HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Fighting in Hockey

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-02-2012, 12:31 PM
  #1
phillyfanatic
Registered User
 
phillyfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,631
vCash: 500
Fighting in Hockey

Captures the views of many Flyer fans I assume.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Rob-S...tion/162/42740

phillyfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 12:51 PM
  #2
EvilAsh
Lockouts Rule!
 
EvilAsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 225
vCash: 500
Good article. Sadly I think within the next decade or so fighting will be taken out of hockey to an extent. Maybe instant game misconduct penalty or something. With the way the league is now, and the amount of attention it's getting from non-hockey fan media, I don't see it in the NHL's future. One thing that Bettman's doing that is right is understanding that the majority of fans want to see the fights. Sooner or later though fighting will be totally taken out of hockey and the players will just have to abide by the new NHL rules.

EvilAsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 01:01 PM
  #3
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,581
vCash: 500
Fighting will cut itself back with the extinction of the enforcer, but I don't see why it will...or should be taken out of the game. Players who play the game hard like Hartnell, Simmonds, etc. will still occasionally fight. Frustations will still lead to fights. And policing the game will still lead to fights, and they need to. With fighting outlawed, hockey will become more dangerous with the Marchands, Downies, Cookes, of the league.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 01:29 PM
  #4
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 15,378
vCash: 500
I do agree that goon/staged fights/hockey should be gone.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 01:38 PM
  #5
flountown
Registered User
 
flountown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,355
vCash: 500
I think they should eliminate fighting from Jr's as that would curb the goon farm from creating more and perpetuating the cycle of goons fighting goons.

flountown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 01:38 PM
  #6
EvilAsh
Lockouts Rule!
 
EvilAsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 225
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Fighting will cut itself back with the extinction of the enforcer, but I don't see why it will...or should be taken out of the game. Players who play the game hard like Hartnell, Simmonds, etc. will still occasionally fight. Frustations will still lead to fights. And policing the game will still lead to fights, and they need to. With fighting outlawed, hockey will become more dangerous with the Marchands, Downies, Cookes, of the league.
If fighting is outlawed I don't believe the game would be more dangerous. The Downie's and Cooke's of the league will be phased out with the fighting. And the game would have harsher penalties to stop the stick work and cheap shots. Also the younger leagues will have also outlawed fighting so the next generation of NHL players will not even know how it was to be able to fight. I'm all for fighting and I wouldn't have watched nearly as many out of market games without the excitement that a fight could break out, but sadly it will go away eventually.

EvilAsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 01:51 PM
  #7
Kaktus*
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 22,389
vCash: 500
leave it the way it is.

Kaktus* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 02:04 PM
  #8
flyersfan187
Registered User
 
flyersfan187's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Morrisdale, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,830
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to flyersfan187 Send a message via Skype™ to flyersfan187
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeryEvilAsh View Post
If fighting is outlawed I don't believe the game would be more dangerous. The Downie's and Cooke's of the league will be phased out with the fighting. And the game would have harsher penalties to stop the stick work and cheap shots. Also the younger leagues will have also outlawed fighting so the next generation of NHL players will not even know how it was to be able to fight. I'm all for fighting and I wouldn't have watched nearly as many out of market games without the excitement that a fight could break out, but sadly it will go away eventually.
I don't see them being phased out because they are still effective at playing hockey. Without fighting the players will feel that they can run around and do what they want out there on the ice, moreso then they do now. Its a bad idea to get rid of fighting.

flyersfan187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 02:39 PM
  #9
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
I don't see them being phased out because they are still effective at playing hockey. Without fighting the players will feel that they can run around and do what they want out there on the ice, moreso then they do now. Its a bad idea to get rid of fighting.
QFT. Most of the dangerous hitters and agitators in the league are also very effective hockey players. Even Kaleta and Avery play the game well.

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 02:46 PM
  #10
FlyersFanz
aut viam inveniam au
 
FlyersFanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: BlkVanOutsideUrHouse
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,957
vCash: 500
Take fighting out of hockey? Go play ringette or something. I don't condone fighting but sometimes it is necessary. NHL needs to cut back on clutching and grabbing calls that way players won't be lining up opponents and getting headshots resulting in concussions. Bettman keeps saying the game is faster with no clutching but the NHL is losing top notch players to bad checks and headshots, Bettman which one are you in favor of? A damaged NHL?

FlyersFanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 03:01 PM
  #11
CavemanLawyer
Registered User
 
CavemanLawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ocean City, MD
Posts: 1,111
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan187 View Post
I don't see them being phased out because they are still effective at playing hockey. Without fighting the players will feel that they can run around and do what they want out there on the ice, moreso then they do now. Its a bad idea to get rid of fighting.
Yeah cause college hockey is the dirtiest on the planet... Wait... No. And correct me if I'm wrong, fighting in college = ejection. Getting two fighting ejections in the year = auto 2 game suspension. Etc.

Yup, we see it every other sport - when guys aren't allowed to fight, it turns dirty... Wait no. Please. Only reason we think this is because the NHL doesn't suspend harshly because they let the players handle it... Stupidly. You are right though - Downie, Avery, Cooke all can play hockey. So yes, they will stay.

What I think will happen - NHL bans fighting, but bans everything. No after whistle face washes, no scrums, no nothing. Because of this, you get almost like an NBA/NFL/Rugby/*GASP* Professional atmosphere. Step over to scrum your thrown out and suspended instantly. It seems most just want fighitng to stop dirtiness. I mean, you pretty much say that here. So why not just have the NHL really stamp out dirtiness.

I honestly believe the reason the suspensions are still laughable is, as I stated earlier, because the refs do let a lot go after the whistle. A LOT. We see it all the time! Hartnell with a hard borderline hit... Hartnell gets mugged after a whistle behind the net - no call. Happens like clockwork. Hence why I can see the NHL with a no fighting, no nothing, after the whistle or harsh suspensions. I see nothing wrong with that. Find me another sport where attacking someone after a whistle is allowed... Yeah.

It's not wussification. People like me just have gotten tired of - shot, goalie covers puck, offensive player stops outside crease, scrum ensues cause he stopped 'too close to the goalie', players start slamming each other, punches, facewash, hits into the board, 5 minutes later- no penalties and faceoff... It's tiring watching this go on for an entire game for me now a days. But according to you they allow all that because if they don't it will just get too dirty... So kick out and suspend everyone involved. Quite simple. Maybe I'm just old at 24, haha, but this is just childish anymore.

Everyone says without fighting it turns dirty. In the current state, yes. Because the refs let so much go. So get rid of fighting, tell the refs to step up, kick up discipline and finished.

CavemanLawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 03:38 PM
  #12
phillyfanatic
Registered User
 
phillyfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,631
vCash: 500
I am on the fence about removing fighting from the NHL, but I would certainly continue to watch if they did remove it. Most of the best games (playoffs, big games, etc) usually have zero fighting. The Shelleys of the world don't dress for those games anyway.

However, fighting isn't the problem they need to address, it is the hitting with intent to injure. Mike Milbury had a good point on the Letang hit the other night, that wasn't a "suspendable play", but "it should be". The player who hit Letang made ZERO attempt to get the puck, he was just trying to lay Letang out.

For me, we will go the football route:
1. Penalty for hits targeting the head (already in place)
2. Penalty for unnecessary roughness (IE. Pretty much any hit Rinaldo makes)
3. 5 minute majors given for all MAJOR incidents. IE. Hitting from behind, boarding, charging, intentional stick infractions, elbow to the head, knee on knee. There may be more, but all those "intent to injure" infractions should result in a 5 minute major and an automatic ejection. Quickly, the players will think twice before ending a guys career.

Crosby, Toews, Backstrom, Giroux, Pronger, Letang, Richards, Miller, Schenn, etc, etc. The best players in the game are who make this game. Change the rules to protect them. The NHL immediately changed the rules to protect the QB once Brady got hit to the knee. We need to change the rules. Fighting IMO, is not the problem right now.

I remember how folks used to LOVE and applaude Scott Stevens for his "clean" hits. I always considered him everything that was wrong with hockey. Noboby should be allowed to end a guys career "within the rules". Change the rules.

phillyfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 04:24 PM
  #13
EvilAsh
Lockouts Rule!
 
EvilAsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 225
vCash: 500
All the bad NHL talk and then I read this today:

NFL Bounty Pool.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.T1FIUIcgdj4

EvilAsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 04:40 PM
  #14
RevUpThoseGolfCarts
Experts at losing
 
RevUpThoseGolfCarts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 1,810
vCash: 500
Fighting will never be taken out of the NHL

Wouldn't mind a "helmets on" rule though. And removable visors

RevUpThoseGolfCarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 05:04 PM
  #15
Flyerfan808
Registered User
 
Flyerfan808's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,002
vCash: 500
Many of his points are right on. The "Mainstream" arguement sounds fanatical and is way off topic.

"It means celebrities (bleh) who really don’t like the game, showing up to show up."
>This already happens.

"It means unqualified broadcasters insulting the intelligence of the core audience on pregame and postgame shows, to appease the non-core audience."
>This also already happens.

"It means, instead of 5% of the players being prima donnas, 90% will be prima donnas."
>This is bogus overexaggeration. Hockey players, by and large, have very humble attitudes. I attribute this to the culture of the game where having an ego, showboating, and trash talk puts a target on your back, not just from your opponents but also from your teammates. While it's true that hockey becoming more "mainstream" may swell the ego's of some players, certainly it will not be 90% of them, I would argue that hockey becoming more "mainstream," will not impact so many player's attitudes as the author might suggest.

"It means nervous women who resemble constipated hookers doing interviews with coaches on the bench. “what do you have to do differently in the 2nd period?”"
>Ignoring how sexist and ignorant this statement is (like on the same level as Mel Gibson)... This, ALSO already happens!

Instead of arguing against the game becoming more "mainstream." Argue against the idea that fighting drives people away from the game. I would just as soon argue that fighting actually attracts more people to the sport than it draws away. I've only met 3 people who were ever put off by the fighting. Most of the people whom I've introduced the game to eventually learned to accept it as "part of the sport."

Flyerfan808 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 05:31 PM
  #16
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 450
The NFL is facing something like 700 lawsuits over the concussion/CTE issue. The NHL is going to have to face facts and realize that fighting causes concussions, and repeated concussions cause CTE, and either be ready to pay out the nose from the inevitable wave of lawsuits, or ban fighting. I'm guessing they'll go the latter route, which I'm fine with. Fights are just extra time to go to the bathroom.

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 05:38 PM
  #17
sobrien
RAFFLCOPTER
 
sobrien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Jersey/Memphis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeryEvilAsh View Post
All the bad NHL talk and then I read this today:

NFL Bounty Pool.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.T1FIUIcgdj4
growing up watching the Eagles defense of the 80s and 90s, I actually like that. I'm quite bitter about the defense being screwed over with the new NFL rules.

On "Costas Tonight", Bob had David Stern and Gary Bettman on at the same time to talk about their respective sports, but the last 10 mins was just Bettman, and the fighting issue was brought up, as well as the pressure from Ken Dryden for Bettman to be "the guy" to be ahead of the curve and removing fighting for safety reasons. But I recommend checking it out if anyone can. I think Bettman does a lot better than he gets credit for.

I don't get it...How many concussions are caused from fights that we know about? Maybe 2 per year? The concussions are coming from dangerous hits and contact which stem from a multitude of things, some intentional and some not. Players about to drop the gloves know exactly what they're getting into. Players going into the corner to play the puck have no idea what the opposing defender will do...

sobrien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 05:59 PM
  #18
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,564
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
The NFL is facing something like 700 lawsuits over the concussion/CTE issue. The NHL is going to have to face facts and realize that fighting causes concussions, and repeated concussions cause CTE, and either be ready to pay out the nose from the inevitable wave of lawsuits, or ban fighting. I'm guessing they'll go the latter route, which I'm fine with. Fights are just extra time to go to the bathroom.
How many concussions have been caused by fighting?

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 06:01 PM
  #19
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,048
vCash: 50
Staged fighting : take it out

fighting : no

Krishna is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 06:16 PM
  #20
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
How many concussions have been caused by fighting?
Ask Derek Boogaard.

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 06:23 PM
  #21
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,564
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Ask Derek Boogaard.
By this logic all professional fighters should be dead before they're 40.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 06:51 PM
  #22
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
By this logic all professional fighters should be dead before they're 40.
How many boxers do you think would be found to have CTE if they had their brains tested after death?

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 07:02 PM
  #23
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,564
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
How many boxers do you think would be found to have CTE if they had their brains tested after death?
Who knows? Boxing involves a lot more repeated blows to the head than being a hockey enforcer though, so it wouldn't prove much when it comes to fighting in hockey.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 07:08 PM
  #24
MountainHawk
Registered User
 
MountainHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salem, MA
Country: Vanuatu
Posts: 12,771
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Who knows? Boxing involves a lot more repeated blows to the head than being a hockey enforcer though, so it wouldn't prove much when it comes to fighting in hockey.
Yeah, the fact that three enforcers died this summer was a complete coincidence, as well as the fact that Boogaard and Probert both had CTE.

Don't fool yourself. Hockey fights kill people. It takes time, but it does kill people.

MountainHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-02-2012, 07:38 PM
  #25
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,514
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
Fighting will cut itself back with the extinction of the enforcer, but I don't see why it will...or should be taken out of the game. Players who play the game hard like Hartnell, Simmonds, etc. will still occasionally fight. Frustations will still lead to fights. And policing the game will still lead to fights, and they need to. With fighting outlawed, hockey will become more dangerous with the Marchands, Downies, Cookes, of the league.
Well said. I just hope to God I am not around to see that day when fighting is banned.

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.