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Old
03-12-2012, 09:48 AM
  #51
bigd
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
Hes listed near the same as them but there's no way he's actually 6'1". Hes dwarfed by neal and 6'1" would mean hes only an inch shorter? Nuh uh. He is similar to martin in body type and strength, but Letang is much thicker and stronger. Straits probably about 185-190, just like martin.

Which like I said, is fine if he was a puckmover. But I don't think his shot blocking shutdown ways are suited for his body in the NHL. If he had more skill and nasty he could maybe carve out a Francis boullion career, but boullion was clearly the exception, not the rule. And even then, he was rarely healthy.
He's always been 6'1" 200lbs Just go back to the 06 draft combine and check the numbers. NHL players always start the season off with a good weight but as the season wears on tend to lose 5-10 lbs from their training camp weight. Those numbers are what they come into training camp as.
Anyways, your the guy that raves about Samuellson so I don't put too much stock in you opinion.

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03-12-2012, 09:53 AM
  #52
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He's always been 6'1" 200lbs Just go back to the 06 draft combine and check the numbers. NHL players always start the season off with a good weight but as the season wears on tend to lose 5-10 lbs from their training camp weight. Those numbers are what they come into training camp as.
Everything I read about Strait back in the day when he was being drafted listed him at 6'0. Things say 6'1 now. He could have grown an inch, but I've never heard of a guy who was 18 having another growth spurt where he grows a full inch. He could have though.

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Old
03-12-2012, 09:54 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Strait's size wont be a problem, He's pretty solid for a guy his height and his game isn't built on physicality.
agreed, except his height is probably 5'11" not the 6'1" listed. And his lower body looks small when you see him on the boards with NHL players.


And its not that I think he's bad, I just don't see him finding a clear role. Even if we had room for a purely shutdown type defender on the roster I doubt wed want an undersized one who isn't very physical. Like I said if he gets more aggressive I could see a boullion type career, but boullion had more skill to go with his attitude and skating. And we've just got too many defenders who bring more to the table. Its going to be real hard for him to stick without finding a more defined niche like boullion.

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03-12-2012, 10:00 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
agreed, except his height is probably 5'11" not the 6'1" listed. And his lower body looks small when you see him on the boards with NHL players.


And its not that I think he's bad, I just don't see him finding a clear role. Even if we had room for a purely shutdown type defender on the roster I doubt wed want an undersized one who isn't very physical. Like I said if he gets more aggressive I could see a boullion type career, but boullion had more skill to go with his attitude and skating. And we've just got too many defenders who bring more to the table. Its going to be real hard for him to stick without finding a more defined niche like boullion.
I don't see a problem with Strait's size in the least. He's a stalky guy at around 6'0 tall. I don't think he'll have a problem at all.

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03-12-2012, 10:03 AM
  #55
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Everything I read about Strait back in the day when he was being drafted listed him at 6'0. Things say 6'1 now. He could have grown an inch, but I've never heard of a guy who was 18 having another growth spurt where he grows a full inch. He could have though.
I believe his Combine height was 6'-1/2" and weight was 200 lbs. When they come into training camp every year they are tested to see if they were active in the off season. I don't think the Pens would list him at 6'1" if he wasn't at least close. Anyway, I don't think he shrunk to below 6' as Sina wants to believe.

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03-12-2012, 10:05 AM
  #56
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Whatever. It's neither here nor there. HF has him listed at 6'0. I distinctly remember him being listed at 6'0 when he was drafted. The Pens website have him listed at 6'1. Either way, he's around 6'0 which is good size, and he's definitely over 200 lbs and has a solid, thick build.

Size shouldn't even be a concern.

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Old
03-12-2012, 10:22 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
He's always been 6'1" 200lbs Just go back to the 06 draft combine and check the numbers. NHL players always start the season off with a good weight but as the season wears on tend to lose 5-10 lbs from their training camp weight. Those numbers are what they come into training camp as.
Anyways, your the guy that raves about Samuellson so I don't put too much stock in you opinion.
Aww, still bitter because I've made you look foolish before? I love how you try and hold the fact I support samuelsson against me, like I've already been proven wrong. But not only that you exagerate it by saying I "rave" about him, just to make yourself feel even better about taking a shot at me. And you keeeeep bringing it up, like you think it's leverage to make people think im dumb and your smart. If anything it proves youre a tool whose trying to look cool on the internet. And Just so the mods know, youre the one who keeps bringing it up when I start hassleing your effeminately sensitive ass. Id love to see you try and be such a smartass when you weren't hiding on the internet.

Anyway, I guess you don't take much stock in the penguins organization then, considering they drafted the kid in the top 60 his year. Or that they signed him early out of college, or that he started in wbs as a 20 year old, or that he showed very good progress in wbs the first 3 months, or the fact he was never relegated to the echl like YOU predicted.

Yea none of that matters, cuz you think youre cool on message boards. I forgot, acting like a whiney bitter baby makes you correct on the internet.

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03-12-2012, 10:27 AM
  #58
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Whatever. It's neither here nor there. HF has him listed at 6'0. I distinctly remember him being listed at 6'0 when he was drafted. The Pens website have him listed at 6'1. Either way, he's around 6'0 which is good size, and he's definitely over 200 lbs and has a solid, thick build.

Size shouldn't even be a concern.
I honestly don't think he will still be with the Pens next year. I think he will be traded at the draft and he will be in the NHL with another team next season. If he isn't traded he will never make it through waivers. Same with Bortuzzo, both will be resigned and we won't have room for both unless some regulars are moved.

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03-12-2012, 10:32 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Whatever. It's neither here nor there. HF has him listed at 6'0. I distinctly remember him being listed at 6'0 when he was drafted. The Pens website have him listed at 6'1. Either way, he's around 6'0 which is good size, and he's definitely over 200 lbs and has a solid, thick build.

Size shouldn't even be a concern.
It shouldn't, but I think it will. He looked flat out small out there and he was getting worked behind our net several times pretty hard. His skating saved him a few times, as did Lovejoy. But he's gonna struggle mightily against teams with a heavy forecheck at the NHL level.

And like i said, his lower body looks small as well. Regardless of specific stats, just looking at him on tv he's the smallest or 2nd smallest guy on the ice. Which isn't a good thing if youre not a forward. Rewatch the game or some highlights, its obvious when looking for it.

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03-12-2012, 10:32 AM
  #60
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Aww, still bitter because I've made you look foolish before? I love how you try and hold the fact I support samuelsson against me, like I've already been proven wrong. But not only that you exagerate it by saying I "rave" about him, just to make yourself feel even better about taking a shot at me. And you keeeeep bringing it up, like you think it's leverage to make people think im dumb and your smart. If anything it proves youre a tool whose trying to look cool on the internet. And Just so the mods know, youre the one who keeps bringing it up when I start hassleing your effeminately sensitive ass. Id love to see you try and be such a smartass when you weren't hiding on the internet.

Anyway, I guess you don't take much stock in the penguins organization then, considering they drafted the kid in the top 60 his year. Or that they signed him early out of college, or that he started in wbs as a 20 year old, or that he showed very good progress in wbs the first 3 months, or the fact he was never relegated to the echl like YOU predicted.

Yea none of that matters, cuz you think youre cool on message boards. I forgot, acting like a whiney bitter baby makes you correct on the internet.
You made me look like a fool? Was that in your dreams? LOL You should really look in the mirror. But whatever, I know a lot more than you think about the Pens org. I have a good laugh at some of these posts.

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Old
03-12-2012, 10:36 AM
  #61
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I haven't watched him that closely to notice him being outmuscled down low, but wasn't Strait's game based on the fact that he's smart defensively and strong?

You don't have to be well over six feet to make an impression physically. Again maybe it's because I wasn't looking close enough but until today lack of strength is nothing I really heard associated with Strait's game.

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Old
03-12-2012, 10:47 AM
  #62
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You made me look like a fool? Was that in your dreams? LOL You should really look in the mirror. But whatever, I know a lot more than you think about the Pens org. I have a good laugh at some of these posts.
No, it was on here. Last time I checked samuelsson spent 1 game in the echl to get a game in when wbs had a long break and then was returned. Thats not the relegation to the echl you were all but guarenteeing. Or when you tried continuously to rip his hockey sense when there are direct quotes from our assistant gm and then director of player development stating that was one of his best assets. You tried extrapolating a few bad games from a rookie 20year old as him never having hockey sense and never being able to find it.

And I don't care what you think you know about the pens org or what posters think your a wbs expert. I know you were willing to almost 100% conclusively write off a 20 year old 2nd round pick whose done nothing but project up after 25 pro games. That tells me all I need to know about what you THINK you know.

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03-12-2012, 10:55 AM
  #63
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No, it was on here. Last time I checked samuelsson spent 1 game in the echl to get a game in when wbs had a long break and then was returned. Thats not the relegation to the echl you were all but guarenteeing. Or when you tried continuously to rip his hockey sense when there are direct quotes from our assistant gm and then director of player development stating that was one of his best assets. You tried extrapolating a few bad games from a rookie 20year old as him never having hockey sense and never being able to find it.

And I don't care what you think you know about the pens org or what posters think your a wbs expert. I know you were willing to almost 100% conclusively write off a 20 year old 2nd round pick whose done nothing but project up after 25 pro games. That tells me all I need to know about what you THINK you know.
The only reason he's not in Wheeling is because the team is in turmoil. Believe me, he would be better off playing in the ECHL than sitting in the press box in WBS. If you think that makes me look like a fool then go ahead and relish that. He would have been better off playing a major role in BC's run to another National Championship as one of the leaders on the team. Unless guys get called up or there are injuries he's relegated to a spare part the rest of the season.
Just for the record I never wrote off Samuellson I just think he should have stayed at BC another season before turning pro. He may or may not turn out to be an NHL player but he's a long way off. IMHO

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03-12-2012, 11:44 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by sina220 View Post
It shouldn't, but I think it will. He looked flat out small out there and he was getting worked behind our net several times pretty hard. His skating saved him a few times, as did Lovejoy. But he's gonna struggle mightily against teams with a heavy forecheck at the NHL level.

And like i said, his lower body looks small as well. Regardless of specific stats, just looking at him on tv he's the smallest or 2nd smallest guy on the ice. Which isn't a good thing if youre not a forward. Rewatch the game or some highlights, its obvious when looking for it.
He didn't look small. He looked like an average sized defenseman, which is what he is. He's not weak nor small.

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Old
03-12-2012, 12:07 PM
  #65
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It shouldn't, but I think it will. He looked flat out small out there and he was getting worked behind our net several times pretty hard. His skating saved him a few times, as did Lovejoy. But he's gonna struggle mightily against teams with a heavy forecheck at the NHL level.

And like i said, his lower body looks small as well. Regardless of specific stats, just looking at him on tv he's the smallest or 2nd smallest guy on the ice. Which isn't a good thing if youre not a forward. Rewatch the game or some highlights, its obvious when looking for it.
I don't think I've seen any one person be so consistently wrong on just about everything as you seem to be.

...well maybe ONE other person...

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03-12-2012, 12:20 PM
  #66
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I don't think I've seen any one person be so consistently wrong on just about everything as you seem to be.

...well maybe ONE other person...
No, no. That person is just calling it like they see it.

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03-12-2012, 12:29 PM
  #67
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I dont understand why a player has to be tall to play a "shot blocking type of shutdown role". Hal Gill doesnt block shots with his chest.

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03-12-2012, 12:40 PM
  #68
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I dont understand why a player has to be tall to play a "shot blocking type of shutdown role". Hal Gill doesnt block shots with his chest.
If you have two players of equal ability and brains, then yes, bigger is always better. But just being bigger is no guarantee that a player is going to make it to the NHL just as being smaller is no guarantee that a player won't make it. Ray Bourque was only 5'11" although he was about 220lbs when he matured into a hall of fame D-man.

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03-12-2012, 12:44 PM
  #69
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I don't think I've seen any one person be so consistently wrong on just about everything as you seem to be.

...well maybe ONE other person...
Oooh, I think that was an official jab!

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03-12-2012, 12:54 PM
  #70
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Short, small and weak are three different things. Strait is arguably a little bit of the first two, but he isn't weak.

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03-12-2012, 01:48 PM
  #71
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Im also having doubts about straits NHL potential. I just don't see him ever becoming a regular. Hes built like a puckmover, but lacks offensive instincts, and his size is certainly going to hold him back as a "shutdown" defender. His defensive instincts and skating are both carrying him right now, which is fine. I just don't see it carrying him much beyond a "first Gallup" type guy. He looked a little small in wbs, but he looks downright puny against NHL skaters.
Not talking about their overall ability, but just in regards to the bolded, why would Strait's size hold him back at the NHL level, but guys like Josh Gorges and Matt Carle do just fine in a defensive role? Both of those guys are listed at 6'0" and around 195 - 205 lbs.

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03-12-2012, 02:55 PM
  #72
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Not talking about their overall ability, but just in regards to the bolded, why would Strait's size hold him back at the NHL level, but guys like Josh Gorges and Matt Carle do just fine in a defensive role? Both of those guys are listed at 6'0" and around 195 - 205 lbs.
Carles the same size but gorges is listed at 210 and certainly appears thicker than strait. Either way I wouldn't really want to rely on Carle much in a defensive role long term. His puckmoving is clearly his best asset and is worlds ahead of strait.

I can't post an image from my phone but here's a link to a photo from the rookie tournament that shows strait, thiesen, and the 6'5" 215 lbs listed brayden Irwin from Toronto's system in the same shot in front of goal. Thiessen is listed at 6', and he's about as big as strait, given some perspective that hes in the background. But thiessen is crouched and would probably be taller if standing. Strait and Irwin however are side by side, and if straits supposed to be 200 and only giving 4 inches and 15 lbs to Irwin I don't see it.

http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Brayden+Irwin/Brian+Strait

My whole point either way has been that he looked very small out there and I don't know that he can be successful long term, especially with this team, in his limited role. I think my Francis boullion association fits well. If strait can become more physical and bring more to the table he's got a shot in the NHL long term. That does come with durability risks too. But good skating, smallish, bottom of the rotation defenders are pretty easy to come by, not even considering our system. Guys like picard, Hutchinson, Richmond, Wagner, nasreddine a few years ago, etc all could bring similair things to a team. And even if strait is the best defensively, most of them brought more in flat out skill and offensive ability than him. You can see how their careers went. I just don't think his defensive awareness and skating are going going to get him by alone long term realizing how small he appears in the NHL.

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03-12-2012, 03:02 PM
  #73
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If you have two players of equal ability and brains, then yes, bigger is always better. But just being bigger is no guarantee that a player is going to make it to the NHL just as being smaller is no guarantee that a player won't make it. Ray Bourque was only 5'11" although he was about 220lbs when he matured into a hall of fame D-man.
Sure bigger is better. I just dont follow his reasoning.
Hes too short to be a shot blocking type of Dman but he can be Bouillion if he gets way nastier??
So if he was bigger he could block shots, but since hes not he should try and hit people more?

Sina you make it sound like all NHL dmen have to fall into 3 very specific categories.

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03-12-2012, 04:02 PM
  #74
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Im also having doubts about straits NHL potential. I just don't see him ever becoming a regular. Hes built like a puckmover, but lacks offensive instincts, and his size is certainly going to hold him back as a "shutdown" defender. His defensive instincts and skating are both carrying him right now, which is fine. I just don't see it carrying him much beyond a "first Gallup" type guy. He looked a little small in wbs, but he looks downright puny against NHL skaters.
This is just wrong. Did you see his games? The guy out muscled puck carriers with good consistency. Plus as others have stated he has a solid build. There are a lot of teams out there that he would playing on their big club.

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03-12-2012, 04:35 PM
  #75
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Yeah, sina has pretty much blown up any talent analysis credibility he has had.

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