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....Is he not a backup goalie? If you think it's fair to call Schenn a "bottom pairing defenceman" which he is at the moment, then Schnieder is a backup goalie..
Schneider has the talent to be a starter on many teams including Toronto. Schenn while still talented (I'm a fan of him) is on the bottom pairing on the 3rd worst defensive team in the league. They've allowed 7 fewer goals then Columbus for heaven sake. And if he was moved to Vancouver he would play on the bottom pair.
There is no way in hell Vancouver would even talk to Toronto about Schneider if Gardiner wasnt included in a deal. And since Toronto wont moved him (nor should they IMO) Schneider wont be traded to Toronto.
Goalies get so overvalued, Schenn won't be traded for a goalie. Leafs would be much better off signing a UFA goalie and not give up any assets.
Similar to "Leafs better off signing UFA #1 center" yada yada.
What UFA goalie(s) are you referring to? Provide a list of names. And even then the Leafs are gambling that said UFA goalie actually wants to sign in Toronto.
Schneider has the talent to be a starter on many teams including Toronto. Schenn while still talented (I'm a fan of him) is on the bottom pairing on the 3rd worst defensive team in the league. They've allowed 7 fewer goals then Columbus for heaven sake. And if he was moved to Vancouver he would play on the bottom pair.
There is no way in hell Vancouver would even talk to Toronto about Schneider if Gardiner wasnt included in a deal. And since Toronto wont moved him (nor should they IMO) Schneider wont be traded to Toronto.
End of thread.
Steve Mason had the "Talent" to be a starter, too. It all depends on what team you play for. If you are saying Schenn is playing awful on a last place team..doesnt the rule apply that Schneider would be playing amazing because he's on the 1st place team? The point is, he has NEVER been a consistent season long starter. I'm not sure how he would play if he came to Toronto, where as i'm sure Schenn would start to regain his form. It's a double edged sword here.
Steve Mason had the "Talent" to be a starter, too. It all depends on what team you play for. If you are saying Schenn is playing awful on a last place team..doesnt the rule apply that Schneider would be playing amazing because he's on the 1st place team? The point is, he has NEVER been a consistent season long starter. I'm not sure how he would play if he came to Toronto, where as i'm sure Schenn would start to regain his form. It's a double edged sword here.
You're undervalueing Schneider, he's well beyond Mason. Take it from someone who's seen him play plenty of times. This guy has the ability to be a number 1 goalie easily. And obviously if he were on Toronto he would see alot more pucks then he does on Vancouver. But that doesnt take away from how well he's played. In 25 games he has a 2.09 GAA and .923 SV%. That's starter material there without a doubt.
As for Schenn his development stalled under Wilson how it does under Caryle is anyone's guess. But he's still a defensive defensemen and Vancouver can probably get more then him for Schneider.
You're undervalueing Schneider, he's well beyond Mason. Take it from someone who's seen him play plenty of times. This guy has the ability to be a number 1 goalie easily. And obviously if he were on Toronto he would see alot more pucks then he does on Vancouver. But that doesnt take away from how well he's played. In 25 games he has a 2.09 GAA and .923 SV%. That's starter material there without a doubt.
As for Schenn his development stalled under Wilson how it does under Caryle is anyone's guess. But he's still a defensive defensemen and Vancouver can probably get more then him for Schneider.
I never meant to compare his skill to Mason. You said he has the "Talent" to be a number one starter. Thats what Columbus thought and he had a good season but plummeted after that. I agree that you can get more than Schenn for Schneider, it's just Leaf fans are tired of getting "What if goalies" (Reimer, Gus etc..) So we want to get something good in return if we are going to give up players.
I never meant to compare his skill to Mason. You said he has the "Talent" to be a number one starter. Thats what Columbus thought and he had a good season but plummeted after that. I agree that you can get more than Schenn for Schneider, it's just Leaf fans are tired of getting "What if goalies" (Reimer, Gus etc..) So we want to get something good in return if we are going to give up players.
Ask some Vancouver fans about it. There are plenty of them that would rather Schneider be there starter over Luongo.
And frankly that is all that is available young what if goalies. Everyone else is signed or on the downturn of their careers. If the Leafs somehow got him I doubt they would be disappointed in him. He's going to be a good goalie for many years in this league.
take out the extra players/picks. Canucks have no need for mac and no interest in trading schroeder or their first.
Shenn + Reimer for Schneider is a fine starting point, though the leafs have to take some salary back to counteract the 5.4 they are sending to the canucks. Ballard and his 4.2 would fit nicely, and allow the canucks salary control on D by swapping ballard for schenn.
Schneider is the real deal. IMO, he's been our most consistent player this year. Rarely has a bad game.
Is there a risk that he flames out like other young goalies? Sure there's a small one, like there is with any young player. But that's the risk you take when you trade for a young goalie who is not yet a number one on his current team. I'm pretty confident that some team will pay a fairly high price to get him. I'll also be sad to lose him.
Disagree with values of Schroeder vs Kadri. Jordan Schroeder = 2 way forward and can contribute on the 3rd line in 1 or 2 years and move up if there's an opening. He also started to find his offensive game recently but it seems like fatigue is having a effect on him (reason he's at least another year away). Kadri is a top 6 or bust type player who is a mess in his own end. He has no chance of being a center in the top 2 line for years in Vancouver (i.e. Hodgson). Given the way AV coaches, Kadri would likely be stuck in the AHL for years. So from a 'nucks POV Schroeder > Kadri from an organizational need point of view.
Gunnar vs Schneider... let see where would Gunnarsson play on the 'nucks roster? He isn't replacing Rome because AV loves Aaron Rome. MAG has so far been pretty good (and same age) likely will get an extension with the 'nucks. Of course there's Tanev who deserves to be in the line-up and probably would be soon. So Gunnarsson ends up anywhere from 6th to 8th dman on the roster. Not to mention he's 25 so he isn't exactly young. On the other hand we have a goalie thats worth more than a 1st rounder as various teams are willing to give up 1st + or a blue chip prospect. Why take a 25 yrs old dman (who might not even make the line-up) instead of those offers?
Also MG and BB aren't exactly friendly. A trade between the 'nucks and Leafs likely won't happen until next season... after BB gets fired.
....Is he not a backup goalie? If you think it's fair to call Schenn a "bottom pairing defenceman" which he is at the moment, then Schnieder is a backup goalie..
Schneider is not playing like a backup goalie this year.
Schenn is playing like a bottom pairing defenceman.
I don't understand why Leafs fans keep trying to shove players like MacArthur and Reimer down our throats and telling us how great they are. A whole bunch of lesser players adding up do not equal the value of a blue chipper (I am calling Cory a blue chipper because of the rumored asking price). Quantity =/= Quality. It's like those obnoxious Canucks fans who keep offering up Raymond, Ballard, draft picks to fans and asking for players like Weber and Parise in return.
You're undervalueing Schneider, he's well beyond Mason. Take it from someone who's seen him play plenty of times. This guy has the ability to be a number 1 goalie easily. And obviously if he were on Toronto he would see alot more pucks then he does on Vancouver. But that doesnt take away from how well he's played. In 25 games he has a 2.09 GAA and .923 SV%. That's starter material there without a doubt.
As for Schenn his development stalled under Wilson how it does under Caryle is anyone's guess. But he's still a defensive defensemen and Vancouver can probably get more then him for Schneider.
Actually Schneider has a 2.09 GAA and a .932SV%.
Luongo in comparison has a 2.39 GAA and a .919SV%.
Last season Schneider had a 2.23 GAA and a .929SV%.
Last year Schneider was sheltered a bit but this year he's been just as good as Luongo (post his early season struggles).
The argument could be made he's already better than Luongo, however whether he can handle the bulk of games a #1 does is the real question.
Gillis if he decides to deal Cory will get a LOT back, he's the real deal.
Actually Schneider has a 2.09 GAA and a .932SV%.
Luongo in comparison has a 2.39 GAA and a .919SV%.
Last season Schneider had a 2.23 GAA and a .929SV%.
Last year Schneider was sheltered a bit but this year he's been just as good as Luongo (post his early season struggles).
The argument could be made he's already better than Luongo, however whether he can handle the bulk of games a #1 does is the real question.
Gillis if he decides to deal Cory will get a LOT back, he's the real deal.
Agreed. And he will try for a quality young player in return. He has no interest in receiving a lot of quantity back without the high quality. We already have depth players.
Ask some Vancouver fans about it. There are plenty of them that would rather Schneider be there starter over Luongo.
Yup... There are Canuck fans that are hoping that Schneider takes over from Luongo during the playoffs and wins a Cup for the Canucks. That's maybe the only way that Luongo is moved instead of Schneider, as he's likely to waive his NTC at that point and want a fresh start since he'd be torn to shreds in this market.
Most of us know that isn't realistic however and the goalie without the long-term deal and NTC is going to be moved.
It's too bad really... As a long-time Canuck fan who's been on what seems like an endless cycle of mediocre goaltending, it was finally nice to see one of our own draft picks developed so well, and now needs to be dealt because of not having a spot for him behind a long-term deal. Forget goalies, Schneider is one of the best developed prospects to be drafted and developed through this system that we've ever had. That may not be saying much considering the crap this organization has drafted and failures in their development, but it was finally nice to see a prospect developed properly in this system.
Before all is said and done I am quite certain that Columbus will have an offer in for Schneider. Not saying he'll end up in Columbus but I would think they'll make a pretty strong push for him.
take out the extra players/picks. Canucks have no need for mac and no interest in trading schroeder or their first.
Shenn + Reimer for Schneider is a fine starting point, though the leafs have to take some salary back to counteract the 5.4 they are sending to the canucks. Ballard and his 4.2 would fit nicely, and allow the canucks salary control on D by swapping ballard for schenn.
'nucks have no interest in Reimer. We have Eddie Lack who was BETTER than Reimer before Reimer got called up last year. And considering how Reimer's career has started going downhill, i think 'nucks fan want to stay as far away from Reimer as possible.
Before all is said and done I am quite certain that Columbus will have an offer in for Schneider. Not saying he'll end up in Columbus but I would think they'll make a pretty strong push for him.
Yeah I wouldn't be shocked, the rumour was that Columbus thought they'd start the season with a Schneider/Manson duo in net, them not taking back Bernier from LA makes me think they might push hard for Schneider, I can also see TBL and TOR making a hard push to get him too. I hope we move Luongo tho... we spent so much time developing Schneider and following him from College to the Moose and now NHL, I think most Nuck fans want to keep him here and he's just going to start in his prime years.
You're undervalueing Schneider, he's well beyond Mason. Take it from someone who's seen him play plenty of times. This guy has the ability to be a number 1 goalie easily. And obviously if he were on Toronto he would see alot more pucks then he does on Vancouver. But that doesnt take away from how well he's played. In 25 games he has a 2.09 GAA and .923 SV%. That's starter material there without a doubt.
As for Schenn his development stalled under Wilson how it does under Caryle is anyone's guess. But he's still a defensive defensemen and Vancouver can probably get more then him for Schneider.
Andrew Raycroft was 9-5-1 and a 2.42 GAA and .911 Save % 2 years ago when he played for Vancouver. He's in the AHL now.
The year before he played with Vancouver he was 12-16-0 3.14 GAA and .892 Save%. Before that he was a Leaf.
There hasn't been one decent proposal in this entire thread. Vancouver still expects to get a top-10 pick for Schneider? Good grief
Bob Mckenzie said that LA got an offer in the ball park of a good 1st rounder and a high prospect for Bernier. What makes anyone think Schneider wouldn't get that haul or even more?
Bob Mckenzie said that LA got an offer in the ball park of a good 1st rounder and a high prospect for Bernier. What makes anyone think Schneider wouldn't get that haul or even more?
Schneider may get that, but not from the Leafs. A team who is a goalie away from being a contender can trade a 1st for him. A team about to be a lottery team should not. contract status will also play a role. Schneider will be a UFA in a year (if he chooses to), Bernier has another full year at $1.25 and then becomes an RFA.
As a Leaf fan, I don't want to pay a high price for a guy who is one year away from being UFA eligible.
