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05-15-2012, 02:17 PM
  #926
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
The difference is they called up Despres over two other canidates who would of filled in nicely.

So maybe DB wasn't blowing sunshine up his ass, since they did exactly as they said.
Well they blew smoke up Bortuzzo's and probably Sneep & Grant too. Strait was the first call up but he only lasted one period. But like I said, they pretty much tell that to all the prospects with NHL contracts and then they judge them during their AHL season. That's what makes them work harder.

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05-15-2012, 02:38 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
The guys we are paying millions of dollars don't know them
That is because we have to trade the whole blueline, they all suck I hear.

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Originally Posted by bigd View Post
Well they blew smoke up Bortuzzo's and probably Sneep & Grant too. Strait was the first call up but he only lasted one period. But like I said, they pretty much tell that to all the prospects with NHL contracts and then they judge them during their AHL season. That's what makes them work harder.
That is called lying then and I doubt they hand the same line to all of their prospects, because it would be disingenuous and they would lose credibility with these players.

It isn't like the prospects in the A don't discuss what they were told.

You would have to be a pretty stupid org to hand them all the same company line.

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05-15-2012, 04:24 PM
  #928
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Pens signed D Reid McNeill. Always like to see the late-rounders make it. Wonder if he'll be re-united with Harrington once the latter makes it to WBS.

I get a Scuds-like vibe from McNeill.

Is Uher soon to follow?

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05-15-2012, 04:36 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
Pens signed D Reid McNeill. Always like to see the late-rounders make it. Wonder if he'll be re-united with Harrington once the latter makes it to WBS.

I get a Scuds-like vibe from McNeill.

Is Uher soon to follow?
Wasn't Uher already signed, or was that just to a try out for the playoffs?

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05-15-2012, 04:37 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Tasty Biscuits View Post
Pens signed D Reid McNeill. Always like to see the late-rounders make it. Wonder if he'll be re-united with Harrington once the latter makes it to WBS.

I get a Scuds-like vibe from McNeill.
I remember chatter that between Rogalski (the puck-mover) and McNeil (the shut-down guy) only one would end up getting signed. so does this signal the end of the road for Rogalski?

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05-15-2012, 04:39 PM
  #931
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There was no chance in hell Rogalski was getting a contract here.

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05-15-2012, 04:47 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
That is because we have to trade the whole blueline, they all suck I hear.



That is called lying then and I doubt they hand the same line to all of their prospects, because it would be disingenuous and they would lose credibility with these players.

It isn't like the prospects in the A don't discuss what they were told.

You would have to be a pretty stupid org to hand them all the same company line.
Believe me, it's the same line but just in different variations. Guys that have entry level contracts have no leverage so even if they talk it makes no difference. They can't go anywhere else anyway. The free agents that they sign come in thinking they are goint to crack the NHL lineup because they feed them a line of bull about how they fill a need with the big club. They are here one year and gone the next. It's one of the better organisations but the all play the same games.
Morrow will go the same route as Despres. He will come to camp and be one of the first to get sent down. Everyone will be crying that he didn't have a good camp but the fact is that this is already Shero's plan and he won't vary too much from it unless injuries force his hand.
I really don't want to see Bortuzzo or Strait go. I hope Shero can make room for them on the big club even if it means sending Despres back to WBS.

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05-15-2012, 05:06 PM
  #933
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Never seen McNiell play which I can't say about a lot of our prospects. Nice to see a 6th round pick at least contribute at the AHL level.

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05-15-2012, 05:46 PM
  #934
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makes sense given it's highly unlikely Strait and Bortuzzo are back in WBS next year.

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05-15-2012, 05:52 PM
  #935
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Wasn't Uher already signed, or was that just to a try out for the playoffs?
Both he and Uher got tryouts and were black aces during their playoff run.

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05-15-2012, 05:56 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
DB apparently told Despres to be ready when he got sent down in March, that he was on the short list of blueliners they would call up first in the playoffs if injuries hit... And he was true to his word.

The fact he was brought up over a vet like Picard, who played well during his callups and even Bortuzzo tells you they think he can handle NHL minutes. This was during the playoffs that they made this choice, which is pretty telling.

I already talked about Letang as well. So it would seem just recently two guys most of us expected to spend a couple yrs in the A, have been more NHL ready than we gave them credit for.

As I keep saying, Morrow is more disciplined than both of them were coming out of jr... Both Despres and Letang were pretty boneheaded at times and their understanding of little things like stick positioning, how their feet should be pointed, in zone assignments, etc. were not at the same level Morrow is at now. It doesn't mean he is perfect, but he is more well rounded than they were.

Once he learns the system and his assignments in the def zone, he will be NHL ready. It will then be about depth holding him back, nothing more.
What Letang did coming out of junior was special. He was a dynamic producer on a much less dynamic team than Morrow's Winterhawks and had the experience of two WJC golds, especially the last, where he was team captain and one of the two best defensemen in his age group in the world. Coach Craig Hartsburg, a great two-way NHL defenseman in his own right back in the day, was glowing about Letang's defense, too.

Meanwhile, Joe didn't even make the WJC team. The two really aren't comparable heading into their first pro seasons.

It's more reasonable to compare Morrow to Despres, and expect a similar path. Spend most of the year in WBS learning the nuances of the pro game, with call-ups if (when) the team sustains injuries on the back-end and needs a PMD type.

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05-15-2012, 06:35 PM
  #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
DB apparently told Despres to be ready when he got sent down in March, that he was on the short list of blueliners they would call up first in the playoffs if injuries hit... And he was true to his word.

The fact he was brought up over a vet like Picard, who played well during his callups and even Bortuzzo tells you they think he can handle NHL minutes. This was during the playoffs that they made this choice, which is pretty telling.

I already talked about Letang as well. So it would seem just recently two guys most of us expected to spend a couple yrs in the A, have been more NHL ready than we gave them credit for
.

As I keep saying, Morrow is more disciplined than both of them were coming out of jr... Both Despres and Letang were pretty boneheaded at times and their understanding of little things like stick positioning, how their feet should be pointed, in zone assignments, etc. were not at the same level Morrow is at now. It doesn't mean he is perfect, but he is more well rounded than they were.

Once he learns the system and his assignments in the def zone, he will be NHL ready. It will then be about depth holding him back, nothing more.

I like Despres, so don't get me wrong, but getting the call over a veteran like Picard is not much of a compliment, as the latter is a pretty lousy NHL player, with no upside within the organization. Bortuzzo's injury-riddled season and the fact that he plays the right-side and Despres being a lefty was also a factor in that decision.

As for Letang: I don't remember exactly what the talk was on these boards 5 years ago, but my impression of having watched him play at various levels was Letang was a guy who was clearly on another level and seemed that he was ready to play in the NHL virtually immediately. So if some people who hadn't watched him much didn't think he would be ready back then, that does not serve as evidence that Morrow will similarly be ready to play as early as Letang ended up doing.

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05-15-2012, 06:46 PM
  #938
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Originally Posted by GoGuins8711 View Post
There was no chance in hell Rogalski was getting a contract here.
Is a career -1000 not good?

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Old
05-15-2012, 08:12 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
What Letang did coming out of junior was special. He was a dynamic producer on a much less dynamic team than Morrow's Winterhawks and had the experience of two WJC golds, especially the last, where he was team captain and one of the two best defensemen in his age group in the world. Coach Craig Hartsburg, a great two-way NHL defenseman in his own right back in the day, was glowing about Letang's defense, too.

Meanwhile, Joe didn't even make the WJC team. The two really aren't comparable heading into their first pro seasons.

It's more reasonable to compare Morrow to Despres, and expect a similar path. Spend most of the year in WBS learning the nuances of the pro game, with call-ups if (when) the team sustains injuries on the back-end and needs a PMD type.
Go back and read the Letang thread I told you about. You will find plenty of people who were extremely worried about Letang's work in his own end and decision making. I wasn't the only one worried about his NHL readiness.

Letang didn't have to fight through the depth Morrow does, but as I said his talent will come through by the end of the season. I don't expect him on the big club in Oct.

Morrow is going to be a much more decisive player than Letang, I'll keep saying that over and over, because Morrow doesn't **** around like Letang.

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05-15-2012, 08:20 PM
  #940
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I like Despres, so don't get me wrong, but getting the call over a veteran like Picard is not much of a compliment, as the latter is a pretty lousy NHL player, with no upside within the organization. Bortuzzo's injury-riddled season and the fact that he plays the right-side and Despres being a lefty was also a factor in that decision.

As for Letang: I don't remember exactly what the talk was on these boards 5 years ago, but my impression of having watched him play at various levels was Letang was a guy who was clearly on another level and seemed that he was ready to play in the NHL virtually immediately. So if some people who hadn't watched him much didn't think he would be ready back then, that does not serve as evidence that Morrow will similarly be ready to play as early as Letang ended up doing.
Picard played well during his callups and Bort was ready if they needed him. I see it as a big vote of confidence in Despres.

As for Letang, all one has to do is watch him now and when he has those stretch of games where we all wonder wtf he is doing... Well he would do that on a routine basis in the Q. He was just so talented that for every dumb mistake, he made four or five great plays.

He is way more consistent now, but ppl forget what a spazz he was his first two years in Pgh. It's still in him and especially comes out on the PP.

Morrow is way more polished at this age... As talented, we shall see.

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05-15-2012, 09:18 PM
  #941
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Go back and read the Letang thread I told you about. You will find plenty of people who were extremely worried about Letang's work in his own end and decision making. I wasn't the only one worried about his NHL readiness.
I can't be accountable for all the people in that thread who mistakenly pigeonholed Letang as an offense-only defenseman that would take years to adjust. I can only be accountable for my own opinion, and I was firmly, outspokenly in the other camp.

Quote:
Morrow is going to be a much more decisive player than Letang, I'll keep saying that over and over, because Morrow doesn't **** around like Letang.
There are a lot of defensemen that come into the league more decisive than Letang. That, in and of itself, means very little regarding immediate NHL success, especially considering all the other variables in Letang's favour.

I like Morrow as much as anyone, I just think '13-'14 is a more reasonable target for him to make the full-time roster considering where he's at, and where the team is. He'll more likely see spot duty next year filling in for injuries, a la Despres this year.

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05-15-2012, 09:50 PM
  #942
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I can't be accountable for all the people in that thread who mistakenly pigeonholed Letang as an offense-only defenseman that would take years to adjust. I can only be accountable for my own opinion, and I was firmly, outspokenly in the other camp.
No one is asking you to be accountable for them. The point is many people felt he wasn't ready and I recall ppl making fun of a poster who watched a lot of Q hockey telling us Letang was NHL ready now and would be better than Whitney.

He was told he was ridiculous, unrealistic, putting the cart ahead of the horse, etc.

Well, he was right.

Quote:
There are a lot of defensemen that come into the league more decisive than Letang. That, in and of itself, means very little regarding immediate NHL success, especially considering all the other variables in Letang's favour.
That's great for whomever these other blueliners are, but in regards to Morrow his offensive game is NHL ready as well as his puck decisions. Again, positioning, footwork and zone assignments will be different in the Pens system. He will need time to learn that, which I have said could take a month or a year. No one knows, but given his hockey sense, I doubt it will take him long.

Quote:
I like Morrow as much as anyone, I just think '13-'14 is a more reasonable target for him to make the full-time roster considering where he's at, and where the team is. He'll more likely see spot duty next year filling in for injuries, a la Despres this year.
Not sure how that is any different than what I have been saying. I said he will be in the A because of Despres, Bortuzzo and Strait, but will make an impact by the end of the season.

I have said there is no way he spends 3 yrs in the A and I seriously doubt anyone believes he is on the opening day roster next season.

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05-15-2012, 10:02 PM
  #943
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I remember chatter that between Rogalski (the puck-mover) and McNeil (the shut-down guy) only one would end up getting signed. so does this signal the end of the road for Rogalski?
The end for Rogalski was a long time ago. His defensive game hasn't shown a lick of improvement and his offensive game stalled and then moved backwards.

Good to see McNeil get the contract, though. He's as pure of a DFD as they come...and we need a little of that right now. Who knows if he'll ever be able to make enough headway with all of the other defensive prospects here, but he's got three years to prove himself.

As for Morrow...count me in the 2013-14 camp. Even if he is good enough to play in the NHL in October I want him in WBS learning the system because him making the team is going to mean we'll be exposing one of the other youngsters to waivers. It's a good problem to have there, but the only way I want to see Morrow in Pittsburgh next year is if it's an injury replacement situation.

He's got enough holes in his defensive game that he needs to get worked out that it's not even a thought for me. I honestly would be very happy if we don't see him in Pittsburgh until October 2014.


As for all the Letang comparisons...Letang was trying to establish himself in a much shallower defensive pool, which helped him reach the show more quickly. None of us are happy with the defensive performance this season, but the fact remains we've got 8 guys on one-way deals and Simon Despres on a two-way ahead of him right now.

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05-15-2012, 10:13 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
No one is asking you to be accountable for them. The point is many people felt he wasn't ready and I recall ppl making fun of a poster who watched a lot of Q hockey telling us Letang was NHL ready now and would be better than Whitney.

He was told he was ridiculous, unrealistic, putting the cart ahead of the horse, etc.

Well, he was right.
That was probably me, based on the WJCs. fyug and I had it out on that subject more than a few times.

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He'll be on the big club next year, I'm sure of it. Odd phenomenon: most who've seen him play at the WJCs don't have the reservations about his defense that those who only saw his 7 game NHL debut last year have.
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I have no doubt that Letang will end up being the better of the two. Naturally, he's only proven himself against lower levels of competition, but there are aspects of his game that can already be easily identified as superior to Whitney's:

He makes smarter and quicker decisions with the puck, his stickhandling and escapability are superb, he has leadership ability, he actually shoots the puck in the offensive zone, and he plays in his own end as though he genuinely dislikes it when the opposition scores.

These aspects of his game will require some spit and polish before they're NHL quality effective, but all the tools are there. Really, the only thing he doesn't have is size.
EDIT: Yup.

Quote:
Not sure how that is any different than what I have been saying. I said he will be in the A because of Despres, Bortuzzo and Strait, but will make an impact by the end of the season.

I have said there is no way he spends 3 yrs in the A and I seriously doubt anyone believes he is on the opening day roster next season.
I was under the impression you pegged Morrow for a Letang-like ascent to the big club. If you figure he'll more likely see Despres-type spot duty, then we're on the same wavelength.


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Old
05-15-2012, 10:30 PM
  #945
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That was probably me, based on the WJCs. fyug and I had it out on that subject more than a few times.
No it was some French poster. Jacob told him he was ridiculous, SRH told him he was getting way too ahead of himself and to settle down...

I remember you saying Letang could jump in next season because he couldn't be any worse than Scuds or Melichar.

Quote:
I was under the impression you pegged Morrow for a Letang-like ascent to the big club. If you figure he'll more likely see Despres-type spot duty, then we're on the same wavelength.
I said he could step into the NHL right now, provided a quote from HFBOARDS top 50 prospects article echoing the same thing as me, but said he would have to play unreal to make it because of Despres, Strait and Bort.

I forgot to ask you your impression of Kuhn. You haven't said anything so probably not impressed, right?

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05-16-2012, 06:36 AM
  #946
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Shero's game plan is to hire good coaches and let players ripen in the minors. That wasn't really the case in the first few years when Staal made the team and Letang was brought up. Unless he changes his MO, Morrow will spend at least a year in the AHL if not more regardless of whether he looks good to the fans or not. At this point I could even see Despres starting next season in the AHL. We will see how it all shakes out in July. Shero's going to have to do his best imitation of Bob Barker, Let's make a deal!

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05-16-2012, 07:13 AM
  #947
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Shero's game plan is to hire good coaches and let players ripen in the minors. That wasn't really the case in the first few years when Staal made the team and Letang was brought up. Unless he changes his MO, Morrow will spend at least a year in the AHL if not more regardless of whether he looks good to the fans or not. At this point I could even see Despres starting next season in the AHL. We will see how it all shakes out in July. Shero's going to have to do his best imitation of Bob Barker, Let's make a deal!
He won't get the value back for Strait or Bort if he moves them in a trade.

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05-16-2012, 07:24 AM
  #948
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He won't get the value back for Strait or Bort if he moves them in a trade.
Anything is better than letting them walk for nothing. Both of them will have to pass through waivers next year and that's not very likely. If he doesn't see that either one is going to fit then a draft pick is better than nothing.

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05-16-2012, 07:34 AM
  #949
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Anything is better than letting them walk for nothing. Both of them will have to pass through waivers next year and that's not very likely. If he doesn't see that either one is going to fit then a draft pick is better than nothing.
I'd rather he move them, if he does, for close to NHL ready fwd prospects rather than waiting for more picks to develop.

It is possible they are moved in a bigger package, which is where they will add more value than packaged alone.

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05-16-2012, 08:22 AM
  #950
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For some reason, I am more inclined to believe that Lovejoy and another defenseman on the NHL roster will be moved at the draft. No proof. If we are looking to deal Strait and/or Bortuzzo to a team by themselves, I would say that Minnesota is where I would look. Maybe columbus now as well.

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