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LW Magnus Paajarvi Svenson
RW Ryan Jones
D Theo Peckham
2nd Round Pick in 2012
D Kevin Shattenkirk
Yeah I went there. Shattenkirk is a dman we could use. I am not sure what Blues want, but this seemed fair value wise IMO. Oilers fans will probably think its too much and Blues might think its too little.
Realistically, what are St. Louis' needs for the team?
LW Magnus Paajarvi Svenson
RW Ryan Jones
D Theo Peckham
2nd Round Pick in 2012
D Kevin Shattenkirk
Yeah I went there. Shattenkirk is a dman we could use. I am not sure what Blues want, but this seemed fair value wise IMO. Oilers fans will probably think its too much and Blues might think its too little.
Realistically, what are St. Louis' needs for the team?
Lots of garbage in that package.
Doubt St. Louis would move Shats for anything resembling that package, they'd probably be asking for your 1st Rd Pick this year (and adding just a little to sweeten it)
Doubt St. Louis would move Shats for anything resembling that package, they'd probably be asking for your 1st Rd Pick this year (and adding just a little to sweeten it)
Wouldnt call it garbage by any strecth of the immagination.
MPS still has tons of potential and finally seems to have his confidence back. He is unreal fast and a huge body (6'3) so he just needs to have confidence in the NHL to be a solid top 6 guy.
Jones can be thrown on any line when injuries hit. He goes to the dirty areas and always gives 100%. Real heart and soul guy. Scores 15+ goals off the Oilers third line so thats impressive.
Peckham is just to thrown on your defense for toughness.
The 2nd is going to early (31-33) probably so its like a late first.
Just cause you dont watch them or have them, doesnt mean they are garbage.
Honestly, I don't know anything about Jones, but I don't really see why the blues would do this. They are in win now mode, and will be next season as well. They already have plenty of forward depth and are planning on Tarasenko coming next season. I don't see how that trade really helps the blues immediately. Shattenkirk is an important part of our defense.
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Realistically, what are St. Louis' needs for the team?
A left handed Shattenkirk.
St. Louis doesn't move Shatty. There is no need to do so. It really doesn't matter the package (because lets face it, the Oilers aren't going to offer Hall, RNH, or Eberle). And beyond that there isn't much that makes the Blues a better team as a whole.
MPS doesn't offer the Blues anything they lack (which is scoring) and with the prospects ready to step a full time roll, he becomes redundant.
A guy to take a real look at may actually be Fairchild. Very simular player, but Cade spent all four years in college and is in his first year as a pro. At one point had the best +/- in the AHL. Like Shatty he is small, but moves the puck well and is very solid in the dzone. He played in a couple of games this year and has looked at home in the NHL. (It is a numbers game for the Blues - with 7 dmen on one way tickets, and then Cole).
Fairchild could be had and would be a better target then a core player.
Honestly, I don't know anything about Jones, but I don't really see why the blues would do this. They are in win now mode, and will be next season as well. They already have plenty of forward depth and are planning on Tarasenko coming next season. I don't see how that trade really helps the blues immediately. Shattenkirk is an important part of our defense.
Sorry. I shouldve specified that this would be a draft trade. It would make no sense to do right now.
Sorry. I shouldve specified that this would be a draft trade. It would make no sense to do right now.
Well, yeah, I figured that's what it was, since the trade deadline is past. But hypothetically speaking, the deal wouldn't help the blues immediately (or starting next season), since it downgrades our D and only adds more depth to the forwards. If the blues were a rebuilding team and shattenkirk was 28 or older, I could maybe seeing them send him off for a package with potential, but that isn't the case.
I almost wrote the same thing in my original post, that Frenzy did. That the blues needed a Left Handed Shatty, haha
MPS seems liek he may be one of those forwards who only has potential that never developes. I defniatley do not see him flourishing under Hitchcock. HIs value alone is probably a 2nd or 3rd rounder. So substitute that in there and ask your self if you would do it form a blues perspective.
Paajarvi's value is at it's lowest and he looks too passive to play in the NHL. Jones is a decent bottom six forward, but nothing special. Peckham has been the whipping boy for the Oilers this season, why would we want a dman that apparently takes penalties at the worst time, and is lacking any hockey IQ? The 2nd round pick is useless, we don't want futures.
Awful proposal, if you want Shatty, put up one of the big three. You may not like it, but no one outside of those three interest me from EDM, and Shatty has proven he is a stud as well.
In the other Blues/Oilers thread there are claims that "Shattenkirk" is a franchise defenseman.
So if the OP would have read that he would have known it was pointless to make this thread
Find me that. No one thinks Shatty is a franchise dman - especailly Blues fans. But he has top pairing upside and is very, very good right now. No reason for the Blues to trade him. None - without addressing another team need.
We need an elite offensive center or a LH Shatty. Edmonton will not likely trade their 3 elite players. So there is no deal to be made between the 2 teams.
Terrible for the Blues. Even ignore the value, the pieces coming back don't address any needs.
Funnily enough, I was speaking to an Oilers fan about Shatty a week or so ago and he was thinking along the lines of the Oilers first and Marinčin for Shattenkirk, Cole and the Blues second. Even though the value would probably favour the Blues in the long term, even and offer like that wouldn't get Shattenkirk.
The guy I want from Edmonton is Anton Lander, but unless Edmonton's first rounder and Ladislav Smid come with him, the Oilers aren't getting Shattenkirk.
Find me that. No one thinks Shatty is a franchise dman - especailly Blues fans. But he has top pairing upside and is very, very good right now. No reason for the Blues to trade him. None - without addressing another team need.
We need an elite offensive center or a LH Shatty. Edmonton will not likely trade their 3 elite players. So there is no deal to be made between the 2 teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by letmesleep
It's actually pretty decent value but I think Edmonton says no. If we want to get one of their 3 young forwards, I think the asking price starts with Shattenkirk+. They need a franchise defenceman and it just so happens that we have two.
Shattenkirk is an upgrade over anything the Oilers have currently when it comes to offense but his defensive game isnt great(not poor either). He's not a 1st pairing defenseman so not sure why Blues fans would think he could return a player like Hall, Eberle, or RNH.
Shattenkirk is an upgrade over anything the Oilers have currently when it comes to offense but his defensive game isnt great(not poor either). He's not a 1st pairing defenseman so not sure why Blues fans would think he could return a player like Hall, Eberle, or RNH.
Sorry about that. I think that is the only guy who said he was a franchise dman, and he was shot down right away by other blues fans.
His d zone game is actually pretty strong. Just moves the puck quickly that he doesn't get stuck in the zone much. With the game the Blues play, opponents dont get a ton of sustained pressure. But when they do, he does win a lot of board battles, and uses his stick well. Very strong on his skates despite his size. I think he very much combares to Boyle. (and I think Boyle is a top pairing guy).
Again, if you looking for a PP QB with high IQ, but solid in the zone. Cade Fairchild should be the target. Much more reasonable price.
I don't think you will find Blues fans saying that he can return one of the big 3, but I see no reason to deal him for prospects and picks. If we are NOT upgrading a position, there is NO REASON TO MAKE A DEAL.
The issue is we have wingers on MPS level in the NHL and in our pool. We don't need grinders to fill out the bottom 6 or 3 pairing dmen. WE HAVE A TON OF Depth, but nothing in the elite category for offense. Every Blues fan will admit the Oilers are not going to move one of the Big 3. But there isn't much else there that makes the Blues a better team. So there really isn't much to be done between the oilers and Blues unless it was a minor deal.
Shattenkirk is an upgrade over anything the Oilers have currently when it comes to offense but his defensive game isnt great(not poor either). He's not a 1st pairing defenseman so not sure why Blues fans would think he could return a player like Hall, Eberle, or RNH.
Yes, I said that. If you read my next post after that you would have seen how I admitted I was a bit too liberal with the phrase.
I disagree with your assessment of Shatty not being a 1st pairing defenseman, though. The kid can flat out play and he would be groomed to be a top pairing defenseman on a lot of other teams, including the Oilers. Being behind Petro on the depth chart kind of screws with that in St. Louis though. In that context, a trade of Shatty for Hall/Eberle could take shape. However, Edmonton would certainly be receiving one or two extra pieces along with Shatty.
What I could see happening:
Shatty + One of the top 4 Blues wingers (same side as whichever Oiler comes our way) + One of our top 5 prospects
for
One of Hall/Eberle + 3rd pairing defenseman type
It's a pretty steep price for either team but being a GM is about trading from strength to address weakness.
EDIT: Here is my follow-up post in case you missed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by letmesleep
He is a young guy that would challenge for a top pairing spot on a lot of clubs and can play point on a first pp unit. I've seen opposing fans say things like "man, it really isn't fair they have both Pietrangelo AND Shattenkirk." I realize I was a bit liberal with the phrase "franchise defenceman" but the point still stands that he is the player Edmonton would be targetting with a trade. So while I reluctantly agree he might not be a "franchise defencemen", I definitely disagree with your assessment of "not even close."
Last edited by letmesleep: 03-08-2012 at 12:03 PM.
Reason: Added quote.
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