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04-02-2012, 09:32 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I'll stick with Morrow who is going to be the PP QB this team desp. needs. Once he, Despres and Letang are in the lineup together, their transition game will be something to behold.

A 6'1 205 lb blue liner with his combo of mean and skill is much more valuable than a player like Saad.
That's fine, especially if morrow turns into something similar to a lefty Letang. But passing on a local kid projected as a top 10-15 talent, that late, who's now ripping it has Marino karma written all over it.

I mean, it's known our scouts really like morrow, and so do I. But it really brings to mind this question...

Why the hell did we draft Esposito at that time, but pass on Saad? Considering Saad had a lot more to like from a systematic and personal point of view. Both were considered top talents who fell, potentially making them both the "holy" BPA late in the round.

Just thinking in type here.

And I just remembered, I guess that was the Greg Malone scouting holdovers, but Shero was the man in charge.


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04-02-2012, 09:59 AM
  #252
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They passed on Saad because he wasn't the best player on their board...Joe Morrow was.

Only way we could have got Saad was if we traded up to the top of the 2nd round.

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04-02-2012, 10:29 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
They passed on Saad because he wasn't the best player on their board...Joe Morrow was.

Only way we could have got Saad was if we traded up to the top of the 2nd round.
Obviously. But like I posed in my previous post. I wonder why Saad wasn't higher on their board considering he was projected much higher and we'd already shown a penchant for taking high ranking guys who fell, a la Esposito and Despres. When you factor in the localness it makes me wonder even more.

From what I've heard the team also seemed impressed with his personality and character after they had all the local prospects in to tour the cec and get a preview of what the NHL is like.

It just makes me wonder were they really that high on morrow, or were they buying the same bread as the 29 other teams who passed on him because they thought his effort wasn't there. When it turned out he was injured (groin) and it wasn't work ethic, youd have thought if any team would realize it, it would have been us. It would have been awesome to hear our draft tables conversation leading up to our pick to see if he was being discussed seriously.

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04-02-2012, 10:32 AM
  #254
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That's fine, especially if morrow turns into something similar to a lefty Letang. But passing on a local kid projected as a top 10-15 talent, that late, who's now ripping it has Marino karma written all over it.

I mean, it's known our scouts really like morrow, and so do I. But it really brings to mind this question...

Why the hell did we draft Esposito at that time, but pass on Saad? Considering Saad had a lot more to like from a systematic and personal point of view. Both were considered top talents who fell, potentially making them both the "holy" BPA late in the round.

Just thinking in type here.

And I just remembered, I guess that was the Greg Malone scouting holdovers, but Shero was the man in charge.
Saad's stock was dropping his entire draft year, he didn't put up that great of numbers and a lot of people seemed critical of him not using his size to his advantage and being too much of a one dimensional perimeter player. Meanwhile Morrow was practically putting up the same numbers as him from the backend while playing a solid defensively and adding to Portland's transition game. And Morrow's style of play would fit like a glove here.

Your 'holy' bpa assessment doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering Morrow was ranked near #12 and we grabbed him at #23 and Saad fell somewhere towards the late first round to early second.

If we drafted Saad and passed on someone ranked much higher who became a better player, then everyone would be *****ing that we only drafted Saad because he was a local boy. No matter what Shero does he can't win. And Saad was Chicago's third pick of that draft for crying out loud, it doesn't seem like they were that royally high on him either. It's nice that Saad has upped his game it seems, but I'm still more than happy with the Morrow pick and would still probably take him over Saad at this point.

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04-02-2012, 10:36 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
Obviously. But like I posed in my previous post. I wonder why Saad wasn't higher on their board considering he was projected much higher and we'd already shown a penchant for taking high ranking guys who fell, a la Esposito and Despres. When you factor in the localness it makes me wonder even more.

From what I've heard the team also seemed impressed with his personality and character after they had all the local prospects in to tour the cec and get a preview of what the NHL is like.

It just makes me wonder were they really that high on morrow, or were they buying the same bread as the 29 other teams who passed on him because they thought his effort wasn't there. When it turned out he was injured (groin) and it wasn't work ethic, youd have thought if any team would realize it, it would have been us. It would have been awesome to hear our draft tables conversation leading up to our pick to see if he was being discussed seriously.
Because they projected Joe Morrow higher. Morrow was as highly rated as Saad, except the question marks hadn't crept up with Morrow.

We took Esposito and Despres because they were the highest guys on our board. You're sort of answering your own question here. It has nothing to do with "Oh, well this guy is falling past where he was ranked with TSN...let's grab him." Each team has guys rated very differently. I believe it was with Bennett where some teams were said to have him ranked in the 2nd round. Shero didn't...he thought he was a 1st round talent. Shero had Morrow ranked above Saad.

The questions on Saad weren't 1 year deep either. People always questioned his desire, and people questioned why such a big man played such a soft game. These concerns weren't newly founded. And being a local boy doesn't mean squat. You take the guys who you have ranked higher.

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04-02-2012, 11:20 AM
  #256
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Because they projected Joe Morrow higher. Morrow was as highly rated as Saad, except the question marks hadn't crept up with Morrow.

We took Esposito and Despres because they were the highest guys on our board. You're sort of answering your own question here. It has nothing to do with "Oh, well this guy is falling past where he was ranked with TSN...let's grab him." Each team has guys rated very differently. I believe it was with Bennett where some teams were said to have him ranked in the 2nd round. Shero didn't...he thought he was a 1st round talent. Shero had Morrow ranked above Saad.

The questions on Saad weren't 1 year deep either. People always questioned his desire, and people questioned why such a big man played such a soft game. These concerns weren't newly founded. And being a local boy doesn't mean squat. You take the guys who you have ranked higher.
I know im sort of answering my own question, thats why I said im thinking in type, aka thinking aloud.

Im trying to have a discussion, not an argument over whose the best because as I said I like morrow, and hindsight is always 20-20. Everything here has to be right or wrong, black or white, so I tried to make it obvious im thinking hypothetically here.

I just think that when you see what saads doing this year, with much less talent around him compared to morrow, its quite impressive and may come back to bite us a bit. I liked Saad last year and I kind of figured he was injured or just needed time to adjust as such a highly touted American playing his first year in Canada would have immense pressure on him.

And id really love to know how much thought was given to him and where he was on our board.


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Old
04-02-2012, 11:24 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
I know im sort of answering my own question, thats why I said im thinking in type, aka thinking aloud.

Im trying to have a discussion, not an argument over whose the best because as I said I like morrow, and hindsight is always 20-20. Everything here has to be right or wrong, black or white, so I tried to make it obvious im thinking hypothetically here.

I just think that when you see what saads doing this year, with much less talent around him compared to morrow, its quite impressive and may come back to bite us a bit. I liked Saad last year and I kind of figured he was injured or just needed time to adjust as such a highly touted American playing his first year in Canada would have immense pressure on him.
And what you're describing happens year after year, and will continue to. Fact is, not using hindsight, Morrow was ranked higher on our board than Saad. Hell...Saad was passed up by 30 other teams too.

I think Morrow showed this past training camp that he's going to be, at the very least, a middle pairing PPQB. He has very good potential to be a top pairing, minute munching offensive defenseman. Those are so much more sought after than wingers.

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04-02-2012, 11:35 AM
  #258
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And what you're describing happens year after year, and will continue to. Fact is, not using hindsight, Morrow was ranked higher on our board than Saad. Hell...Saad was passed up by 30 other teams too.

I think Morrow showed this past training camp that he's going to be, at the very least, a middle pairing PPQB. He has very good potential to be a top pairing, minute munching offensive defenseman. Those are so much more sought after than wingers.
Yea I know, it just doesn't happen year after year with such a highly touted local prospect, unless maybe you live in a major Canadian market.

And Shero did mention they had an opportunity to move down in the draft last year, and given that he said this after the first round...

"Saad seemed to be on the Penguins radar, at least to a degree, but picking Morrow ahead of him apparently was a pretty easy call for the scouts.

"Brandon, he's a good player, but we had the defenseman ahead [on our rankings]," Shero said. "Saad's going to be a good player in the league. We'll see how things work out down the road."


Read more: http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/11176/1156260-61-0.stm#ixzz1qtw79v2n"

Id imagine the thought was to trade down for Saad. And by the last sentence in that quote I get a small hint that Shero really liked Saad but he went with his scouts.

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04-02-2012, 11:50 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
Yea I know, it just doesn't happen year after year with such a highly touted local prospect, unless maybe you live in a major Canadian market.

And Shero did mention they had an opportunity to move down in the draft last year, and given that he said this after the first round...

"Saad seemed to be on the Penguins radar, at least to a degree, but picking Morrow ahead of him apparently was a pretty easy call for the scouts.

"Brandon, he's a good player, but we had the defenseman ahead [on our rankings]," Shero said. "Saad's going to be a good player in the league. We'll see how things work out down the road."


Read more: http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/11176/1156260-61-0.stm#ixzz1qtw79v2n"

Id imagine the thought was to trade down for Saad. And by the last sentence in that quote I get a small hint that Shero really liked Saad but he went with his scouts.
I think you're reading too far into it.

And you need to drop the local thing. It means absolutely nothing. We've passed on every Pittsburgh kid that has been in the draft since Shero took over GM.

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04-02-2012, 02:59 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
It would have been awesome to hear our draft tables conversation leading up to our pick to see if he was being discussed seriously.
does such a thing exist? I think i remember seeing something like this a few years back for the Capitals..

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04-02-2012, 07:06 PM
  #261
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Yea I know, it just doesn't happen year after year with such a highly touted local prospect, unless maybe you live in a major Canadian market.

And Shero did mention they had an opportunity to move down in the draft last year, and given that he said this after the first round...

"Saad seemed to be on the Penguins radar, at least to a degree, but picking Morrow ahead of him apparently was a pretty easy call for the scouts.

"Brandon, he's a good player, but we had the defenseman ahead [on our rankings]," Shero said. "Saad's going to be a good player in the league. We'll see how things work out down the road."


Read more: http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/11176/1156260-61-0.stm#ixzz1qtw79v2n"

Id imagine the thought was to trade down for Saad. And by the last sentence in that quote I get a small hint that Shero really liked Saad but he went with his scouts.
His birthplace means less than nothing. In fact, I'd think a whole lot less of our scouting staff if was a factor at all, because it sure as hell shouldn't be.

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04-02-2012, 07:18 PM
  #262
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Not understanding this conversation. Morrow was a much better pick.

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04-02-2012, 07:20 PM
  #263
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Not understanding this conversation. Morrow was a much better pick.
Well, that's to be determined.

I wouldn't trade Morrow for Saad today if given the chance though, if that's what you mean.

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04-02-2012, 07:51 PM
  #264
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Ill take Morrow's skillset over Saad's for this team moving forward.

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04-02-2012, 07:58 PM
  #265
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I'm not so sure that the concerns about Saad in his draft year won't creep up. The times we played against him in the beginning of the season...he was a perimeter player. He was able to get muscled up on. He didn't play up to his size. Sure he has great size and good offensive instincts, but he could be so much better than what he is.

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04-02-2012, 08:12 PM
  #266
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I'm not so sure that the concerns about Saad in his draft year won't creep up. The times we played against him in the beginning of the season...he was a perimeter player. He was able to get muscled up on. He didn't play up to his size. Sure he has great size and good offensive instincts, but he could be so much better than what he is.
Yep. Hell, Saad isn't even the best forward we passed on.

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04-02-2012, 09:52 PM
  #267
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That's fine, especially if morrow turns into something similar to a lefty Letang. But passing on a local kid projected as a top 10-15 talent, that late, who's now ripping it has Marino karma written all over it.

I mean, it's known our scouts really like morrow, and so do I. But it really brings to mind this question...

Why the hell did we draft Esposito at that time, but pass on Saad? Considering Saad had a lot more to like from a systematic and personal point of view. Both were considered top talents who fell, potentially making them both the "holy" BPA late in the round.

Just thinking in type here.

And I just remembered, I guess that was the Greg Malone scouting holdovers, but Shero was the man in charge.
There were rumors Marino was a coke head, so that is why he was passed over.

They passed on Saad because Morrow was the better player and I am 99.9% sure when you see him in a Pens uniform you will understand why.

He is going to bring a sick amount of skill to this team and unlike Letang, he is a beast on the PP. He knows when to shoot and when to pass, he is great (and I mean great) at lateral skating and forcing the box to open up so he can get his howitzer on net.

He doesn't hesitate like Letang - he makes instant decisions and the puck is off his stick.

When he is out there with Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Neal, as I said once before - those 5 will put the fear of God in other teams - and it will all be running through Morrow (because he is that good).

His offensive game is NHL elite already (I have zero doubts about that). He looks very sound in his own end, but you never know until he spends time in the pros (A and NHL). He may get in the A and be a trainwreck defensively - we`ll see.

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04-02-2012, 09:55 PM
  #268
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Why the hell did we draft Esposito at that time, but pass on Saad?
Probably because, and I know I'm going out on a limb here but just hear me out, they were two different draft years with different pools of players.

I know, I know. Crackpot theory.

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04-03-2012, 12:59 AM
  #269
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Probably because, and I know I'm going out on a limb here but just hear me out, they were two different draft years with different pools of players.

I know, I know. Crackpot theory.
Mr. Burns. You r crazy.

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04-03-2012, 10:29 AM
  #270
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Looks like Sneep is done for the season, going under the knife. I wonder if the Pens will even resign him. He's been a big disapointment as a second round pick. On the other hand Grant is having a terrific season and has given the Pens good reason to give him another contract.

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04-03-2012, 11:14 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
There were rumors Marino was a coke head, so that is why he was passed over.

They passed on Saad because Morrow was the better player and I am 99.9% sure when you see him in a Pens uniform you will understand why.

He is going to bring a sick amount of skill to this team and unlike Letang, he is a beast on the PP. He knows when to shoot and when to pass, he is great (and I mean great) at lateral skating and forcing the box to open up so he can get his howitzer on net.

He doesn't hesitate like Letang - he makes instant decisions and the puck is off his stick.

When he is out there with Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Neal, as I said once before - those 5 will put the fear of God in other teams - and it will all be running through Morrow (because he is that good).

His offensive game is NHL elite already (I have zero doubts about that). He looks very sound in his own end, but you never know until he spends time in the pros (A and NHL). He may get in the A and be a trainwreck defensively - we`ll see.
So he's the replacement for Gonchar?

I gotta say - I think Letang is a darn good player but I think that a booming shot from the point would be a great boon for our team. Even at even strength with the way we let the defense pinch in.

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04-03-2012, 11:15 AM
  #272
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I get very excited when I picture Morrow and Despres getting the quality scoring chances that our D get on a game-game basis.

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04-03-2012, 01:05 PM
  #273
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Looks like Sneep is done for the season, going under the knife. I wonder if the Pens will even resign him. He's been a big disapointment as a second round pick. On the other hand Grant is having a terrific season and has given the Pens good reason to give him another contract.
Not sure what they'll do with Sneep. Good to hear that Grant is doing so well. I had high hopes for him a few years back.

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04-03-2012, 03:15 PM
  #274
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So he's the replacement for Gonchar?

I gotta say - I think Letang is a darn good player but I think that a booming shot from the point would be a great boon for our team. Even at even strength with the way we let the defense pinch in.
I don't think much about his game is like Sarge. But ya he can replace him as the missing PP QB no doubt.

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04-03-2012, 03:23 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
There were rumors Marino was a coke head, so that is why he was passed over.

They passed on Saad because Morrow was the better player and I am 99.9% sure when you see him in a Pens uniform you will understand why.

He is going to bring a sick amount of skill to this team and unlike Letang, he is a beast on the PP. He knows when to shoot and when to pass, he is great (and I mean great) at lateral skating and forcing the box to open up so he can get his howitzer on net.

He doesn't hesitate like Letang - he makes instant decisions and the puck is off his stick.

When he is out there with Letang, Crosby, Malkin and Neal, as I said once before - those 5 will put the fear of God in other teams - and it will all be running through Morrow (because he is that good).

His offensive game is NHL elite already (I have zero doubts about that). He looks very sound in his own end, but you never know until he spends time in the pros (A and NHL). He may get in the A and be a trainwreck defensively - we`ll see.
Thats huge for me. I really wanted to hate going with a defenseman again in the draft but Morrow is just way to good. IMO he's better than Letang at the same age. Letang had some hockey to learn when going pro... Morrow already knows it.

It starting to look like the BPA is going to be a defenseman again this year. The boards are going to explode this summer.

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