be similar players. Cole has more potential as a skater and is definitely more comfortable on the offensive side. All the Cole hate has baffled me, just like all the Jackman hate.

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03-09-2012, 04:44 PM
  #263
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In regards to the magic number thread on the main boards... it says the Blues' magic number is 12 to clinch a playoff spot. This means that they need a collection of 12 points either won by the Blues or lost by the #9 seed to clinch a spot, right? So, if the Blues won 3 games and whoever the #9 is lost 3 games, the spot would be clinched? It will be nice when that happens... I think it's safe to assume it could happen on this upcoming road trip. It won't be quite as climactic as the clinching game in 2009 but it'll be pretty nice to see.

If the Blues can win both of the games this weekend against Columbus, they'd have a 5 game winning streak for the first time this season. On the other hand, if they lose on Saturday, Columbus would have a 5 game winning streak before the Blues this season haha.

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03-09-2012, 04:55 PM
  #264
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This is the magic number site I use as a reference. It's a matrix so you can see what the magic number is team by team.

Currently (and ignoring tiebreakers which tend to favor the Blues due to their strong ROW count):

Can't be caught by Columbus or Edmonton.
– vs. MIN: 3
– vs. ANA: 4
– vs. COL: 8
– vs. CGY: 10
– vs. LAK & PHX: 12
– vs. DAL, SJ & CHI: 15
– vs. NSH: 23
– vs. DET: 27
– vs. VAN: 28

If they lost every remaining game in regulation I think they'd still get in.

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03-09-2012, 04:57 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Stillflexin View Post
I guess what I'm saying is, he isn't completely awful and useless, but is severely overrated by us Blues fans.
Being called a future 2nd pairing defenseman is not being overrated.

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03-09-2012, 05:05 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Being called a future 2nd pairing defenseman is not being overrated.
Yeah, totally agree.

Also I'd be shocked if he didn't hit 30 points at least one time in his career. He is clearly above Jackman and Polak when it comes to offensive instinct. He was the #1 d-man on a top NCAA program that went to the national championship game one of his years. He put up plenty of points for them. That doesn't always translate to the pros but he's been involved in enough scoring chances at the NHL level I feel certain he'll hit 30 at least once if not establish himself as a regular 30 point guy. He can pass and move the puck and he's a smart player.

Don't know where Stillflexin is getting the idea that Blues fans have massively overrated Cole. Here's what Hitchcock had to say to JR in today's Morning Skate:

Quote:
With Kent Huskins out, defenseman Ian Cole has stepped in and played back-to-back games for the Blues. He had an assist in Thursday's 3-1 win over Anaheim, helping set up Patrik Berglund's goal.

Cole played 15:53 against Chicago and 14:52 against Anaheim, and in the two games combined, he's a plus-1. He has three penalties total, including two for interference and one roughing.

"He's had some really good stretches and then ... he's had some stretches where he's tried to overextend himself, defensively or whatever," Hitchcock said. "I think moving forward, if we're going to use him as a real player, we're going to have to work with him on the good things he's doing. He's got strength one-on-one and he moves the puck at times well. But defensively, we got to get him to receive the rush more rather than attack people. He's taking some penalties attacking people.

"That's just patience. I think it's just getting him to be more patient in his game will make him a better player. The way he plays and his skill-set is, less is more. It's not so much more with the puck, it's without the puck. Overexuberance at times. If we can get that calmed down at times, we're going to get a good player here."

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03-09-2012, 05:22 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Being called a future 2nd pairing defenseman is not being overrated.
It's hard to consider any defesemen overrated because there are only 3 pairings and it is pairings, unlike forwards where there 4 lines of 3 people on each line. Nearly every defesemen is going to make it to the NHL by sometime in their 20's, after their 20's if they are still not NHL ready they are dumped. Just because they are on a 2nd pairing doesn't mean they are going to be severely overrated. You alos have left and right handed defensemen. Are you saying Huskins is better than Shattenkirk because he played a few games as first line with Petro? I hate the idea of basing someone's pairing number with their skill. It's just stupid.

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03-09-2012, 05:27 PM
  #268
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I was at the Chicago game as well sitting in section 126. I don't understand what anyone see's in him. What has he done that has made him stand out? I've seen more mistakes the games he has played at an NHL level than he has done good. The idiot even got suspended this year for a headshot. He takes way too many stupid penalties and I don't see the offensive upside you guys talk about. Or are you talking about when he steps up to take a slapshot to either go wide or get blocked then gets cleared to create a 2 on 1 for the other team. I know a lot of you on here love him for some reason, I just don't see it. Thats 2 ****ing games in a row he has taken a blatant interference call.
Preface: I am not saying Ian Cole will be as good as Chara, Stevens, etc.

Commentary like this is how I know the Blues have not had or failed to develop the requisite number of physical defensemen. Not enough experience dealing with hotheaded players.

I remember getting very aggravated with Pronger, I can only imagine Whaler fans frustration with him.

I remember wanting someone to tie Scott Stevens to the bench, and that was after he had calmed down significantly from his days in Washington. A buddy of mine spent most of his time complaining about the young, hot-headed defenseman...until the Blues signed him.

A lawyer I knew in Ottawa was certain she could have Chara claimed mentally infirm for some of the monumentally stupid things he did there his first season or two on the Senators.

I remember being in disbelief that someone who played along side Al MacInnis could be so dumb (Jackman) as to take completely unnecessary penalties at most inopportune times (I think I referred to him as the biggest bonehead since Shanahan during one particularly ignoble third period where he kept being baited by one pest or another) as I was certain some of Mac's considerable patience would have rubbed off on him at some time.

All of those defensemen have gone on and have very serviceable careers. Young, physical defensemen are known for taking stupid penalties especially when something unexpected comes along. Find me a good physical defenseman and I will show you a player who took some very stupid penalties when young.

However, I can agree Cole he has failed to make the moves out of the zone the Blues are going to require in the future from their back-line, but that should improve. So will his patience, so will his decision-making. Cole will be a serviceable defenseman in the future...possibly not top 2 but almost certainly top 4.

Frankly, if anyone has trouble believing such and think him nothing more than trade bait then I am most pleased said person has nothing to do with the Blues organization. P9's above quotation of Hitchcock seems to be quite accurate. The Blues know Cole is a talented young player and plan to handle him as such.

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03-09-2012, 05:37 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Stillflexin View Post
It's hard to consider any defesemen overrated because there are only 3 pairings and it is pairings, unlike forwards where there 4 lines of 3 people on each line. Nearly every defesemen is going to make it to the NHL by sometime in their 20's, after their 20's if they are still not NHL ready they are dumped. Just because they are on a 2nd pairing doesn't mean they are going to be severely overrated. You alos have left and right handed defensemen. Are you saying Huskins is better than Shattenkirk because he played a few games as first line with Petro? I hate the idea of basing someone's pairing number with their skill. It's just stupid.
Uh, what? His draft position, college career, and his production in the AHL and NHL to this point have only indicated that he will be a solid pro player.

Saying that nearly every defenseman is going to make the NHL is a pretty ridiculous statement.

Cole has played games with Petro, and I am not saying that is his talent level. Petro and Shattenkirk are our 2 top pairing level defensemen IMO. Jackman, Polak, and Colaiacovo are all 2nd pairing talent level defensemen, and Huskins in a 3rd pairing talent level defenseman. Cole's potential falls into the 2nd pairing level.

That is a general description of talent levels. Of course some players play above their level, and in our case Pietrangelo hides their deficiencies. Others like Polak play below their talent level.

Cole's potential is being a 3/4 defenseman, while being able to be a #2 next to a defenseman like Pietrangelo. Pietrangelo can raise the level of his partner, which is why we are able to get away with Colaiacovo and Huskins as his partners.

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03-09-2012, 05:47 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Stillflexin View Post
It's hard to consider any defesemen overrated because there are only 3 pairings and it is pairings, unlike forwards where there 4 lines of 3 people on each line. Nearly every defesemen is going to make it to the NHL by sometime in their 20's, after their 20's if they are still not NHL ready they are dumped. Just because they are on a 2nd pairing doesn't mean they are going to be severely overrated. You alos have left and right handed defensemen. Are you saying Huskins is better than Shattenkirk because he played a few games as first line with Petro? I hate the idea of basing someone's pairing number with their skill. It's just stupid.
Dude, you're starting to sound like a hermit yelling on a hillside. (loud minority) I don't see who this mass of people over-rating Cole is, that you reference.

He's young. He makes some mistakes of immaturity (attacking when he should be more patient) and has showed a little rust after sitting out for an extended period before the last couple games. You keep referencing offensive stats, but those aren't really the important part of Cole's game. He's got more ability in that area than Polak/Jackman, but so what? He's a strong, fast, defensive defenseman. He's going to grow into that role more, and be a great player for us. Or....he'll be a great player for someone else and moved as a piece that improves the Blues' club.

I completely don't get the comparison to EJ. I was skeptical about Cole last season, but this year he's really turned my opinion around.

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